Comically Blatant

[Neon Robot]

Just played some rounds of Bloodbath, there was one guy using macros that were so obvious it was painful. After each match I reported him for cheating. Then I checked his profile - Quick Match Average Kills (where he wouldn't need to cheat):

Trio - 3
Solo - 6

Ranked Average Kills:

Trio - 3
Solo - 17

Notice a mild difference there? Just looking through his stats is was so painfully obvious because in every other category he was average but suddenly in Solo Ranked his stats were insanely higher. Like if you're gonna cheat at least be a little less obvious about it.

You know if they just used the player data to create realistic averages of player values, they could identify the cheaters pretty easily by how much they exceeded those values. Or how often their stats were abnormally high in a single category.

Then I started thinking about it. You know if people who cheat are subtle enough about it to the point you basically can't tell I really have no issue with those people. They're impact on the overall game experience is so low you'd hardly notice. It's those people who are painfully obvious that are so annoying. It's why when I watch them have to fight other cheaters there's a real sense of satisfaction.

[Amica]

I dont quite understand
correct me if Im wrong
You found some guy in bloodbath who using macro ? (what is macro ? like auto spam [E] button for escape Titan or Valda ultimate ?)

after that you report him for hacking , and view his profile , found that average kill in rank is ~3 times of quickmatch
and this line "(where he wouldn't need to cheat)" why ? this guy used cheat even in bloodbath mode , why does he fair play in quickmatch mode ?

I agree with you that average 17 kill in solo rank is too high for player who is in high rank but I dont know how relative between average kill in quickmatch and Rank
If Average kill in Solo quickmatch of this guy is 18 and in rank is 17 , I also suspect him cause it too high for the average.

[mcnichoj]

What's the issue with macros again? Unless it got a new definition, last I knew it was just a script that launches a pre-selected sequence of inputs with a single press. Third party console controllers even have macro buttons on them and as far as I know Microsoft and Sony doesn't ban people for using them.

[Heradon™]

Originally posted by mcnichoj:

What's the issue with macros again? Unless it got a new definition, last I knew it was just a script that launches a pre-selected sequence of inputs with a single press. Third party console controllers even have macro buttons on them and as far as I know Microsoft and Sony doesn't ban people for using them. :balloonicorn:

If macros give you benefits then its cheating. How are Microsoft and Sony supposed to stop people from using macros? If they could ban macro abusers, they would have done that. It will probably be easier to ban these kinda cheaters soon when they start banning peoples MAC address (Hardware).

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by Meltia:

I dont quite understand
correct me if Im wrong
You found some guy in bloodbath who using macro ? (what is macro ? like auto spam [E] button for escape Titan or Valda ultimate ?)

after that you report him for hacking , and view his profile , found that average kill in rank is ~3 times of quickmatch
and this line "(where he wouldn't need to cheat)" why ? this guy used cheat even in bloodbath mode , why does he fair play in quickmatch mode ?

I agree with you that average 17 kill in solo rank is too high for player who is in high rank but I dont know how relative between average kill in quickmatch and Rank
If Average kill in Solo quickmatch of this guy is 18 and in rank is 17 , I also suspect him cause it too high for the average.

Answers to your burning questions:

A macro is a button you can press that rapidly completes an action without having to do inputs. In this case is a rapid action of crouch cancelling and longsword charge attacks. If you're unfamiliar with macros I'd recommend checking out some videos on YouTube about macro abuse.

And yeah, his kills in Solo Ranked were six times that of the other modes which sat around 3 to 6 kills average. And he'd hack mostly in that because it's likely the primary mode he plays. And he was cheating in Bloodbath mode for the same reason he cheats in general, to feel good about himself and pretend he is skilled.

He likely isn't playing fair in quickmatch, he just played quickmatch when learning the game, then discovered macros, and hasn't played since. Those quickmatch stats are the reflective of his actual skill, average.

The issue here is that you can look at the obvious differentials between average performance and see the severe imbalance. While I don't think it should be the basis for a ban one way to increase awareness of cheats is to look for individuals whose average statistics are a severe departure from normal.

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by mcnichoj:

What's the issue with macros again? Unless it got a new definition, last I knew it was just a script that launches a pre-selected sequence of inputs with a single press. Third party console controllers even have macro buttons on them and as far as I know Microsoft and Sony doesn't ban people for using them. :balloonicorn:

Because in a competitive game the ability to use a macro is an unfair advantage against players who aren't using macros. It also allow individuals to input more actions than would be physically possible. If macros were intended than they'd be built into the game.

Using macros is also a tactic admission of a lack of skill in my opinion.

[✦ Miriam ✧]

generell Macro's should put into Cheating, since you making something Impossible for a Normal Human to perform. It's heavy Ridicilous to see many people nowadays abusing Macro's or anything else... But welp we are just Living Money Bag's that can Talk i assume...

[Neon Robot]

Watching someone spam actions to the extent they cannot be killed and can rapidfire longsword charge attacks makes it questionable.

[Hidebehind]

Originally posted by mcnichoj:

What's the issue with macros again? Unless it got a new definition, last I knew it was just a script that launches a pre-selected sequence of inputs with a single press. Third party console controllers even have macro buttons on them and as far as I know Microsoft and Sony doesn't ban people for using them. :balloonicorn:

You are playing against a machine, not a person. The machine does not get tired and does not make mistakes.

[mcnichoj]

Originally posted by Heradon™:

If macros give you benefits then its cheating.

Is it also cheating if someone unlocks an ability that makes it unfair for a lower level player to have to go against?

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

Using macros is also a tactic admission of a lack of skill in my opinion.

And yet all these more skilled players are crying about losing to a less skilled one.

Originally posted by Hidebehind:

You are playing against a machine, not a person. The machine does not get tired and does not make mistakes.

Pretty sure it's still a person running around, collecting items and doing proper spacing for the macro to work.

[Shrub]

mcnichoj, no it's not cheating. I think I kinda see where you're coming from - Someone who's done the journey thing and unlocked all 3 abilities has an advantage over a regular player. I'll take it a step further and say someone with a full glyph board will have an outrageous advantage over a new player. This isn't cheating, but it doesn't mean it's fair. That's a hot topic for another discussion and not what we're talking about. To defend the practice, at least the game attempts to separate these people and you should have time to accumulate tae/journey objectives before the bots are over. Not great, but it's... fine, I guess?

I do like that you brought up skill. You're right, with correct spacing and item management, despite the macro users unfair advantage you can still beat him.

Have you heard of Dissidia Final Fantasy? When you begin the game, a moogle asks you what difficulty you'd like to play on. If you request the hardest difficulty without playing the game, the moogle punishes your arrogance by pitting you, level 1 Zidane, against max level Feral Chaos, the final boss of the game. You can beat this boss with correct spacing and knowledge, but it is blatantly unfair and you weren't intended to beat him.

However, both of these situations are unfair. You weren't intended to fight Feral Chaos right away and you weren't intended to fight against someone with consistently perfect button inputs, aka a machine. Unlike glyphs and abilities, Naraka has nothing in place to protect anyone from someone cheating (and it is cheating).

(I'm looking at you that one person who takes my words too literally. Stop!)

To finalize this and TL;DR: Macros are unfair compared to abilities and glyphs, but who cares because and I QUOTE from right HERE:
[https://www.narakathegame.com/guide/instruction/privacypolicy.html]

Originally posted by Naraka:

3.3.3 use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify any part of the Game, collect any information of the Game or connect to the Game, including but not limited to simulating game user operations, changing the operating environment, modifying data to disrupt other users’ game experience through the employment of external software, including but not limited to scripts (robots), plug-ins, button wizard software or third-party tools (e.g. the multi-open function under the simulator, synchronizer, record macro, keyboard mapping, cloud phone etc.);

*Edit: Minor cleaning

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by mcnichoj:

Originally posted by Heradon™:

If macros give you benefits then its cheating.

Is it also cheating if someone unlocks an ability that makes it unfair for a lower level player to have to go against?

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

Using macros is also a tactic admission of a lack of skill in my opinion.

And yet all these more skilled players are crying about losing to a less skilled one.

Originally posted by Hidebehind:

You are playing against a machine, not a person. The machine does not get tired and does not make mistakes.

Pretty sure it's still a person running around, collecting items and doing proper spacing for the macro to work. :balloonicorn:

Let's answer your questions in order:

1. If a game is well designed and balanced than that shouldn't happen. If it is that is something that needs to be corrected via patches. When unbalanced or overpowered things are found they're pretty much continually patched. The whole idea is that roughly every player is starting at similar abilities and then has the chance to succeed on an even playing field with the variables of luck and skill.

2. Yes, because they're using an enhancement. Just like taking drugs to increase your performance at a sporting event is also considered cheating. A bad player who grants themselves an unfair advantage didn't suddenly become good. They simply cheated. They didn't improve their skills via cheating and if those macro players tried to play without their enhancements they would suddenly be incredibly average.

In another game I play I've convinced some players using cheats to shut them off because I point out their win has no reflection on them because they're cheating. To prove me wrong they'll shut off their cheats or macros and they do really badly. Their usage of enhancements hasn't made their skill grow it's only made them worse.

3. They're running and collecting items yes. However when it comes to combat they're using an enhancement that allows them performance *far* outside the range of normal ability. You bringing brass knuckles to a boxing match and winning doesn't mean you're a better boxer. It means you broke the rules and gave yourself an advantage. YOU didn't earn the victory, your tool did it for you. It's a tacit admission that YOU can't do it legitimately. That if you had to play without the macros you wouldn't reach anywhere near the level you do. Because you don't have the skill. That's how I see it.

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by Guinea Pig:

Are macros officially banned though ?

Yes they are. It's in the TOS.

3.3.3 use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify any part of the Game, collect any information of the Game or connect to the Game, including but not limited to simulating game user operations, changing the operating environment, modifying data to disrupt other users’ game experience through the employment of external software, including but not limited to scripts (robots), plug-ins, button wizard software or third-party tools (e.g. the multi-open function under the simulator, synchronizer, record macro, keyboard mapping, cloud phone etc.);

[✦ Miriam ✧]

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

Originally posted by Guinea Pig:

Are macros officially banned though ?

Yes they are. It's in the TOS.

3.3.3 use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify any part of the Game, collect any information of the Game or connect to the Game, including but not limited to simulating game user operations, changing the operating environment, modifying data to disrupt other users’ game experience through the employment of external software, including but not limited to scripts (robots), plug-ins, button wizard software or third-party tools (e.g. the multi-open function under the simulator, synchronizer, record macro, keyboard mapping, cloud phone etc.);

Then they lose at max 60% of the Playerbase. It wouldn't be good for the business so they let them still run free. So proves us once more, we are only Money Bag's for them. No Reason anymore to play Fair at all to be honest, if you see still Cheater's and Macro user's run freely!

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by ᴹᴵᴿᴵᴬᴹ:

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

Yes they are. It's in the TOS.

3.3.3 use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify any part of the Game, collect any information of the Game or connect to the Game, including but not limited to simulating game user operations, changing the operating environment, modifying data to disrupt other users’ game experience through the employment of external software, including but not limited to scripts (robots), plug-ins, button wizard software or third-party tools (e.g. the multi-open function under the simulator, synchronizer, record macro, keyboard mapping, cloud phone etc.);

Then they lose at max 60% of the Playerbase. It wouldn't be good for the business so they let them still run free. So proves us once more, we are only Money Bag's for them. No Reason anymore to play Fair at all to be honest, if you see still Cheater's and Macro user's run freely!

At the end of the day I still have ethics. I still want my wins and success to feel legitimate. I hope the developers will do the right thing and fix these issues.

[✦ Miriam ✧]

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

At the end of the day I still have ethics. I still want my wins and success to feel legitimate. I hope the developers will do the right thing and fix these issues.

I lost hope after the Last note they gave us this Month. Epic Games Release "MID SEPTEMBER". Implementing Stuff without telling us (besides ingame mail). Ignoring our Screams on the Forum (instead releasing more Cosmetics and a new "amazing event").
If you have still hope, you have alot of endurence with them.