SPOILERS: Atma Ending discussion

[sugerfreek]

SPOILERS this thread is for discussing Atma and the ending if you haven't finished yet don't read this and spoil it for yourself

The rest of this will be hidden as it heavily discusses the ending and spoilers.

The only thing that has left me confused is whether Atma was every real at all. People seem to believe that he was, and that he died, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe he was always just in Raya's mind.

Marin refers to him often as an imaginary friend, and while this isn't much in itself I believe this was a nod to us to investigate this path further.

We know nothing about him, his background, his family. While he shares hobbies and interests with Raya, there is nothing more substantial to him really. Even Atma himself points out that it's weird that a high school boy wants to hang out with an elementary school girl.

This leads to the other people around town. He supposedly lives on the outskirts, he is meant to have a part-time job, yet not a single other person in Loca Town knows or remembers him. He didn't attend Loca School, yet we always see him in the Loca School uniform. Where would he get that from? If he did attend school why does noone at school including teachers know who he is?

We know that noone in town knows who he is, because when Raya tells people that Atma got lost in the river, there is no search for him, no body is found. If a single person has known Atma then there would have been a search.

The final piece of information that Atma was never real is in the consistent hints to "False Memory Syndrome" this is a unproven psychological condition where a person will believe wholeheartedly that a traumatic incident happened to them when it never did. We know that memories can be manipulated, and it is believed that fables like the existence of repressed memories have led more people to believe in autobiographical data that isn't true.

I think Raya was having a hard time. So she invented Atma to help her and support her creative pursuits. Having Daddy issues, it seems normal that she created a protective older brother. Then when she decided that she wanted to do what she thought everyone wanted from her, she killed him off. Only she believes that all these events really happened. Her belief that Atma was a real person gave her strength in his memory.

And that's another thing that points to Atma never being real. Everyone else is flawed, except Atma. He's perfect. He never says the wrong thing, he never does the wrong thing. He helps everyone in town. He is beyond human, because in inventing him, she made him without flaws.

Raya was always creative. That is pushed throughout the story. I think she has the ability to create a person out of thin air.

Thanks for reading my thoughts. I really want to know others opinions on this.

[archaon_archi]

I've just finished the game and hey, I hadn't thought about it like that, but it makes perfect sense.

[MasterOfTheMoon]

On top of what you have already mentioned:
He is a teenager living in an abandoned train car on the outskirts of town with little to no resources. Yet his clothes are always clean, he is always clean-shaven, his hair looks groomed and he seems to be well-fed. Even before he had his part-time job. How does he manage that? He doesn't strike me as the survivalist type. So he must have either been begging or stealing. And I think someone would have noticed the delinquent runaway vagrant in the train car after a while. He also appears to be perfectly healthy despite his less-the-ideal living conditions.

And while Raya's father is probably too busy at work, her mother would have been curious about what her elementary school-aged daughter is doing all day and would be concerned once she finds out that she is hanging around with a high school student. And given how much Marin cared about Raya, you'd think she would have followed her after school at least once to see what she is up to and ran into Atma. I guess my main point is that someone other than Raya had to be aware of Atma's existence. I don't buy that he managed to live in the train cart in secret the entire time.

[zero]

Same here
I always wonder why nobody search for the boy even though Nirmala said someone else is drowned. it feels odd, it's like they know for sure that nobody else in there.

Atma lives there, work, school, somebody must know him. He leave zero trace is almost impossible. Through the game only Nirmala know his existance, literally no other character acknowledge him, even Marin who is investigating him concluded that he is not real, she is the closest person to Nirmala, she watched her almost everywhere at school, at home, at escape, for a long time, yet she never meet Atma, not even once! how is it possible?

Maybe this is what they mean by Atma is special, unlike everyone else he is not built from memory of a real person.

[Eka767✈]

Originally posted by sugerfreek:

This leads to the other people around town. He supposedly lives on the outskirts, he is meant to have a part-time job, yet not a single other person in Loca Town knows or remembers him. He didn't attend Loca School, yet we always see him in the Loca School uniform. Where would he get that from? If he did attend school why does noone at school including teachers know who he is?

We know that noone in town knows who he is, because when Raya tells people that Atma got lost in the river, there is no search for him, no body is found. If a single person has known Atma then there would have been a search.

Well, in Indonesia nowadays it could be quite common thing that your neighbor doesn't even know your name especially if you're a newcomer. This is true on Jakarta area, since 2015 i come from another city and renting a room (share-house) here. Honestly during the last 8 years staying there, I don't even know the names of my neighbors and i assume so do they. There were indeed several interactions, but its quite often that we interact for quite a long time without knowing each other names. So when Atma was lost and nobody knows about him except Nirmala (RFN), i am not really surprised.

I have a personal theory that Atma may have been drifted away by strong river currents instead of directly drowned and falls down, hence may explaining why the scene shows Atma getting farther from RFN. His body may have been found elsewhere outside Loka City without anyone on Loka City knowledge which may explain why Marin never found him on Loka City records - or just simply lost (there is indeed a case of people lost on river and never be found).

In terms of why does he use school uniform, i just wanted to assume that he ran away from his actual city during school day, and ended up settled for a while in Loka City. But well the fact that he got a part time job indeed intrigued me.

Originally posted by sugerfreek:

The final piece of information that Atma was never real is in the consistent hints to "False Memory Syndrome" this is a unproven psychological condition where a person will believe wholeheartedly that a traumatic incident happened to them when it never did. We know that memories can be manipulated, and it is believed that fables like the existence of repressed memories have led more people to believe in autobiographical data that isn't true.

I think Raya was having a hard time. So she invented Atma to help her and support her creative pursuits. Having Daddy issues, it seems normal that she created a protective older brother. Then when she decided that she wanted to do what she thought everyone wanted from her, she killed him off. Only she believes that all these events really happened. Her belief that Atma was a real person gave her strength in his memory.

I see a good point here, however i have a question. Why do RFN seemed very traumatized when he was just a imaginary person? Assuming that he was the character that RFN imagine, i think she may have just imagine that everything is going on as perfectly imagined.

Well in my personal opinion so far, Atma may have been a real person and the incident when he was drowned did happen. Alas, only RFN knows well about him and the incident which leaves her very traumatized, and nobody else in the town knows or even aware about him. (i assume that he may have been on Loka city only for matter of days or weeks). But understanding that he did got a part-time job, may suggest that someone at least should know about him. I think he may have introduced himself to his employer with his other part of name assuming that "Atma" was just simply a nickname and he may have a longer name.

However i remembered there are a confusing question about Atma's existence - during the calendar scene, you can see there is a section written "writing together with Atma" (4 May). My question is, how do she already knows about Atma when in game it seems that she meets with Atma only when his father already becomes severe? It appears that the calendar scenes may have suggest RFN better days when his father still kind to her and her mother.

Well as long as developer hasn't confirmed anything solid / canonical, any kind of theory may be possible.

[『lucernae』]

I have finished the game twice now, and I finally have my own conclusion...

The title of the game, "A Space for the Unbound", refers to a place between life and death. Just like a limbo. With this in mind, we can draw some conclusions.

- It was implied that Raya attempted suicide and become comatose in the process. While in this condition, she was stranded in "A Space for the Unbound", because she wasn't bounded to life. She didn't want to live
- ASFTU contains figments of Raya's imagination + shared collective consciousness of the reality, including real memories.
- Raya has complete controls over the shared consciousness, she can create new original things (like the characters inside). She can erase anything she has controls of, except Nirmala, and Atma.
- She can't erase Nirmala, because Nirmala is her own self split personality
- In conclusion, Atma is either a real soul, or her own self split personality (imaginary friend). But the latter doesn't make any sense, because if he is an imaginary friend, there will be no difference between Atma and Dark Atma. So, subconsciously Raya understands that Atma is real and not an imaginary friend.
- Then, the only possible conclusion we can draw is that Atma is a real person that has died, but his soul is also trapped in ASFTU, because he died with regrets for not being able to complete his story with Nirmala

If I were to use this to explain the discrepancies/weird facts in-game:
- All the high schooler and teacher doesn't know Atma, because in real life Atma has been died already while these kids were in high school
- People who knows Atma were usually older person, and they were some sorts of vendors/services, like the security guard, canteen lady, tire fixer, street sellers, arcade watcher, etc. This implies these person were manifested as part of Atma's memories and not from Raya's. Since both Atma and them knew each other. It might have been possible that these are not person from Loka city themselves.
- Some flashbacks after each bucket lists completed were in fact Atma's memories, rather than Raya's. So the scenes were vivid.
- Some flashbacks after each chapters from Raya's memories doesn't have scenes, except if it was depicted as part of space dives (Atma had to dive to their memories). This is only possible if Atma himself is not part of Raya.
- Atma's body never found can be explained if his body drifted very far in that storm
- Raya's trauma can be explained definitely if Atma is a real person that really died, and no one knows him
- It is possible that Atma were part timing in another city and only played around Loka city, just to meet Raya.
- It is also possible that Loka city is just a pun of "Lokasi T" (A place for the) and it was never real and only exists within ASFTU as part of a mishmash between a real world memories of Raya and Atma, which is some place in Surabaya (a real place).
- Since Atma completed his bucket lists, it is safe to assume that Atma moved on since his regrets were no more. Which is why in the epilogue, Raya says farewell to Atma (a real person that already dead and moved on).
- Initially, Raya made the bucket lists with Atma so that they can moved on together after completing the lists (since Raya herself knew she attempted suicide to be together with Atma). But near the end, Raya realized she had no controls over the real Atma, and Atma himself wanted Raya to wake up.
- Nirmala and Bosque noted/quoted several times that Atma's existence is unique and unbounded in this space. Nirmala herself entrusted Atma to write the proper ending, because she knew Atma is real and not part of Raya and Nirmala's imagination.
- The issue regarding Marin never met Atma can be explained if Marin at that time is very busy with her drawing club. Then once Marin is back, Atma was away on his part-time job. Marin never found Atma's records simply because Atma ran away and not from the Loka city himself.

[Rabbit]

Atma was never real. Already in the beginning of the game, where You go get that magic wand, Raya is already standing around in the background. It would not be possible for you to see the alter ego of her.

[skabbi]

I'm not going to bother putting everything in spoiler text since this whole discussion is a spoiler.

I think there's a lot that rings true about the theory that Atma did exist, but that the Atma in Nirmala's/Raya's head is a spirit or a ghost of some kind. For me, possibly the strongest piece of evidence is when Atma and Raya are together on the rooftop, and Atma is talking about his actual, real memories, which seem like something Nirmala might not know about. However, I think ultimately the writers deliberately left this unclear and I think the story does a pretty good job of leaving both options open.

I don't think a completely fake person dying would cause Raya this much angst, and the flood memory seems real, even if nothing else is. I agree with some of the other posters above though, in that Nirmala might have "beautified" his image in her memories, and he was probably not as perfect in terms of behaviour or looks as portrayed in her head.

In any case, it seems like if he was real, that Atma was an exceedingly kind and empathetic person while Nirmala was very creative and open. I'm not Indonesian, so can't speak to society there besides what is portrayed in the game, but from my own experience, outsiders tend to stick together, so even though it's strange, it doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief that the two of them would form a close bond.

In a narrative sense, the fact that the game moves straight from the prologue where Atma drowns (in first person) to Raya's dream also signifies that he's a spirit of some sort. This is a well established trope in east Asian fiction, though I can't speak to Indonesia specifically.