why do I feel the melee combat feels bad in Enshrouded?

[Bongoboy]

For some reason I can't shake the feeling that Enshrouded's melee combat doesn't feel as "deep" as other games where I liked the melee combat. But looking at those games... they did not have a much deeper melee combat either.

Valheim basically has the same system of "timed block", "stance broken" and then simply slashing enemies. Valheim's weapons have some special attacks, but so does Enshrouded.

Grounded is very similar. You can use a shield, but if you do a "timed block" you not get any negative effect like you would by just holding block. It has a similar system where you can "break enemies" and do more damage to them.

So why does Enshrouded feels more button mashy?

[Midir]

Escrito originalmente por Urk_da_WAAAGH!:

Escrito originalmente por Midir:

The auto targeting is ruining it for me. The moment I attack, my character just teleports to enemy hitbox ruining all spacing I so carefully considered. Adding an option to disable it would be nice.

There is

Really where?

[Midir]

Escrito originalmente por Urk_da_WAAAGH!:

Escrito originalmente por Midir:

The auto targeting is ruining it for me. The moment I attack, my character just teleports to enemy hitbox ruining all spacing I so carefully considered. Adding an option to disable it would be nice.

There is

I tested camera/character targeting settings and nothing changed about targeting assist. Character still sticks to enemy.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

lack of real combo's, lack of heavy vs light attacks, no power swings, doesn't feel like it has much impact when you hit things, hit stun is a thing, delay on blocking/parrying, I mean take your pick here.

It's designed to be a button mash experience its not a souls game and it doesn't really require that kind of mechanic skill anyway. I mean most enemies have what? One or two attacks? Most bosses have maybe two or three attacks tops.

[Bongoboy]

Escrito originalmente por gerald2:

in my case its very har dfor me to determine when enemy hit to stagger em with parry...and those rolls..i dunno if its about controls ,in valheim it worked flawlesly ,here in most cases i roll forward toward enemy ...

Yeah.

In Valheim every zone has just one enemy type, that exists in 3 variation. So they all have the same one attack pattern. But the responsiveness of the controls are tight, you just see the attack coming, clear telegraph.
It is also possible to use the roll to evade a attack... and in Valheim it is even a button combination to roll so it should be harder... but it isn't.

In Grounded there are enemy types, like spiders as example. If you look carefully the small spiderlings use the exact 2 or 3 basic attacks all the bigger spiders use as well. The next bigger spider Orb Weaver Jr uses those 2-3 basic attacks plus 1 or 2 new attacks. Orb Weaver the next bigger one uses all the attacks of each of the lower spiders, plus 1 or 2 more.
By the time you face the Black Widow... you got used to all of those attacks and if the Black Widow chooses one of those you will parry her. Until she pulls her 1 or 2 new attacks.

I played both games, I played Sekiro and I had in none of those games issues to parry. Just in Enshrouded I have. I see the attack coming press... and get hit. You literally have to press in a very tiny window, or it hits you.

Escrito originalmente por Grumpy Old Guy:

lack of real combo's, lack of heavy vs light attacks, no power swings, doesn't feel like it has much impact when you hit things, hit stun is a thing, delay on blocking/parrying, I mean take your pick here.

It's designed to be a button mash experience its not a souls game and it doesn't really require that kind of mechanic skill anyway. I mean most enemies have what? One or two attacks? Most bosses have maybe two or three attacks tops.

I don't expect a Dark Souls game here, really. Not every game needs to be hard and challenging.
But I would expect enemies to maybe have some strategy, like maybe the Scavengers are all very aggressively and the best way to beat them is by parrying them.
The enemies in the Enshrouded zones can maybe not be interrupted, so hitting them doesn't prevent them from suddenly starting to attack you.

But if you put a timed parry system in, it should not feel laggy with a timing that feels off.

[Imhotep]

Escrito originalmente por Bongoboy:

For some reason I can't shake the feeling that Enshrouded's melee combat doesn't feel as "deep" as other games where I liked the melee combat. But looking at those games... they did not have a much deeper melee combat either.

Valheim basically has the same system of "timed block", "stance broken" and then simply slashing enemies. Valheim's weapons have some special attacks, but so does Enshrouded.

Grounded is very similar. You can use a shield, but if you do a "timed block" you not get any negative effect like you would by just holding block. It has a similar system where you can "break enemies" and do more damage to them.

So why does Enshrouded feels more button mashy?

Because you're too focused on your shield.

I jump, smash with two handed weapons. Everything dies. It's scary. Big beasty jumpin at you with a mallet doing +80% damage just from the two perks.

[Artyoan]

Melee combat overall feels alright to me but enemy health at level 25+ seems bloated. I would like to see a lot more enemies present but with much less health each. As it is now, I'm often ending up in one on one combat but having to parry each one several times or just stagger lock them with 8+ strikes.

The green machete aggressive guys I'm parrying up to 10 times to finally get a kill on them in pure melee.

[Valravn]

Let's just say a complete overhaul of the close combat system would be highly appreciated I think.
Could be me I dunno, but if the dev's won't do it, it's a waste of a lot of potential for the game I think.
For some reason survival games have terrible combat systems, if they do it well it would set them apart in a positive way from all the others imho.

[Imhotep]

Escrito originalmente por Artyoan:

Melee combat overall feels alright to me but enemy health at level 25+ seems bloated. I would like to see a lot more enemies present but with much less health each. As it is now, I'm often ending up in one on one combat but having to parry each one several times or just stagger lock them with 8+ strikes.

The green machete aggressive guys I'm parrying up to 10 times to finally get a kill on them in pure melee.

I kill enemies level 30 in around 1-2 hits with melee. Big enemies in 2-4 hits and bosses in like 8-10.

Odd how people say Melee is weak.

You can also use a tooth, (two hander 96 dmg) and jump bash the hardest boss at lvl 30 in 3 hits.

I also have no issues blocking on time, dodging or anything like that.

Ps. the shields don't do much, two handers block just the same.

[EverTrek1701]

melee and magic seem to work fine.

[Holonaut]

Enshrouded feels ridiculous because of the ridiculous animations. In games where you have to hit a lot like Valheim and Skyrim, you want a very BASIC animation for normal attacks. In the case of Skyrim they have both of best worlds, basic attacks and awesome finishers with ragdoll enabled.

In Enshrouded all weapon types I've used so far, have the same exaggerated dumb animation. Huge left cleave, huge right cleave, 360 noscope. Any game which has this animation as their basic attack feels very dull. It's like using Comic Sans in your presentation, or green font on a green background. It violates basic design principles.

[Imhotep]

Escrito originalmente por Holonaut:

Enshrouded feels ridiculous because of the ridiculous animations. In games where you have to hit a lot like Valheim and Skyrim, you want a very BASIC animation for normal attacks. In the case of Skyrim they have both of best worlds, basic attacks and awesome finishers with ragdoll enabled.

In Enshrouded all weapon types I've used so far, have the same exaggerated dumb animation. Huge left cleave, huge right cleave, 360 noscope. Any game which has this animation as their basic attack feels very dull. It's like using Comic Sans in your presentation, or green font on a green background. It violates basic design principles.

You're comparing immersion of enshrouded (Baby Advanced Minecraft) to a super immersive game like skyrim where npcs and what not have conversations with you.

Combat is just fine.

It doesn't violate anything as i'm perfectly fine and not violated and it works great for me.

If the combat felt super dull, when people took their first swing and or bow shot and or magical spell cast, they woulda just put the game down.

Many things factor into what you stated that make no sense for this game.

[Holonaut]

Escrito originalmente por Imhotep:

Escrito originalmente por Holonaut:

Enshrouded feels ridiculous because of the ridiculous animations. In games where you have to hit a lot like Valheim and Skyrim, you want a very BASIC animation for normal attacks. In the case of Skyrim they have both of best worlds, basic attacks and awesome finishers with ragdoll enabled.

In Enshrouded all weapon types I've used so far, have the same exaggerated dumb animation. Huge left cleave, huge right cleave, 360 noscope. Any game which has this animation as their basic attack feels very dull. It's like using Comic Sans in your presentation, or green font on a green background. It violates basic design principles.

You're comparing immersion of enshrouded (Baby Advanced Minecraft) to a super immersive game like skyrim where npcs and what not have conversations with you.

Combat is just fine.

It doesn't violate anything as i'm perfectly fine and not violated and it works great for me.

If the combat felt super dull, when people took their first swing and or bow shot and or magical spell cast, they woulda just put the game down.

Many things factor into what you stated that make no sense for this game.

I was comparing the very basic attack animation of a game like Skyrim or Valheim - which is deliberately very basic because you do it thousands of times. The most repetitive actions in a game should be the least fancy ones.

Doing a 360 spin on every third attack, and on any weapon type, is bad design no matter what genre you're in. Especially when this is the ONLY type of attack you can do.

I refunded the game after 90 minutes because of this. Great if the game feels good for you, but don't come into a thread where people are literally complaining about the combat feeling weird and say "there's no problem here"

[Imhotep]

Escrito originalmente por Holonaut:

Escrito originalmente por Imhotep:

You're comparing immersion of enshrouded (Baby Advanced Minecraft) to a super immersive game like skyrim where npcs and what not have conversations with you.

Combat is just fine.

It doesn't violate anything as i'm perfectly fine and not violated and it works great for me.

If the combat felt super dull, when people took their first swing and or bow shot and or magical spell cast, they woulda just put the game down.

Many things factor into what you stated that make no sense for this game.

I was comparing the very basic attack animation of a game like Skyrim or Valheim - which is deliberately very basic because you do it thousands of times.

Doing a 360 spin on every third attack, and on any weapon type, is bad design no matter what genre you're in. Especially when this is the ONLY type of attack you can do.

I refunded the game after 90 minutes because of this. Great if the game feels good for you, but don't come into a thread where people are literally complaining about the combat feeling weird and say "there's no problem here"

I came into the thread because you compared the game to Skyrim. They are two totally different games. Skyrim isn't a building game and doesn't have the same type of mechanics at all.

There's no problem here.

[Outlaw Mugen]

Escrito originalmente por Bongoboy:

For some reason I can't shake the feeling that Enshrouded's melee combat doesn't feel as "deep" as other games where I liked the melee combat. But looking at those games... they did not have a much deeper melee combat either.

Valheim basically has the same system of "timed block", "stance broken" and then simply slashing enemies. Valheim's weapons have some special attacks, but so does Enshrouded.

Grounded is very similar. You can use a shield, but if you do a "timed block" you not get any negative effect like you would by just holding block. It has a similar system where you can "break enemies" and do more damage to them.

So why does Enshrouded feels more button mashy?

Because it is bad.

Same animations for every weapon, no point of using for example maces or axes ( even Skyrim had differences ; swords cause bleeding, axes penetrated shields and maces could stun or penetrate armour ).

Enemies have POISE ( they do not flinch when player attacks them, yet our character gets interrupted by the smallest of attacks ).

Parry is a joke ( even with all the skills put to parry and armour ) By the time I can do merciless attack on dual wielding green guys, they are already low on HP. Timings for parry are a whack, sound is unsatisfying and why the heck there is a PARRY LOADING BAR?! At this point i just block, attack : Rinse and repeat.

Don't get me even started on how useless evasion / jump attacks are ( consume too much stamina, don't even do enough extra damage and quite often they will miss... )

The combat starts of easy enough but by the time you fight lvl 30 mobs in the end zone it becomes hectic button masher.... literally run / hit / run ( to avoid getting stunlocked by groups of enemies ).

I get a feeling this game was intended to have multiple players ( 1 healer, 1 tank , 1 melee two handed damage dealer, 1 range unit )... Then I could somehow understand this floaty action combat. However as someone who played solo through entire game.... the combat and skills need a rework ( also don't like the fact that Trait points and Skills are not separate ).

[Artyoan]

Escrito originalmente por Imhotep:

Escrito originalmente por Artyoan:

Melee combat overall feels alright to me but enemy health at level 25+ seems bloated. I would like to see a lot more enemies present but with much less health each. As it is now, I'm often ending up in one on one combat but having to parry each one several times or just stagger lock them with 8+ strikes.

The green machete aggressive guys I'm parrying up to 10 times to finally get a kill on them in pure melee.

I kill enemies level 30 in around 1-2 hits with melee. Big enemies in 2-4 hits and bosses in like 8-10.

Odd how people say Melee is weak.

You can also use a tooth, (two hander 96 dmg) and jump bash the hardest boss at lvl 30 in 3 hits.

I also have no issues blocking on time, dodging or anything like that.

Ps. the shields don't do much, two handers block just the same.

Part of it is itemization and perks. Most of my stats are heavy in the stamina related ranged attacks with partial into the melee part. My armor is light armor with ranged perks.

But I use both bow attacks and melee and switch between the two depending on the enemy or whatever I feel like doing at the moment.

I supplement strength with food but even doubling my melee attack damage isn't going to kill things in 1-2 hits.