Does anyone else feel a bit grossed out by some of the romance options in this game?

[NotAfan]

I'm still in act 2, did a bonding event with Altina and...yeesh. There's also heart bold events for characters like Alfin and Fie is also kinda problematic now that I think about it...
I'm assuming the game won't actually show Rean kissing or entering in an explicit relationship with a minor (especially if it's one of his own students, no less), but the very implication that you can court these young women and, if it's like previous games, have romantic final event is just...yuck.

I like the game and the series, I'm not trying to trash talk it or anything, just...putting this out of my chest, it just feels pretty uncomfortable.

[TotemMX]

Dont worry, Rean sees Alfin and Fie like a little sister. No romantic interest.

On the other hand... you could see something "special" going on with Laura, for example (my favorite). There is no explicit content. Only hugs and kisses. There is a bath scene tho, but all girls have their parts covered.

[Barefoot]

understandable but i will say he does kiss Fie but she also informs him that she just turned 18 at the time

on top of it all they let you romance your sister even if shes not your sister by blood the fact they even add that shows they have issues lol

but to be honest thats all up to the player on how you proceed me i prefer Emma or Laura

Alisa is to naggy even tho they make her the main one for romancing which idk why they even let us choose

i personally change the dialog myself so it makes it seem like Alisa isnt interested in rean or him into her gets a lil tricky with the voice but i find enough Voice to make it work from the other 3 game's to port over

sucks i cant change Laura since they changed voice acters from 1-2 and its someone different for 3-4 voicing her

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

1): Fie, Alfin and Elise are 17 or 18 at this point, which is past age of consent (16) in most of the world, including Japan and Europe. Altina is a different matter; more on this below.

2): Rean isn't actually interested in romantics with anyone other than Alisa (ironically, she's the only one not simply falling for him at this point), and whenever anyone else confesses their love for him he's more confused and embarrassed than anything else. The final bonding events with girls other than Alisa (both here and in CS 2 & 3) kinda come out of nowhere from Reans side; they all feel as if he's doing it because he's to much of a gentleman to hurt their feelings; not because he's feeling the same way.

3): Altina is of course way too young for Rean (and his student). But then Rean is also even less interested in romantics with her than he is with all the others (save for Alisa); he's acting a mentor for her while she's learning about emotions and feeling like a human being. Her feelings for him aren't even articulated enough to be called 'romantic', but more familial, like a daughter to a father. Insofar as she's interpreting them as romantic, she's probably subconsciously emulating everyone else's feelings.

4): Juna and Musse are also to young, and his students too. In their final events, I see Rean effectively telling them "I appreciate your feelings, you're a beautiful young girl, but now is not the time for such things. Maybe sometime in the future, after you've graduated, and become an adult (and most likely have long since found someone better suited to you)." He's letting them down gently.

5): The 'everyone loves Hypnotoad Rean' thing going on in this game is cringeworthy at best. But that's because the girls lose all agency and independence when it comes to Rean, not because Rean is behaving inappropriately towards them. Falcom should never have gone with the Romance-bonding thing in the first place (though it's fairly palatable in CS 1/2/3), but when they committed to it, they had to follow through, and it could have been a lot worse. Hopefully they've learned from this.

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

1): Fie, Alfin and Elise are 17 or 18 at this point, which is past age of consent (16) in most of the world, including Japan and Europe. Altina is a different matter; more on this below.

2): Rean isn't actually interested in romantics with anyone other than Alisa (ironically, she's the only one not simply falling for him at this point), and whenever anyone else confesses their love for him he's more confused and embarrassed than anything else. The final bonding events with girls other than Alisa (both here and in CS 2 & 3) kinda come out of nowhere from Reans side; they all feel as if he's doing it because he's to much of a gentleman to hurt their feelings; not because he's feeling the same way.

3): Altina is of course way too young for Rean (and his student). But then Rean is also even less interested in romantics with her than he is with all the others (save for Alisa); he's acting a mentor for her while she's learning about emotions and feeling like a human being. Her feelings for him aren't even articulated enough to be called 'romantic', but more familial, like a daughter to a father. Insofar as she's interpreting them as romantic, she's probably subconsciously emulating everyone else's feelings.

4): Juna and Musse are also to young, and his students too. In their final events, I see Rean effectively telling them "I appreciate your feelings, you're a beautiful young girl, but now is not the time for such things. Maybe sometime in the future, after you've graduated, and become an adult (and most likely have long since found someone better suited to you)." He's letting them down gently.

5): The 'everyone loves Hypnotoad Rean' thing going on in this game is cringeworthy at best. But that's because the girls lose all agency and independence when it comes to Rean, not because Rean is behaving inappropriately towards them. Falcom should never have gone with the Romance-bonding thing in the first place (though it's fairly palatable in CS 1/2/3), but when they committed to it, they had to follow through, and it could have been a lot worse. Hopefully they've learned from this.

Problem is, even taking all you wrote into consideration, the subtext the game throws at you as if you can court those girls and bask in the feeling of how they all say they love you. Not only is it pretty jarring (every first event has every single girl either think about how much they love him or confess their love to him point-blank regardless of how you spent time with them in previous installments), but so many of them are minors that the very fact the game indulges in it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like I'm grooming these people. And the fact that the game gives you no option to opt-out of those outside of just not spending your bond points (like just now, a single guy was available for bonding events, the rest were all girls with heart bonds) is very...not good, I actually considered just not spending them because I didn't want to risk another uncomfortable situation lol. I just did Alfin and she, a minor, also tells him how she loves him point-blank, and Laura just...up and kisses you...at least she's your age.

I guess I just have to accept it, but it's definitely a bit of a red-flag when it comes to, say...how "tasteful" this series can be or how an otaku target audience can get disturbing like that.

[Demonos3]

no.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Funchal99:

Problem is, even taking all you wrote into consideration, the subtext the game throws at you as if you can court those girls and bask in the feeling of how they all say they love you. Not only is it pretty jarring (every first event has every single girl either think about how much they love him or confess their love to him point-blank regardless of how you spent time with them in previous installments), but so many of them are minors that the very fact the game indulges in it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like I'm grooming these people. And the fact that the game gives you no option to opt-out of those outside of just not spending your bond points (like just now, a single guy was available for bonding events, the rest were all girls with heart bonds) is very...not good, I actually considered just not spending them because I didn't want to risk another uncomfortable situation lol. I just did Alfin and she, a minor, also tells him how she loves him point-blank, and Laura just...up and kisses you...at least she's your age.

I guess I just have to accept it, but it's definitely a bit of a red-flag when it comes to, say...how "tasteful" this series can be or how an otaku target audience can get disturbing like that.

I definitely see your point. At least the scenes are optional and don't add anything to the gameplay. If you care about achievements, you might want to go through the whole game once (NG+ with max Bonding Points) so you can do all final bonding scenes and complete the notebook. If not, ignoring those whom you don't care about is perfectly legit. Arguably, that's even the intention; you are supposed to decide who Rean wants to get closer with. Oh, and if you skip the first bonding event for any given girl, the second one will not really be romantic, IIRC, so you could do that if you still want to see most of them.

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

Oh, and if you skip the first bonding event for any given girl, the second one will not really be romantic, IIRC, so you could do that if you still want to see most of them.

Oh, that's good to know, thanks!

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Funchal99:

Oh, that's good to know, thanks!

You're welcome!

[spectre199]

Originally posted by TotemMX:

Dont worry, Rean sees Alfin and Fie like a little sister. No romantic interest.

On the other hand... you could see something "special" going on with Laura, for example (my favorite). There is no explicit content. Only hugs and kisses. There is a bath scene tho, but all girls have their parts covered.

that is not how the game see's it. The game see's it that you "Rean" is courting Alfin, Fie in a romanctic way

[Entelechia]

I don't see myself as Rean when I play this game. He's his own person. If being nice and accommodating to anyone, especially distressed friends, is 'courting' to you then I guess it is. *shrug*

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by Andvari:

I don't see myself as Rean when I play this game. He's his own person. If being nice and accommodating to anyone, especially distressed friends, is 'courting' to you then I guess it is. *shrug*

As much as Rean is no silent protagonist, you are the one making decisions on his behalf on who to court (there's even a pink heart icon to signify you're actively choosing to have a romamtic moment).
And even then, if you really think that the MC being nice and accomodating to his friends always results in every single female friend developing romantic feelings for him is not at all meant to be a fantasy to the target audience of this game, then yeah, I guess there's not much left to say.
Let's pretend the harem mechanic is not at all meant as a self-insertion feature for the players and is there for deep narrative reasons.

[Entelechia]

Yes and you can choose not to pursue romantic endeavors. It's more akin to a select a story you want to watch than self-inserting into a blank protagonist who can't even talk like in Persona.

I mean if you think that's the only reason that's on you lol. The romantic subplot doesn't even exist outside the bonding events especially in CS4 unless you think being the slightest bit touchy means they have something going on in which case everyone has something going on with everyone else since they all took hot spring together lol.

I dunno, kinda sounds like projection tbh.

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by Andvari:

Yes and you can choose not to pursue romantic endeavors. It's more akin to a select a story you want to watch than self-inserting into a blank protagonist who can't even talk like in Persona.

I mean if you think that's the only reason that's on you lol. The romantic subplot doesn't even exist outside the bonding events especially in CS4 unless you think being the slightest bit touchy means they have something going on in which case everyone has something going on with everyone else since they all took hot spring together lol.

I dunno, kinda sounds like projection tbh.

You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to try to justify it as anything other than a wish-fulfilment feature for the game's core male otaku audience, but the evidence is just not on your side.

- Every single female close friend you have is dateable; the game's bonding mechanics push you to spend all your points per chapter which usually involve three or four girls, all with heart bonding events, at once; the very first event with such an icon will either result in the girl saying she loves you, or thinking to herself "oh, wow, I love Rean?";
- The characters are constantly teasing Rean over how much of a Casanova he is, sometimes literally saying "you have multiple options there, huh?" or something of the sort, all the while the potential love interests will constantly sigh and mumble how dense you are to themselves;
- Since you mentioned hotsprings, the game lets you know that if you go to a hotspring with all the girls in your party at one point of the game, you get a special scene: said scene being all the girls essentially saying "let's all wash Rean together for all he's done for us". Do I need to point out the innuendo?
- The game lets (I'd say even encourages) you complete every heart scene with multiple girls, schedule a date with each of them, and then decide from a list which one you actually want to date.

It's clearly not there to actually tell a love story separate from the agency of the player. And, to be clear, I don't mind harem mechanics. Heck, I'm a huge Persona fan, that system entertains me. But I don't pretend it's there to make any sort of larger point than what it clearly is: a fantasy fulfilment for the core target audience.
The problem I have with CS harem mechanic specifically (other than the fact that it prevents actually interesting and well-developed love stories to happen between these characters, since every girl with a pulse needs to be available for Rean should the player choose it) is that you're an adult man that gets to have romantic moments with minors, most notably your own students.

[aliciarune675]

Originally posted by Funchal99:

Originally posted by Andvari:

Yes and you can choose not to pursue romantic endeavors. It's more akin to a select a story you want to watch than self-inserting into a blank protagonist who can't even talk like in Persona.

I mean if you think that's the only reason that's on you lol. The romantic subplot doesn't even exist outside the bonding events especially in CS4 unless you think being the slightest bit touchy means they have something going on in which case everyone has something going on with everyone else since they all took hot spring together lol.

I dunno, kinda sounds like projection tbh.

You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to try to justify it as anything other than a wish-fulfilment feature for the game's core male otaku audience, but the evidence is just not on your side.

- Every single female close friend you have is dateable; the game's bonding mechanics push you to spend all your points per chapter which usually involve three or four girls, all with heart bonding events, at once; the very first event with such an icon will either result in the girl saying she loves you, or thinking to herself "oh, wow, I love Rean?";
- The characters are constantly teasing Rean over how much of a Casanova he is, sometimes literally saying "you have multiple options there, huh?" or something of the sort, all the while the potential love interests will constantly sigh and mumble how dense you are to themselves;
- Since you mentioned hotsprings, the game lets you know that if you go to a hotspring with all the girls in your party at one point of the game, you get a special scene: said scene being all the girls essentially saying "let's all wash Rean together for all he's done for us". Do I need to point out the innuendo?
- The game lets (I'd say even encourages) you complete every heart scene with multiple girls, schedule a date with each of them, and then decide from a list which one you actually want to date.

It's clearly not there to actually tell a love story separate from the agency of the player. And, to be clear, I don't mind harem mechanics. Heck, I'm a huge Persona fan, that system entertains me. But I don't pretend it's there to make any sort of larger point than what it clearly is: a fantasy fulfilment for the core target audience.
The problem I have with CS harem mechanic specifically (other than the fact that it prevents actually interesting and well-developed love stories to happen between these characters, since every girl with a pulse needs to be available for Rean should the player choose it) is that you're an adult man that gets to have romantic moments with minors, most notably your own students.

Since you seem to have finished the game or at least gotten far in it, it is possible to avoid these 'romantic' events. They sound kind of badly written. Or at least be able to do one of the girls boding events. This page honestly makes me wary to play this series once I finish up The Sky Trilogy

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by aliciarune675:

Since you seem to have finished the game or at least gotten far in it, it is possible to avoid these 'romantic' events. They sound kind of badly written. Or at least be able to do one of the girls boding events. This page honestly makes me wary to play this series once I finish up The Sky Trilogy

All the romantic events are optional bonding events, and they are indicated with a 'heart' icon. Avoid those (you can do the others, which are generally quite good), and you're fine. Also, if you missed the first 'heart' event available for any given girl, the second one will not really be romantic, IIRC.

Also, this whole issue only comes up to any significant degree in CS 4, in the 3 games before that, the bonding events are fine and wholesome, do don't feel like dismissing all of Cold Steel just for this. All in all the bonding events are a pretty minor thing anyway, even if they could've been handled better.

Don't worry too much about stuff like this, and have fun playing the games!