Combat and skills need an overhaul

[Macabrebob]

I want to start by saying that there are a lot of things I very much enjoy about this game. For one, the building system is simple and powerful. I believe it is the best of its type in any survival game out there. The art style is fantastic. I'm a huge fan of the reds and blues combined with the shroud. The music has been nothing but excellent along with most of the sound design. I'm especially a fan of the way the wand projectiles sound. That being said, there are some major issues. The biggest is optimization, but everyone knows that. I'm here to talk about another big problem.

The combat in this game feels very clunky. Sometimes I can cancel animations with block. Sometimes I can't, probably because it is on cooldown. Blocking and parrying in general feel bad. When you block there is a cooldown before you can block again, which is not okay in a game with parries and is made worse by a couple big problems.

-The cooldown is not consistent. I can spam right click and the time between block animations varies quite a bit.

-You can't hold the block button down if you press it before the random cooldown is up. When I let go of block then click to block again before the random cooldown is up, I have to let go of the block button and try again. This feels awful. You should be able to simply hold the block button down and when the cooldown is over you will block. Instead I am trying to spam the block button only to achieve a block and immediately let it go by accident. This puts me into a loop of trying to achieve a block or parry and never getting anything. Combine that with the fact that the block animation for a two-handed weapon is hardly noticeable during combat and it is a frustrating experience.

Some other things that are bothersome and make for a clunky experience:

- I have to spam left click. Why? I could understand not being able to hold left click down if there were some kind of charge attack or different attack buttons. Like heavy and light, but as far as I know, there isn't. That is not the worst of it though. Unlike blocks the game queues up attack animations so I have to wait for that extra pickaxe swing that I didn't want before I can move or jump. I also have to wait for that extra attack to finish before I can use merciless attack.

-Merciless attack should trump all other actions. The prompt should show up immediately when you overpower an enemy and it should cancel any other actions when you activate a merciless attack. As it stands I have to wait for any attacks to finish. Then I have to weirdly wait about a half second more. Then the prompt will show up. Usually it would have been faster just to keep spamming left click.

-Double jump timing is weird. There seems to be some random timer that activates after the first jump and if you down jump again before the random timer expires you are going to glide. Most of the time into red fungus. This also interferes with the double jump attack.

-Jump attacking is not fun. Even though it is a powerful skill it doesn't feel that way. Maybe because my character will hover for a smidgen when he gets body blocked in mid air by the things I am trying to attack. Maybe it is because sometimes I end up gliding instead of double jumping sometimes. It just doesn't feel impactful.

-Wand combat is boring. Walk backwards > spam left click > maybe roll sometimes > win. At least bows have ammo types and aim capability. Magic attacks from staves are disappointingly unimpressive. From the way the staff charges to the actual visual effects.

-The skill tree is . Aside from a few cool nodes the rest of the stats should be on your equipment.

-Every weapon of the same class has the same attack animation sequence.

-Enemy A.I. is pretty bad. They will chase you right up to a bush you crouched into, close enough to chest bump you then turn around and walk away. They will stand below you and look up while you spam left click them in the face with a wand instead of walking up the ramp 15 feet to their right.

-Stealth is poorly done. Erratic enemy pathing combined with line of sight only being a thing sometimes make it frustrating. Pulling aggro then running into a bush is not my idea of fun stealth gameplay but it is currently the most effective. I also have trouble telling which way the enemy is facing in this game, much more so than any other game. Might just be me but it is a weird one.

After seeing how the skills I've unlocked work the rest of the skill tree just looks bad to me. I admittedly have not tried most of them, but if the fundamentals are this off then everyone built on top must be in rough shape. In fact I most recently found myself trying to plan a build that would allow me to just stand in one spot and spam left click to kill and heal so that I had the least amount of interaction with skills and combat related movement as possible. That is what brought me here to type this. Like I said, there are a lot of great things about this game and I see awesome potential here. Here is hoping my feedback helps in some way.

[Seyton]

I agree with all the mechanical complaints, combat could be tuned up to be more responsive. I've also noticed animations and animation cancelling is weird, not responsive, and like you say it feels like something hidden there is influencing when you can and can't block/dodge/attack.

Also agree that weapons/magic feels samey. There isn't any real difference between this giant two handed axe I got and this faster sword, because the damage values don't match properly and there isn't combos to play around with. So just go for highest DPS and mash M1. I was also disappointed by staffs not having bigger more fun spells.

For the skills though I feel like its a good start. The Dev said this is their first demo and they want another demo launch in October which will aim to add a lot more content, so hopefully this is all just a chance for them to see how people respond to the basic systems how they exist now, but more content is coming to expand them.

[Inquisitor Firebrand]

my complaint is having that two handed spin attack on tools why is it even there?

[Seyton]

Originally posted by Inquisitor Firebrand:

my complaint is having that two handed spin attack on tools why is it even there?

Sometimes you just gotta 360 noscope a rock

[ShouteN]

You are expecting dark souls combat in early access survival game.

[Foxglovez]

Animation cancelling should never exist as it's a glitch, especially in a game like this. See any leaderboards here? Didn't think so. It's a fools' errand. Let the devs actually work on important stuff.

[Seyton]

Originally posted by Foxglovez:

Animation cancelling should never exist as it's a glitch, especially in a game like this. See any leaderboards here? Didn't think so. It's a fools' errand. Let the devs actually work on important stuff.

Animation cancelling can be a feature or a glitch. Currently it is either poorly implemented or a glitch but we have no idea if it's intended or not. The fact is it happens, but it happens sporadically.

[Macabrebob]

Originally posted by Foxglovez:

Animation cancelling should never exist as it's a glitch, especially in a game like this. See any leaderboards here? Didn't think so. It's a fools' errand. Let the devs actually work on important stuff.

I am in no way responsible for what the devs do or don't work on.

With the way this game works right now animation canceling should absolutely be a thing when regarding special attacks like merciless attack. If you are talking about blocking or other ways to animation cancel, then you need a game with better enemy attack animations and A.I. like Dark Souls or you end up with a frustrating experience. As it stands, the enemies are erratic.

[Macabrebob]

Originally posted by ShouteN:

You are expecting dark souls combat in early access survival game.

No. I'm providing feedback and asking for better combat in an early access survival game. Would I be happy with Dark Souls level combat? I'd be both shocked and overjoyed. I would also be happy with making combat more simple like holding down a button instead of spamming it and watching cool stuff happen to bad guys.

[Wrothbog]

i find blocking or dodging need to be done as part of a routine rather than out of reflex. combat feeling like a formula rather than a challenge isn't my ideal scenario

no combinations isn't much fun either. should be heavy and light attacks combined with blocking and dodging

right now it seems like input has little windows it can be accepted within and failing to hit those windows creates weird timing scenarios. you can see it using tools. sometimes you rapidly use a fell hammer on a tree and sometimes there's oddly longer pauses

[Macabrebob]

Originally posted by Wrothbog:

i find blocking or dodging need to be done as part of a routine rather than out of reflex. combat feeling like a formula rather than a challenge isn't my ideal scenario

no combinations isn't much fun either. should be heavy and light attacks combined with blocking and dodging

Yeah I feel like the combat is stuck somewhere between two different ideas. Simple yet fun combat vs complex combat about precise timing and positioning. I'm honestly hoping they go the simple fun route, where the complexity is found outside combat in your skill trees and equipment. The game seems more suited for it.

[Yatagarasu]

Combat is fine as-is for the most part, mind I am not talking about bugs or unintended mechanical issues here now.

The experience is casual enough for most people to enjoy the game without prior engagement in the 3rd person RPG genre, but engaging enough for all but the most hardcore of players.

There are plenty of games that offer a difficult and nail-biting combat experience, this game doesn't have to be one of those.

EDIT:
If I have to be somewhat critical, I also feel like the game could offer some better variety in terms of feeling for the different classes of weapons. Some more spells wouldn't hurt the baseline either. But then again, there's plenty of time before full release sometime later this year to add a some more spells and tweak the weight of swings.

[VeronaKate]

Vukah Language and Calm spirit will destroy any fun that is in this game . Reasons is because everything outside the shroud everything is passive . This also effects other players 50meters around you which really sucks because players that want to be attacked do not get attacked long s your near that player . At least make those perks the player based off that perk so that you can watch your friends get attacked by wildife and vukah . xD

[Macabrebob]

Originally posted by Yatagarasu:

There are plenty of games that offer a difficult and nail-biting combat experience, this game doesn't have to be one of those.

I agree. I believe a simpler more fluid combat flow would suit this game far better than what we have now. Things like holding a button down to attack and being able to move while swinging melee would be great.

[บักหำน้อย]

please upgrade combat