Why is everyone so mad?

[Kyubox]

Now that I think about it, some of the more popular and well loved maps in Mario Maker are the super difficult ones that require PERFECT timing and precision. You know, infamous levels like Pangya that have a 0.001% clear rate. People want to try it out for themselves even if they know they'll never get past the first hurdle and they love watching pros just fly through it.

Why does Mario Maker celebrate difficult levels but MyM demonises it? You don't lose anything if you die and you can always just give up and quit at zero cost to you. But like, that seems to make people angry. It's like when Dark Souls came to PC with the "Prepare to Die" moniker that made everyone into edgy hardcore gamerz sweatlords. It had to be about being the best and hating anything that stopped you from living up to the weird fantasy you built up in your head.

The game's been out for like, 4 days. Why are people trying so hard already? Why can't people just have fun trying something hard, go "oh I guess it's not for me" and go have fun with a different level? Instead we have tons of complaints about anything difficult being a kill room and everyone jumping in to prove how much of a gamer(tm) they are with unhelpful comments like "heh git gud I cleared that level in 15 seconds its sooooooo easy".

Behaviour the game has been out for less than a week, how did it come pre-packaged with a toxic community already?!

[Phares]

I believe it's due to poor match-making.
I don't think Mario Maker effectively forced you to pick from a limited selection of maps, so you could sort through all the maps you wanted to try.
Anytime you jumped into a super difficult map, you knew what you were getting into thus less chance of toxicity, as you only have yourself to blame.

Casuals got to pick casual maps, speedrunners picked speedrunner maps, precise platformers picked precision maps, etc.

[Kyubox]

Originally posted by blazinvire:

I believe it's due to poor match-making.
I don't think Mario Maker effectively forced you to pick from a limited selection of maps, so you could sort through all the maps you wanted to try.
Anytime you jumped into a super difficult map, you knew what you were getting into thus less chance of toxicity, as you only have yourself to blame.

Casuals got to pick casual maps, speedrunners picked speedrunner maps, precise platformers picked precision maps, etc.

Oh that makes sense. Mario Maker let you tag your levels with all sorts of options and you could search for them. Plus the names really helped explain what the concept is. If you see something called 20 second speedrun and its tagged speedrun, you know its going to be a tight and precise speedrun course.

[GatoMancer]

there's a difference between difficult/challenging designs and building something that specifically is impossible for the average or above average player to clear without spending large amounts of time finding a way through just ONE room only to die in the next and redo the work AGAIN.

a certain map w/ a lava room, the only path is a piston bridge firing at random intervals, flame jets covering every step and a wall of guards sniping you comes to mind.

I saw that and left, such designs are not fun to raid in any way.

[GatoMancer]

Originally posted by blazinvire:

I believe it's due to poor match-making.
I don't think Mario Maker effectively forced you to pick from a limited selection of maps, so you could sort through all the maps you wanted to try.
Anytime you jumped into a super difficult map, you knew what you were getting into thus less chance of toxicity, as you only have yourself to blame.

Casuals got to pick casual maps, speedrunners picked speedrunner maps, precise platformers picked precision maps, etc.

A Tagging feature would work wonders for the "social raids" aspect. atm it seems limited to the map name or player name for finding things.

[PureKnix]

This game is quite unique in what it offers and is pulling in people with a variety of interests. It looks and describes like a lot of other games, but isn't quite those.

Looks like a boomer shooter (Quake, etc.)
Sounds like Mario Maker
Markets like a hardcore challenge (Souls, etc.)
Sounds like asymmetrical PvP (especially coming from a dev that previously did one)

What I think is happening is that all these different groups are coming in with expectations that aren't quite fitting with the reality of the game. Most notably getting mad when they come across another player not conforming to their vision of how the game is 'supposed' to be played. Throw in some resource rewards depending on other players' behaviours and we've got mad stew.

(Maybe someone from the DBD community can fill in, because it also sounds like there's some holdover conflict pouring in from that community)

[Lepakko]

There are maps what are almost impossible without lvl up account with all tools available. So game can give you map what you cant beat. Game is early days so there is combos what are just broken and really unfun. But like some say. We all enjoy different things or maps. But atm we just get maps random.

[Darwin]

I don't see angry posts as you describe. I see some that are expressing frustration, but people are generally keeping it pretty mellow. From what I have seen most responses are casual comments and nothing I would consider toxic. I have been pleasantly surprised that this community is not a bunch a trolls and ogres doing as trolls and ogres do.

[Phares]

'Anger' is a result of Unmet Expectations. So the question is, what are people expecting and why aren't they getting what they expected?

Right now the game only really caters to the flexible people, the one's in the middle of the Venn Diagram of Speedrunners and Surgeons and Puzzle-Solvers, because we don't currently have a good way to match people with the content they're looking for.

We need Tags, Titles and Recommendation Algorithms.

[Sid Icarus]

And here I am just wanting my game to stop freezing after every couple raids lol.

[Fenris]

i have the same Problem i Made a Map no one made past it and died in the first two Rooms all the time, People gave up after 2 - 6 Draths all my maps are listed as Brutal, so what are people expecting, i know that my Base is possible because my buddy finnished it in 8 min or less, so are People just bad? one ore two just speed runned my map and died on the last bit then Left and blocked me i guess, it seems that a lot of people are just Bad at the game and blocks people instand, funny thing is my buddy said that my other map was way worse but still people finish that one XD

[Polar Test 53]

i would have to agree with the bad players statement or its just the difference between pc and console inputs. also yeah when i play a brutal map the sopposed highest difficulty i kinda expect it to be hard or at the very least pretty intense

[Aapef]

There is a huge difference between hated levels in MyM and beloved hard levels in Mario Maker.

This difference is the quality. Mario Maker infamous levels are carefuly crafted and studied to be hard but ultimately reward skill.

MyM's started on the wrong foot with most 'superhard' levels being simple trap and guard spam with no creativity behind it. They do not aim to reward skill ultimately and are crafted to offer a challenge. They are crafted, often cheaply, to just throw stuff in a often unfair way to overwhelm players.
They get frustrating but not in a good way. A good frustration comes from you, the raider, thinking that your death was caused by you messing up or being outsmarted.
However these levels create a bad frustration, created by the feeling of unfairness (the 'this is bulls**t" feeling) for a lot of people.

Sadly even if a superhard but good level was to be put online, I can see most people leaving it on the first sight thinking it's yet just an other killbox.
These are also somewhat limited due to resource limitation but this could be adressed by a special "social raid only" build option with no resource limit.

[KHLORIS]

They could make a option where traps are limited per a room for the noobs who suck at the game and don't understand that there is no such thing as an impossible base.

[thebadman]

Originally posted by KHLORIS:

They could make a option where traps are limited per a room for the noobs who suck at the game and don't understand that there is no such thing as an impossible base.

Thats called normal difficulty outpost. Overlap too many traps and you easily end up in "dangerous" difficulty.

[Phares]

Yeah the 'difficulty' ratings in this game doesn't represent actual challenge, just the trap density around the Harvester's Path.
Which means you'll definitely find Brutal maps that are trivial and Normal maps that will murderize everyone, all because you know how to combo your traps and design your bases for psychological warfare.