Arc Barrier needs a counter

[Fiesbert]

I think the Arc Barrier is a little too strong.
I'd like some trap to be a counter to it. Maybe the knifes trap or the fusion hook could make an active barrier explode and kill the user, when modded in a way and non lethal on players without an active barrier.
I frequently watch players make horrendous mistakes and still survive by oopsie-clicking the barrier.
There should be some limitation or counter to it

[Bazongo]

yes arc barrier literally trivializes anything that isnt a kill box. the devs had 0 clue how to make this game lol

move 1 block hold barrier. move 1 block hold barrier. xD nice game

[Nahasno]

If they nerf that barrier many levels will be much harder to play at least for a majority.
As far as i know the Warmonger bashes throught shields.
Else try to get them to use the shield at a piont were you want them to and hit them direktly afterwards. You will still not get every raider and have be careful, if you want no brutal difficulty map, because trap and guard clusters raise the rating fast.

I understand where you are coming from, but you can say the same about the grappling hook how often does somebody save him/herself by grappling.

did you know that you can actually parry sometimes with the bolter gun at least with all upgrades? Theroetically every object you can swipe away with ablade you can shoot and misdirect with the boltergun.

[MessiahofMelons]

Isnt the counter multiple sources of damage / staggered damage?

Its limitation is its cooldown. Honestly im fine with the barrier by itself. But when combined with rush its a bit much

[Fiesbert]

Originally posted by Nahasno:

If they nerf that barrier many levels will be much harder to play at least for a majority.
As far as i know the Warmonger bashes throught shields.
Else try to get them to use the shield at a piont were you want them to and hit them direktly afterwards. You will still not get every raider and have be careful, if you want no brutal difficulty map, because trap and guard clusters raise the rating fast.

I understand where you are coming from, but you can say the same about the grappling hook how often does somebody save him/herself by grappling.

did you know that you can actually parry sometimes with the bolter gun at least with all upgrades? Theroetically every object you can swipe away with ablade you can shoot and misdirect with the boltergun.

It counters everything. It even destroys impaler traps you are standing next to

[Nahasno]

Originally posted by MessiahofMelons:

Isnt the counter multiple sources of damage / staggered damage?

Its limitation is its cooldown. Honestly im fine with the barrier by itself. But when combined with rush its a bit much

The only problem i have with the barrier is that if you try to make maps or mapzones to counter barrier users, they tend to get very trap heavy and raiders without the barrier may be offended by 2-4 traps firing at them from different directions and angles.
You need more than one such trap setup to "stop" a speedo with shield and even then there is a 50% chance that you won't get him/her.

I mean just try to get a raider to go somewhere, you want him to go is difficult. That's one of there resaons, except that exploit why some use so many corrosive cubes.

[Ccrack]

isnt the brute a counter to it? if someone gives up their melee weapon then getting squashed between 2 armoured brutes is going to be tough

if they give up a ranged weapon instead then just have armoured guards covering each other

iv not unlocked the barrier yet, but i honestly dont see myself using it if i did the basic sword and gun is just too usefull all around

[Nahasno]

Originally posted by Fiesbert:

It counters everything. It even destroys impaler traps you are standing next to

My bad...
I have had that problem with warmongers sometimes, i could see the shield bubble around me and died by a warmonger hit, but maybe it' a lag in activation time. So i assumed because they are so heavy the can break the flimsy looking shield.

[A Disembodied Intelligence]

Flamethrowers counter it nicely, as their flames spew out for longer than the Barrier lasts, so the Raider has to get out of the flames ASAP, rather than tanking the blow and then shooting the trap.

The Plasma Cube's aoe Plasma Ball mod also does this but is much less effective without spam.

I haven't tested the new mod on Boltshot's effectiveness against them yet though (Relentless I think it's called?), I think in theory that should beat them too as it makes Boltshot's attack last longer, like the flamethrower, so the Barrier might run out before the last bolt connects.

But yeah I think that's it for standalone traps that beat it for now.
I wouldn't be against another trap being able to beat it, like the Impaler.
Could be fun.

But that being said, I don't particularly mind it being on the strong side either, personally.
I think it's fine to have a slightly overtuned tool in your game to help out those who aren't particularly good at your game yet (especially with how unforgiving some maps can be).

Plus there are crafty setups you can make to still beat them by getting them to waste it the moment you hit them with another trap (or have fun baiting them with unpassable Corrosive Cubes lol), so it's not unbeatable by any means, just, as you say, a tad strong.

Will be interesting to see if they make any changes going forward, or if it'll just get powercrept by the addition of more traps in the months to come that can also beat it like the 2/3 above.

edit- Oh yeah! And the Bomb Dropping trap is good against it too, as if they use the Arc Shield in response to the Trap's activation, the barrier will actually run out BEFORE the bombs all explode lol.

[Ap2000]

The way they need to nerf it is by limiting its uses per run.
I'd say 3, definitely not more than 4. However, only deplete the use if the shield actually blocks something.

I'm always amazed at how the shield casuals die though, running into a room blind, blocking the first attack and then just running and hookshotting around like a spaz. They often don't even understand what killed them and refuse to learn.
Of course there are also the incredibly slow shield user that plays the game almost like a turn-based game where they move one block, then immediately deploy their shield and wait for it to recharge before they move any further. It looks like an incredbly unfun and tedious way to play.

[Nahasno]

Originally posted by Ap2000:

The way they need to nerf it is by limiting its uses per run.
I'd say 3, definitely not more than 4. However, only deplete the use if the shield actually blocks something.

I'm always amazed at how the shield casuals die though, running into a room blind, blocking the first attack and then just running and hookshotting around like a spaz. They often don't even understand what killed them and refuse to learn.
Of course there are also the incredibly slow shield user that plays the game almost like a turn-based game where they move one block, then immediately deploy their shield and wait for it to recharge before they move any further. It looks like an incredbly unfun and tedious way to play.

Thats by the way one reason most people hate corrosivecubes - that stupid exploit is the other which didn' make it better.

I'm sry but that's the easiest way to get them to deploy the shield when you as a builder want them to, without using overkill - get them to jump throught a corrosivecube just don't aim for the cube aim for the spots around it.

[Ap2000]

Originally posted by Nahasno:

Thats by the way one reason most people hate corrosivecubes - that stupid exploit is the other which didn' make it better.

I'm not sure what you mean about corrosive cubes in relation to my comment.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Ccrack:

isnt the brute a counter to it? if someone gives up their melee weapon then getting squashed between 2 armoured brutes is going to be tough

if they give up a ranged weapon instead then just have armoured guards covering each other

iv not unlocked the barrier yet, but i honestly dont see myself using it if i did the basic sword and gun is just too usefull all around

I can tell you right now i gave up all melee weapons right at the start and am currently ranked under the top 500.
Guns are by far the better option in this game. In fact, if the creator spams several Warmongers on you, you are dead with melee but stay alive with guns.
They can clip hit (hit through each other), which means you cant kill a bunch of them with the sword, but the ranged perks allow me to kill a dozen in under 3 seconds.

I created a dumb test map for killing guards fast and spam over 15 warmongers on small spaces on raiders.
Fact is, i can clear the horde with my bows in a few seconds while all with swords just get utterly crushed, even with shields and grenades.
Swords are garbage. Their only use is in combination with the Wastelander.

The Arc barrier is pretty ok right now.
It occupies a weapon slot, which stripps you off a few really useful options.
Gaurds essentially counter the Arc Barrier.
Any Brutal Map will put an Arc Barrier User into tough situations because he cant counter long range traps and repeated use traps plus guards.
Which are typical situations on large maps.
Whats he gonna do with a room full of grabbers, incinerators and guards anyway after he wasted his 3 shots.
Or wait, are you gonna bring a sword against these armor meta?

[The Highlander]

I cannot comprehend how they thought it was a good Idea to have it limitless-use. Shouldn't it be obvious how omega op that is? Please nerf asap. They should either limit it to, as already suggested before, 3-4 uses per life (reset after death) or make it have a huge cooldown like 2 or even 3 minutes or something... but yeah, it needs to be adjusted by the devs, imo.

[Ccrack]

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

I can tell you right now i gave up all melee weapons right at the start and am currently ranked under the top 500.
Guns are by far the better option in this game. In fact, if the creator spams several Warmongers on you, you are dead with melee but stay alive with guns.
They can clip hit (hit through each other), which means you cant kill a bunch of them with the sword, but the ranged perks allow me to kill a dozen in under 3 seconds.

I created a dumb test map for killing guards fast and spam over 15 warmongers on small spaces on raiders.
Fact is, i can clear the horde with my bows in a few seconds while all with swords just get utterly crushed, even with shields and grenades.
Swords are garbage. Their only use is in combination with the Wastelander.

i dont quite agree, the sword is a bit finiky, but you can aim headshots with it to insta kill any armoured guy from outside their melee range, or if you have any room at all you can simply sidestep them.
2 guns is definitely better than the arc barrier, makes ammo acid pits much less usefull too

[Nahasno]

Originally posted by The Sarah:

I haven't tested the new mod on Boltshot's effectiveness against them yet though (Relentless I think it's called?), I think in theory that should beat them too as it makes Boltshot's attack last longer, like the flamethrower, so the Barrier might run out before the last bolt connects.

A Boltthrower behind a holocube at max. distance without mods does the job, I just can't evaluate if it's the vanishing cube or the activation of the boltthrower that triggers them to shield but that's a combo and not even a strong one.

With the relentless mod it depends since its staggered - the wider the distance to the target the more spread in length, which rises the duration of the barage but you can actually stand unshielded in some parts of a corridor and not get hit at all. Maybe tow or three with the same aimpoint.

Incinerators i like and i hate them both as a raider and as a builder.
Nifty trap with unlimited ammo but the physics of the flames are break my immerson everytime.
The flamegraphics are neat but man its stupid that flames don't go a little bit around corners in case the aim point is a wall not at max range. And since im a ranged player, i find them only annoying in greater masses.