Shroud is irrelevant

['norabseven]

The shroud should do more to your character for being inside it, and then we should have more potions/foods that reduce the effects as currently shroud is just a timer for death and almost pointless as the timer is so long, there is no fear or reason to not go into it, other than the shroud that kills you if your flame isn't high enough level that is.

What the shroud should be is a debuff to your character based on it's flame-level-entry-requirement and then each flame level should reduce these debuffs making it easier.

Could add in a increasing effect of debuffs based on time left in the shroud, so running out of time isn't just "oops your dead" and more "it's getting to high an effect to survive".

Also just remove the Shroud-Flame-Level-Gate-Death type shroud mechanic, with debuffs on shroud level vs flame level it should just debuff you into the ground but allow you to be in it, if you need to chug health pots to survive so be it, having a Shroud-Death-Area is kind of boring.

Anyway an example of how each level of shroud could affect your gameplay in some way could be:
- Damage Player once every X seconds or something, so that it's a constant threat.
- Reduce standard Health, Stamina, Mana regen, need potions/skills to regen.
- More damage taken by enemy attacks.
- Enemies constantly spawning around you. More or Harder versions depending on shroud level
- Hallucinations of enemies that chase and attack you for zero damage but look real, so constant threat when mixed in with standard enemies.
- Friendly Fire (at high shroud levels or low timer values) kind of like you or your friends are being taken over by the shroud and can no longer tell friend from foe, could be distance based, the farther you are the more enemy like they appear

If there is a constant threat in the shroud there could be benefits added also, like Shroud-Ore which when refined if 2x it's non-shroud version, better loot drops (loot is terrible but that's a different story) there is loads that can be added.

The shroud currently is just a dark area of the map, that has a timer, nothing more.

Given that the shroud is supposed to be the core thing in the game lore it's just irrelevant.

EDIT:
(I'll add one of my comments here so people don't comment "I don't want it harder" etc anymore)
I'm not bothered about it being harder or easier, I just want more agency, more something interesting about the shroud, just something.

Currently it's just a timer that when it expires you go *poof*, that is not a very engaging mechanic and I'd like to see anyone defend it as a "mechanic".

What I'm suggesting could be super easy things, things that don't need any skills or mega strategies to get around but if you're not careful or paying attention they will very much get in the way.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Sabamonster:

Originally posted by Cuchilain:

I dont know how much youve played. Probably not enough yet. Early on its not much of a problem, but later its much larger areas on the map. Its very hard to navigate through, and in later areas falling into it without knowing how to get out is death. In some places 10 minutes isnt long enough to find a way out. Going the wrong way to a dead end is certain death.
60 hours in with potions and scrolls to enhance my time and im still nervous to enter the shroud beneath the highlands. The iron mine is packed with enemies in the shroud and its certain death if you dont know the exit. many places the shoud is so big that it is important to find and clear the root so you can recuperate your shoud resistance.

This. Once you've reached a certain point in the game the Shroud becomes a huge deterrent. I actively look for areas on the map I can bypass it (If I don't NEED to venture into it directly) because one misstep means you're dead. There's tons of canyons that instantly drain your timer that are nearly impossible to see under certain circumstances. It's incredibly easy to get lost, hung up and there are more times than I can count where I thought "I'll have plenty of time" and end up running out of stamina trying to get back out only to die. The areas get huge and cover entire swathes of land. Couple that with the fact that we can do absolutely nothing about it aside from reduce it in very specific areas and it's plenty dangerous. Personally, I think it's fine just the way it is.

Disagree.
The shroud deters my be having nothing i want in it. Its not really deterring my with the timer and i use neither of the 3 shroud time prolonger you could (ranger, flat time, warrior + on kill, mage + on cast).

Not getting lost or beeing able to read a map is a player skill you can train. At worst, you can put down markers.
I haven't ever ran out of shroud timer w.o. touching red floor shroud.

That beeing said if op's ideas only kick in after the timer ran out, why bother?
The only case where i can see them making a bit sense is for going into what would be lethal due to too high shroud.
For kicking in right at the start, they all are kind of bad. Simply not viable if you consider both, SP and MP as well as each class.

[captainamaziiing]

I've already found a mod to turn the Shroud timer off. It was taking that part of the game from 'fun' to 'extremely not fun and something I have less than zero interest in.' Since so much of the game is gated behind a miserable experience, it was taking my eventual review from a 9.1 down to a 5.9. If I can't reach the content, it gets a zero. Turning off the timer made the Shroud mostly fine again. Not done leveling my toon, but we are back in the 8.9 range, which is outstanding for a two week old EA title. I'm a tough reviewer.

Not being able to see is plenty of reason to avoid the Shroud. I seriously don't understand why so many game devs think video games should be hard to see. Video, from the Latin Vizier, meaning 'to see'. When I want audio games I play my guitar.

As soon as the mod comes out that erases, or at least diminishes the fog so i can see, I'll be using it. Overall a truly great game, but the Shroud, while an interesting concept, is not fitting well with my preferred play style.

The fact that the roots keep regrowing and my efforts to clear the Shroud (which is ostensibly the entire story line for the game) mean nothing, kind of takes all the fervor out of trying to eliminate the Shroud.

Hopefully they make it possible to actually do what Flameborns do, and eventually save my world from the Shroud.

[Samro]

Originally posted by Foxglovez:

How bout just accepting it for what it is? Maybe not a game that scratches your itch because what you really want is a hard mode specifically for yourself, to be perfect for you... Kind of unlikely.

goofy take

[cachmandrake]

My criticism of the shroud:

- Roots don't stay gone. A safe spot inside shrouded areas would be great. (I realize that this is probably so that every player on a server gets their skill point, but I'm pretty sure something can be done about that).
- Limited loot. When I have to go into a shrouded area I eyeroll because finding more cloth, bones and blue ♥♥♥♥ has become an annoyance.
- The fog makes it unfairly difficult to see if you're going into a lethal zone until its too late. (granted, this could be because of my limited graphic settings).
- The map is really bad when it comes to altitude, it makes it really hard to identify routes of entrance/exit to a frustrating level. (this is not exclusive to shroud areas)
- Enemy difficulty is fine, shield guy can take a long walk off a short pier, tho. I've noticed that there's an over-reliance on big crowds of enemies, specially later in the game. There are almost no effective crowd control measures in the game to account for this (and before anyone says it, explodey balls barely make a dent in terms of damage).
- The only times I've actually felt pressured by the timer were inside a couple of the dungeon-esque zones, I think the design of shrouded areas should lean more heavily on this direction.

[biosmonkey]

When I first started this game and discovered the shroud roots, I thought "aha thats how we get rid of the shroud". But no ... it does nothing other than give you 1 skill point and a safe area for that session. Relog and they're all back.

The shroud being nothing more than a gimmick to kill you if you get lost does become tedious and annoying after awhile. Having larger shrouded areas with more maze-like paths is not an engaging way to increase challenge.

IMO the best solution is a hybrid:
- the higher areas of shroud should not just kill you outright - they tick the timer faster.
- upgrading your Altar slows the tick, maybe 20% per level
- inside the higher shroud areas you have higher enemies and higher rewards to make traversing it meaningful. If you really want a higher challenge, then risk it for the reward.
- once you kill a root it STAYS GONE and clears the shroud.

This is the one that really gets me - why would they not do this and make you feel like you are actually progressing in your quest to rid the world of this stuff?

Unfortunately I don't know that any of this will matter - I think they backed themselves into a corner with the "world reset" so that nothing you do in the world actually changes anything. I want to see my progress and efforts on the map with cleared areas (and see what's left).

At the end of the day it's still a fun game - but I have to ask myself - WHY am I doing all this?

[Hazel]

The roots come back so other people can get the skill points.

[biosmonkey]

Originally posted by Sey:

The roots come back so other people can get the skill points.

But this is a problem I have with the design. Don't tie skill points to something so specific like a shroud root. Just make them worth a certain amount of XP.

Having them grant skill points to some people and not others just seems - messy. Would it not be better if *everyone* could benefit from clearing roots if they just gave XP ?

[Danyel]

Nah shroud is fine as is. There other more important stuff for them to work on right now.

[[STD]Random Lead]

Agree with most. All but reduced hp while in the shroud. Basically other than a fog of war the shrouds should have a purpose beyond shroud wood. I would say start with a 3 minute timer as 5 is super generous. Shroud timers should be a goal not a right.

I love the constant enemies spawning but I would say halve their xp but make them more difficult. Allows xp farming but at a cost of character life and item durabilities.

The hp degen sounds interesting as it would need prep to counter. Berries are everywhere for low level shrouds but higher difficulty shrouds should require better hp regen to counter.

Some will say this makes the game harder which is true but not difficult. Just takes gameplay to overcome. You are already farming mats and making items so give that purpose.

[chaosonex]

Really ,the shroud needs to keep levels, but not timer's uniformly.

Ideally, the player always hovers around 5-6 min of shroud time, if not less

[Hooch]

Originally posted by tmaddox:

I disagree. I have died many times to the shroud due to getting turned around in the limited visibility and simply running out of time before I found a viable exit.

You should never die in the shroud due to the timer, Never.

Simply press ESC and go back to the Main Menu. Enter the game again and you'll be back at your base.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

The shroud is supposed to gate of certain areas so you can't go there until you've progressed more, it's not meant to be an actual threat.

The problem is the shroud doesn't actually gate anything.

There's nothing stopping you from scaling the wall that separates the plains from the starting area and just going directly to the desert.

You can basically skip crafting literally everything and go directly to end game gear and weapons because the chests that drop them are just out in the open with no actual dungeon to work through.

If I had to point out one really massive flaw its that there are golden chests that just drop the strongest gear in the game and you don't have to do anything to farm them other than drop an alter next to them.

Those things should be buried in a dungeon you have to fight through to reach and the crafted weapons should absolutely be stronger.

[chaosonex]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

The shroud is supposed to gate of certain areas so you can't go there until you've progressed more, it's not meant to be an actual threat.

The problem is the shroud doesn't actually gate anything.

There's nothing stopping you from scaling the wall that separates the plains from the starting area and just going directly to the desert.

You can basically skip crafting literally everything and go directly to end game gear and weapons because the chests that drop them are just out in the open with no actual dungeon to work through.

If I had to point out one really massive flaw its that there are golden chests that just drop the strongest gear in the game and you don't have to do anything to farm them other than drop an alter next to them.

Those things should be buried in a dungeon you have to fight through to reach and the crafted weapons should absolutely be stronger.

tin is the only material I can think of that is actually only in the shroud

(that you use the smelter for)

Iron exists above the shroud line in sooo may places

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by chaosonex:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

The shroud is supposed to gate of certain areas so you can't go there until you've progressed more, it's not meant to be an actual threat.

The problem is the shroud doesn't actually gate anything.

There's nothing stopping you from scaling the wall that separates the plains from the starting area and just going directly to the desert.

You can basically skip crafting literally everything and go directly to end game gear and weapons because the chests that drop them are just out in the open with no actual dungeon to work through.

If I had to point out one really massive flaw its that there are golden chests that just drop the strongest gear in the game and you don't have to do anything to farm them other than drop an alter next to them.

Those things should be buried in a dungeon you have to fight through to reach and the crafted weapons should absolutely be stronger.

tin is the only material I can think of that is actually only in the shroud

(that you use the smelter for)

Iron exists above the shroud line in sooo may places

Tin does too if you know where to go there's actually nothing in the shroud you can't get outside of it.

[chaosonex]

I know a few places to get amber without going into the shroud itself, but they require digging down to skim the shroud line


back on the main topic, I agree the shroud needs more reason to go, and more of that... barely holding on feel