Raids on the Base?

[Amalek]

Will there really be no raids on the base? What is the point of a base then? Just to craft? I find that extremely boring and takes away any sense of building a base. I hope they make this optional. There are people who don't want raids. But there are also enough people who want raids on their own base, as a challenge.

Could a developer maybe say something about this?

[Blue Hasia]

some have said bases are pointless with out raids.

Many would disagree, I really enjoy the fun of trying to be creative and build a nice home.

Now im not against raid idea but options are always nice too to turn it on or off, or maybe we build near the shroud they can pour out from the mist sat times to attack the base.

Or if we build near enemy camps

I think raid intensity would need to be on location where we build.

there are peaceful spots and hot spots.

[Sarcasteik]

If /when they do add base raids i do hope that they give all building materials the same durability so we can build how we want it to look and not just get forced into iron because it has most durability.

[Messiah]

Escrito originalmente por Toast:

Hello! Currently there are no plans for this right for the launch of early access, however we know a lot of players enjoy these kind of mechanics so we are still looking into potential solutions to implement something along those lines.

The issue we face is how open ended our building mechanics are. We really wanted to encourage creativity with our game, and as a result our building is largely unrestricted. But as a consequence this means that if we had a raid mechanic, it would be extremely easy to cheese and trivialize. And even in games with much more strict building mechanics (like Valheim), base raid mechanics are still often very trivial to beat with very easy strategies.

The issue we have run into is that, for experienced players these mechanics are trivial to deal with (and thus not fun), but for casual players they are often frustrating and annoying, which again isn't very fun.


We are looking into potential mechanics to replicate the "feel" of base raids, but currently it's still in the ideas phase and we likely won't have anything like that right at launch of early access, but maybe later down the line!

Well said, this is something most don't think about. I consider myself a pretty skilled gamer and to have a weak raid system where I just go through the motions where I wiggle peek the corner of my house to clear out this raid I will get bored. It will just feel like work and not challenging, then I rather not have it at all. On the other hand a casual player just like you say will find it frustrating while building and chillin in game to be under attack constantly, especially older and more slower players that want to relax.

In Valheim it added a threat level that was fun at times but sometimes I was also annoyed to be interrupted from my collecting session by this stupid tedious raid. Because in Valheim it was exactly like you describe, not hard for a hardcore player just an uneccessary evil and for a casual it created havoc in what they were enjoying currently. For me it was both, I heard I was under attack, I had to go back to base and kite enemies around with my bow until all were dead. Not difficult, not engaging and I had to rebuild whatever they destroyed further removing me from what I was currently doing/enjoying. The positive part was that it was not very frequent with raids so it did not frustrate me to death so you could say it added a flavour now and then. It's tricky though, in one way I want it but then I want it done in a smart and challenging way since I am a skilled player with 10's of k's in shooting games and other type of games. It should also carry some reward so you feel there is a point to it more than defending your base from being trashed. Like a big coin drop or a good weapon, lots of materials etc.

I must say you seem to understand things very well as developers, that's lovely to see. My biggest issue with this game currently is the lack of water, building boats, fishing, laying out nets that catch fish over night and just building a house near water. Also build bridges over rivers and swim etc and rain would be nice. I was surprised when I noticed it missing and it definitely make the game lack something vital.

Other than that it's a great game that could become the perfect game with the right tweaks, like enemy difficulty and density which might need a buff to raise the panic a bit while exploring, also a hardcore mode would be cool for try hards like myself at times. Especially with the town portal function the threat is already greatly reduced since you can ditch at any time out of harms way.

Thank you for making the game I have a lot of fun so far.

[Feynt]

Escrito originalmente por Toast:

Hello! Currently there are no plans for this right for the launch of early access, however we know a lot of players enjoy these kind of mechanics so we are still looking into potential solutions to implement something along those lines.

I get both sides of the equation. I for one like the constant threat of raids because it adds a time pressure to return to my base. I can't leave things alone for too long, lest my hard work be demolished. There's no reason the raids can't be a game option though (baseraids=true in config file). More options is better.

As a general discussion point, base raids are a mechanic to add an element of pressure for the player. Surviving a base raid should have something to do with the primary mechanic of the game:

• In Orcs Must Die, your base's sole purpose is the death of every orc attacking your rifts, so the primary mechanic is of course killing orcs, which rewards you with money to build more traps and skulls based on performance.
  
• Factorio by comparison (if you don't turn on peace mode) has bug attacks add a compulsion to the enemies to destroy your base, thus your automation is strained to produce enough material to defend its (ever expanding) borders. The primary mechanic is, after all, converting raw resources into "stuff", so this is both a new "stuff" to automate (ammo of multiple varieties, and/or energy to sustain your defences) and the impetus to leave your base to deal with your surroundings.
  
• 7 Days to Die is all about raw survival. You have to explore dangerous environments for resources to live day to day, but also every week you're assaulted by a horde. The purpose of the base building is to create an impregnable fortress to fend off the assault. Your continued survival is the goal.
  
• Fortnite Save the World (the proper way to play. >V) is about defending objectives and mazing out traps for the zombies to encounter. The ability to maze makes for a good experience in my mind. Enemies drop resources which can be used to craft additional weapons/traps, both of which are limited resources. Kill to build to kill, a virtuous circle.

It's that last part that's important: The virtuous circle or cycle. Doing something results in something else which in turn improves your ability to do the first thing. The base raids have to net the player something worth their effort, otherwise it becomes a vicious cycle; the downward spiral eventually ending with your base destroyed and you having no means of progressing and having to start over again.

Thoughts on the hows and whys:

• Enemies have a resource we need to progress. Provoking raids then becomes a desirable objective. There needs to be places to build in that case where enemies frequent, as well as places which enemies are not likely to raid (or it becomes impossible to raid) so we can have forward operating bases.
  
• Maybe some future bosses may be implemented which also lead mobs as a commander, and our objective is not only to repel the attacks but to ensnare said commander in a trap. Cleaning up the Shroud could also be a drawing force for these events, if that's a thing we want to do.
  
• Maybe our efforts are provoking enemies, and so the motivation for base raids is to take back what we're doing. We already rescue five humans, maybe we can find more who can be tasked with doing something that improves the quality of life of the end game (automated mining or logging for example, a passive net gain of basic resources). If we can assign those NPCs to tasks, it's also possible we can also have the tools to set up outposts or watch towers where an NPC can act as a guard, thus setting up automated defences. This can work in either case as just job specific nodes we can set up in our base radii which allow assigned NPCs to do a task within the node's range. Assign to a logging node, they'll chop trees nearby. Assign to a mining node (maybe allow us to specify dimensions to dig out) and the NPCs get to clearing a space. Assign to a barricade and you get archer NPCs standing behind the wooden (or stone) wall, ready to fire at encroaching mobs. The enemies in turn are attempting to steal back the liberated humans or kill them. Maybe the ending can change depending on how many survive to the end. Humans as a limited resource, as it were, and a final score.
  
• Just surviving may be the goal. I don't know what the ultimate end of the game is (I assume Enshrouded's story will be fully defined and an ending will be implemented eventually). But regardless of what we are trying to accomplish, we need to survive to get to that ending. Similar to 7 Days to Die, we may just be assaulted by waves of gradually increasing numbers of enemies, something best dealt with in a base which can maze them and feature traps or defences. It also adds to the pressure of completing the game rather than turtling. If the enemy attacks keep getting worse and worse as the game goes on, you have to progress, or you'll be overwhelmed. Death may be an inconvenience, but if it hurts to die, especially at the cost of your base, you'll be sure to defend harder.
  
• The flame of our bases might also be a vital component in survival. Like with Orcs Must Die, where the orcs are attempting to reach the rifts to doom the world, the enemies in the Shroud may seek to destroy our Flame Altars. This not only promotes making more bases and balancing their construction, but also gives the opposition a clear motive: Extinguish the Flame, extinguish humanity.

I feel like the game cannot enforce base raiding, but raid engagement should be something that can be encouraged. Basically like a hard mode you choose to engage in. Taking from the ideas above, if rescuing a certain number of humans and keeping them alive is a goal for a better ending or for passive resource gain, then the players get something out of the experience while also challenging themselves. Or perhaps we can clean up the world, and creating and activating the cleansing site provokes constant mounting attacks until it culminates in an unshrouded environment. There may be no benefit to doing so besides making the surrounding area safe to explore long term.

I personally like the idea of the Altars being our lifelines. If they're all destroyed, the waves gradually revert to earlier stages, but we're basically starting over from scratch because our bases would have been wiped out by that point. But this is something that would likely have to be a world setting. You're opting into hard mode on a server level, not a case by case scenario where now you feel like fighting a horde, but not earlier when you were feeling lazy and just collecting resources.

As to what can be damaged and how to handle terrain deformation: Obviously structures should be damagable. Terrain deformation I feel should be lighter on the enemy's side, unless they only damage the terrain and nothing else (clip a structure, the ground basically doesn't deform. Only hit a hill wall built up by a player, pound a chunk out of the wall). This also opens up enemy variety with sappers. Let some of them purposefully aim at terrain destruction by digging up the space around a building. They could be mostly harmless otherwise, easily dispatched in certain conditions. It gives players something to look for and target while throwing them potentially into a dangerous situation amid a bunch of angry melee units to deal with one or two terrain destroying targets. This would of course require the AI to know where and why to dig up a base, as well as having a means of shoring up previously dug out areas.

Regardless of how the base raiding is implemented, I feel strongly about having some automated defences to at least slow the progress of the enemy forces. Traps most likely, but implementing a human element to be base defenders does not sound amiss. We know that they set up defensive lines which did at least hamper enemy encroachment for a time. There are also countless wooden barricades and spike walls strewn about, so asset reuse is very much a thing that can be done. As long as we have a chance to reach a base that's under assault, we have agency in the outcome.

[DVN]

Escrito originalmente por Toast:

Hello! Currently there are no plans for this right for the launch of early access, however we know a lot of players enjoy these kind of mechanics so we are still looking into potential solutions to implement something along those lines.

The issue we face is how open ended our building mechanics are. We really wanted to encourage creativity with our game, and as a result our building is largely unrestricted. But as a consequence this means that if we had a raid mechanic, it would be extremely easy to cheese and trivialize. And even in games with much more strict building mechanics (like Valheim), base raid mechanics are still often very trivial to beat with very easy strategies.

The issue we have run into is that, for experienced players these mechanics are trivial to deal with (and thus not fun), but for casual players they are often frustrating and annoying, which again isn't very fun.


We are looking into potential mechanics to replicate the "feel" of base raids, but currently it's still in the ideas phase and we likely won't have anything like that right at launch of early access, but maybe later down the line!

me personally i dont see the point grinding my ass off for materials to build a big or really cool base/home unless i had some sort of active siege event that slowly and slowly develops as you travel further into the map or the higher you level up. i am a really big fan of the new dungeons they just released (hollow), i love fighting off hordes all at once, and hope to see soon down the line that they come running at my door swinging.
perhaps the event could start all by an item? (example, glowing red cursed skull, or a cursed scripture, or maybe a mysterious beacon you collect on a journey and it maybe benefits you in some form or way, but every time you use it there's a chance you wake up the enshrouded.

[EthanT]

Base raids are lame. In every game theyre a part of theyre boring and useless. Conans purges are easily beaten even on lvl 10 with some silly wall tricks. 7days just homing missiles on you, easily led into a kill box. In a game like Enshrouded where the building is so open ended the AI would never be able to properly navigate your base.

My base is half underground with winding corridors, the AI would never be able to even pathfind the steps, much less the base.

[MONKWORKS]

Negative. This game doesn't cater to PVP or base raiding dynamics. Introducing them as an afterthought would not balance. Take Conan, for instance; originally not designed for PVP or base raiding, it eventually incorporated these elements, resulting in a subpar experience.

I do share your thought on what a base is used for in this game; pointless...

[FSHerrante]

There may be special events in the future involving an imminent attack on your main base.

For example: fog eruption. A point of fog appears on the limits of your territory and enemies will emerge from it and harass you that night.

These events could start after complete 3 or more elixir wells, kill the wyvern or kill a matriarch. The game could tell you its imminent start with some kind of strange event near your base during the previous day.

NPCs could have defensive abilities that help protect your base during such events, so placing them in certain locations could be essential for defense.

[-=|BtB|=-Saul]

do the people clamoring for base raids think the combat in this game is good? it is not. as things stand i'd rather remove every enemy from the game than have my home turned into the hollow halls.

[rick813]

My two cents.

For me personally, no base raids. If implemented, definitely a 'yes/no' toggle in the settings menu. IMO, I am the raider. I go out and raid NPC bases and areas to gather resources and material to build bigger and better weapons/armor to go into bigger and better (worse?) areas. The base is only a place to go and craft these items. I do enjoy the adventuring, discovering, gathering, crafting, and then more adventuring. The fighting I have to do to get that done is sometimes more than enough for me. Should I even be in this game? To quote an earlier question, 'why not'?

MessiahShowTTV understands me well with another quote. " On the other hand a casual player just like you say will find it frustrating while building and chillin in game to be under attack constantly, especially older and more slower players that want to relax."

I am that older, slower, casual player. I haven't been gaming my whole life. Just started a few years ago when I retired and needed something fun to do to fill in some time. My challenge is to play these games, but not to be overwhelmed by constant death. My fingers aren't as nimble as they used to be. My keyboard abilities aren't that good. But I still would like to enjoy these games up to the limits that I can handle. Many of you can handle so much more, but give the rest of us a break.

Speaking of handling. I found that going into the Springlands Hollow Halls at lvl 7 isn't wise.

Again, a yes/no toggle if implemented. If yes, maybe even options on difficulty. And then maybe mounted and automatic weapon options (ie: Valheim Mistland ballistas) to help defend.

Anyway, that's my opinion and I stand by it.

[©.VorteX]

Please no. One of the things i appreciate about this game is that there are places where you are 100% safe and can focus on building.

...I mean, i get the very rare wolf wandering in sometimes, but that just means one extra open sandwich.

[gadfly6363]

I think the dev's description of why they don't have base raids, and aren't currently planning them, was adequate. I also agree about the amount of work it would take to implement detracting from other areas of the game. I was pretty happy to find a game that doesn't have base raids. Not every game has everything. Given that the world resets every half hour, I don't see why scavenger should be able to destroy my base when I can't permanently destroy theirs.

[Zabu]

Not putting in raids or at least the option for it is (not kidding) the biggest mistake the devs made for this game. With no mod support in sight the literal only people playing this are people who enjoy building bases for no other reason then building them. Otherwise its just a 1 and done adventure game.

For anyone who enjoys the tiniest bit of resistance in their game that just completely killed any fun in this game

[PakaNoHida]

Escrito originalmente por DarkBlueAgent:

Ok, raids are not a thing. Is there anything that can damage your base? Are there random animals or enemies that can accidentally stumble on your base and start attacking it? Is there a reason to even place doors???

I have had animals wander into my home, and get lost for weeks. So yes, Doors are actually a good thing, who knew?