Gates... How many can a pen have?

[Let Me Die]

So, how many gates can a pen have? What makes it a pen? If it only has walls & gates - no dreamstone or trough - why is it deemed to be a pen? Etc, basically.

I'm trying to design my ranch, & failing miserably. I had a pen - gates, dreamstones, trough, food, space - & when I took my dinos to it, I didn't have the option to tell them it was their home. When I removed the extra gates it allowed me to allocate it as their home. Why? They run around willy-nilly, leaving their pens as they like; why should extra doors be a problem?

[ZellieQueen]

I know that a pen needs to have at least on gate attached to an area that isn't another pen, so if you have pens that lead into other pens it can sometimes get a bit confused as to what is supposed to be a pen! If the gates were part of fences that are shared between two pens that could have caused a problem?

I believe there is also a rule where a pen can't be bigger than the free space remaining across the rest of the ranch, in case that helps narrow down the problem 🙂

[Let Me Die]

@ZellieQueen (Sorry for delay) Thank you so much.
On some of the "pens" I've constructed as temporaries the issue of leading onto something that isn't a pen may be part of it - just because I don't think it's a pen doesn't mean the game doesn't, since it has walls & gates... (lol)
But the specific pen that didn't work (haven't tried most as they are temporary until I figure out the rules) did have one gate onto an area that definitely wasn't a pen. (The area beside & in front of the house.) It did have 3 gates total (before I adjusted it until it worked), 2 of which adjoined potential pens - though I don't know what the game thought they were - but it also had dreamstones, a trough, food, & I don't think anything was missing since after I changed the extra gates to walls it was happy to allocate the dinosaurs to live in it. So I'm not sure whether those extra gates were breaking pen rules somehow...
Regarding the free space thing, it should not have been the issue (although I wouldn't hedge my bets) since the area behind the vines isn't cleared yet so that's "free" space. Could you clarify on this point for my future reference please, is it EACH pen that has to be smaller than the free space, or the TOTAL pen space that has to be smaller than the free?
PS - How does one know how much free space one has???

Anyone:
I'm having real trouble figuring out how one is supposed to make enough pens for the dreamstone allowance, let alone that practically everything has either a pack preference or clashes with the other species of its pack, diet, & biome preferences. AND that's mostly from other references & not experience as I'm not that far into the game...

If anyone can tell me simply how this works, that'd be great. ... If anyone KNOWS. Thank you.

[ZellieQueen]

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

Could you clarify on this point for my future reference please, is it EACH pen that has to be smaller than the free space, or the TOTAL pen space that has to be smaller than the free?
PS - How does one know how much free space one has???

As far as I know, the comparison is the size of ONE pen vs free space total across the entire ranch 🙂I don't know how big the ranch is, but you can check the size of each pen with your journal 🙂

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

I'm having real trouble figuring out how one is supposed to make enough pens for the dreamstone allowance, let alone that practically everything has either a pack preference or clashes with the other species of its pack, diet, & biome preferences. AND that's mostly from other references & not experience as I'm not that far into the game...

In case it helps:
- Dinos don't NEED the preferred biome, it just gives them a happiness boost!
- Pack dinos are fine in a group of 2-3 (so a group of 3 works for both Pack and Herd dinos!)
- Dinos don't need to live with the same species, but they need to share the correct food type, because herbivores don't like to be in a pen that has carnivore food in it! (Omnivores are happy living in a pen with either food type!)

I hope that helps 💖

[Let Me Die]

Originally posted by ZellieQueen:

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

-snipped- PS - How does one know how much free space one has???

As far as I know, the comparison is the size of ONE pen vs free space total across the entire ranch 🙂I don't know how big the ranch is, but you can check the size of each pen with your journal 🙂

Thanks for that. I did know how to check the size of the pen, it's how we are supposed to know how much free space there is that puzzles me. Initially it's obvious the farm/ranch is bigger, but as you clear the place, if you make bigger pens - especially since there isn't a map - if it had been the size of the total pen space, it would be very hard to calculate. (I'm still having trouble working out how to allow enough space in a pen first go instead of 10 tries later... I know the math, but it just won't apply!)

Originally posted by ZellieQueen:

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

-snipped-

In case it helps:
- Dinos don't NEED the preferred biome, it just gives them a happiness boost!
- Pack dinos are fine in a group of 2-3 (so a group of 3 works for both Pack and Herd dinos!)
- Dinos don't need to live with the same species, but they need to share the correct food type, because herbivores don't like to be in a pen that has carnivore food in it! (Omnivores are happy living in a pen with either food type!)

I hope that helps 💖

Thanks again. Unfortunately except that preferred biome was only a preference not a need, I knew the rest. (I KNOW a surprising amount about the game. I just can't make any of it APPLY to the game.)
I'm very ... particular. (Couldn't think of a word that wouldn't be censored.) So I have unnecessary issues come up, such as the fact that the Valley has 2 herd species (not counting the Para...s since I haven't finished finding them yet) who like (from experience) 4 dinos - possibly more - in a pen. Everything else (except the loners, which I will be able to deal with) wants a pack - & my dinos want a pack of 2. They start to grumble if I introduce a 3rd for any length of time...
So chopping up my ranch is becoming a nightmare, & that's only the Valley dinos. (I've opened the Forest & am working on the Desert, but because of biomes I haven't bothered to catch any Forest ones yet.)
Having some consistent & clear rules in this game would be really helpful to me, especially if I could FIND them...

If you (or anyone) figure out anything else about pen rules, I'd appreciate hearing it please. Worst case, I already knew it. Best case, I learn useful tips. :)

[susiesmith13]

Pack dinos will only accept a third one if the pen is big enough. Herd dinos don't care how many you add as long as there is enough room. My Herbivore Herd pen has 7 dinos in it. It takes up most of the place behind my house. Herbivores will complain if you put omnivores in with them too. It kept saying they were uncomfortable with meat eater in there. I think they are afraid of being eaten.
I don't bother trying to do the math because it doesn't work. Each dino has their own preference to how much room they want, and they may want more or less than their species is supposed to need. The Chaos Factor at work.

[Fyrmare]

I don't think herbivores care about omnivores? Or maybe only some of the omnivores? Galimimus are omnivore and I always put them in with herbivores. Herbivores complain if you give the omnivores meat, but omni's will live off herbi food alone.

If there is a rule about free space verses pen space, I haven't found it. I have sometimes had most of the ranch penned up and once turned the entire fiber quarter into a pen for a rex. I wouldn't worry over much about that condition if it does exist.

I don't really know how the game's auto pen sensor works. Wish I did. Sometimes I can put a gate in that connects two pens and they both stay valid, sometimes I put in a new pen and it invalidates a pen in use it doesn't even touch. I think it doesn't like to have "free" space enclosed on all four sides by pens.

You shouldn't ultimately have any trouble having enough space for your dream stones once you have the ranch cleared. In my current play I have a massive farm of a garden, have turned all but six of my dream stones into large dream stones, and I still have pens that are empty or not at max capacity.

[Let Me Die]

@Fyrmare - Thanks, but it isn't the space issue. (Except for working out pen size before building, which I can't do, no matter how I wriggle the math...)
It's about building my pens so that they can abut/adjoin other pens, without having to build borders around a pathway that encircles the entire ranch just so the silly game recognises that it IS a pen. If anything, there is too much space & not enough dinos...

[ZellieQueen]

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

(I'm still having trouble working out how to allow enough space in a pen first go instead of 10 tries later... I know the math, but it just won't apply!)

The pens can seem hard to calculate at first, because the fences sit on the middle of each grid square, not the edge, meaning that the square that a fencepost sits on doesn't count towards the total area. You essentially need to add an extra fencepost to each end - so for example, for a 25m pen one would assume 5 x 5 of fenceposts, but what is actually needed is (1+5+1) x (1 + 5 + 1) 🙂

I've uploaded a screenshot as a visual example: https://ibb.co/T04TBmT

It doesn't have the total ranch size, but Skudde made an incredible ranch template, that shows how many squares each section of the ranch is! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4cmgj3os0ubOlXxUmEtUOLweSd8geNi/view

[Let Me Die]

Thanks for the links. While I technically know the math, I have found applying it never seems to work for me. Also with all the wriggles in the shape of the ranch it gets harder for me to figure out. Hopefully for calculating my pen sizes in advance these will help.

*Edit - I have seen the ranch template, but didn't realise - does the grid its drawn on represent the fence posts/ranch squares?*

If you figure out about the gates & how many pens can adjoin each other, etc, please let me know!
I had 3 (technically) adjoining each other & it didn't work, but when I made a slight alteration - it was still technically 3, just less gates - it did work. So I'm still befuddled about that aspect.

I fenced off the 2 (as the vine area isn't clear yet) alley-like sections (one from rock section to wood, one from wood to main ranch, none from beside house) to keep all pens I placed separated, then made the large areas into pens as a temporary measure. The journal indicated they were pens that needed dreamstones & troughs. (It did also say the separators were pens...) However when I added those things & then tried to add dinos, it wouldn't let me tell them to call it home...

[Will | Paleo Pines Dev Team]

So there's not supposed to be any limit on how many gates a pen can have, but they do need to have at least one gate to an area that isn't another pen! We are still trying to pin down some bugs regarding pen building/registering and it sounds like you're maybe dealing with one of them- Would you be able to send over a copy of your save data? Thanks!

[Let Me Die]

@Rancher Wilby - Sure, but not sure how or where? (How as in email, upload, etc.)
*Do NOT use Discord; WILL not either.

Knowing each pen needs to adjoin a non-pen area is very helpful, but how does one make an area NOT be a pen?
Eg/I.e. : Ranch has entrance area. Either on left (facing house) where vines are/were, or on right where fallen logs are/were, there are narrower "sections" between larger areas. How does (or can) one put gates on each end of the narrow section to make pens in each larger area, without the journal (& therefore game) registering that "enclosed" area as a pen too? An official "template" or example showing how to work those types of issues would be most helpful. Or even just some words, but visual for this type of issue would be better.

[Let Me Die]

*EDIT to above post: Found section on reporting a bug. Don't know the site for uploading files, don't know how to upload them, etc, etc. Won't bother reporting as developers are aware of the general issue. Please advise if workaround requires "rules" not an update, what those rules are.*

[Will | Paleo Pines Dev Team]

Originally posted by Let Me Die:

@Rancher Wilby - Sure, but not sure how or where? (How as in email, upload, etc.)
*Do NOT use Discord; WILL not either.

Knowing each pen needs to adjoin a non-pen area is very helpful, but how does one make an area NOT be a pen?
Eg/I.e. : Ranch has entrance area. Either on left (facing house) where vines are/were, or on right where fallen logs are/were, there are narrower "sections" between larger areas. How does (or can) one put gates on each end of the narrow section to make pens in each larger area, without the journal (& therefore game) registering that "enclosed" area as a pen too? An official "template" or example showing how to work those types of issues would be most helpful. Or even just some words, but visual for this type of issue would be better.

Yep you can email me at will @ italicpig.com with your save data (there should be a pinned post in the bug reporting subforum) and I'll get back to you with any other information I can put together about how the game decides what is and what isn't a pen!

[Let Me Die]

Thanks. Emailed per instructions. :)

[Let Me Die]

Removed topic answer as I never heard anything. If anyone can actually provide help, that would be great.