grapple hook is op

[Aonly9470]

The grapple hook in this game, while can be used in great effect in some map designs, really encourage corridor gameplay or the grappling hook will make the raiding of outposts too easy, allowing you to skip most of the challenge by just using the environmental bedrock

[MessiahofMelons]

It is not op it is a core game mechanic. Of people can speed through your base that means your base wasn't good enough.

[Aonly9470]

when I can skip 90% of the brutal developer base through the grapple hook it's a core game mechanic that needs updating

[JustAlexAi]

Originally posted by Aonly9470:

when I can skip 90% of the brutal developer base through the grapple hook it's a core game mechanic that needs updating

That's why you need to use pistons, flamethrowers and hooks in your map. Pistons especially

[MessiahofMelons]

Originally posted by Aonly9470:

when I can skip 90% of the brutal developer base through the grapple hook it's a core game mechanic that needs updating

The developer bases are not that hard. They are designed for fun and visuals over difficulty.

You say skip, I say beat. Why is speeding past worse than slowly destroying all traps.

The shield gun could maybe use some balance, but the grapple is not.an issue

[Damo Martin]

grapple not the issue

[NightUndead]

Originally posted by MessiahofMelons:

It is not op it is a core game mechanic. Of people can speed through your base that means your base wasn't good enough.

Just because it is a core game mechanic doesn't mean it can't be OP.....
In any case, personally I think the speed of it should be lowered a bit, or that you shouldn't maintain the speed when you "jump" off of it. As it is the main reason why rushing through most bases works.

Whether or not "you base wasn't good enough" is a different matter, but when most defenses trigger as slowly as they do, the speed of the hook makes it difficult to make anything interesting while also taking care of rushing.

[AsyxA]

Most of the traps activate with such a delay, that they are only effective if something makes the assaulter stop in front of them. You can literally walk through most of it as long as you don't stop and fire at obvious things in front of you.

To me the problem isn't the grappling hook, but the trap delay. You can literally walk in front of the basic spike trap, take a second to react, then still melee the trap or use countermeasures. The assaulter can make mistakes and easily get away with it.

As far as I can tell from 3 days of playing (mostly building): Without advanced trap upgrades/combinations/capacity the builder has to rely on human error, which results in experienced players breezing through a base while beginners easily get their pace disrupted, resulting in a lot of deaths. This may work as intended, but makes building not as fun or engaging when starting out without the necessary tools to not rely on inexperience.

For me it turned into considering the psychological effects for placement to disrupt the pace, which I enjoyed greatly. Still ... for most of the bases it would have been enough to just keep walking to make it through.

The most success I had was with people tumbling into semi-hidden lava pits. Why? Because that trap doesn't allow you to recover and has almost no delay to kill. Unlike anything else I had unlocked.

Greatly enjoyed the beta, but I have mixed feelings about this. Once the playerbase gets experience, most of the (not impossible killbox) defenses will become ineffective.

[MessiahofMelons]

Originally posted by NightUndead:

Originally posted by MessiahofMelons:

It is not op it is a core game mechanic. Of people can speed through your base that means your base wasn't good enough.

Just because it is a core game mechanic doesn't mean it can't be OP.....
In any case, personally I think the speed of it should be lowered a bit, or that you shouldn't maintain the speed when you "jump" off of it. As it is the main reason why rushing through most bases works.

Whether or not "you base wasn't good enough" is a different matter, but when most defenses trigger as slowly as they do, the speed of the hook makes it difficult to make anything interesting while also taking care of rushing.

It does when it is op vs player made bases. Hes only complaining about it because people can speed by his bases. In reality you can build your base to stop people doing it. Because its a core mechanic.

Ofc it could be op. If it killed enemies, granted invincibility, let you phase through walls. But as it is now its not op its just a game mechanic

Like you can run past most traps. Grapple not even needed

[𝅺]

Originally posted by Aonly9470:

when I can skip 90% of the brutal developer base through the grapple hook it's a core game mechanic that needs updating

pfff hook wont help u in my outpost

[Trichouette]

Originally posted by Aonly9470:

when I can skip 90% of the brutal developer base through the grapple hook it's a core game mechanic that needs updating

You can skip a lot of bases by running & grappling.

The core mechanic isn't an issue.
The builder's inability to counter this strategy is the issue.

It's hard to counter a player that just speed through your base, but with time it gets easier with the knowledge you acquire from looking at other players' outposts, and with the traps/guards/mods you unlock.

[MadArtillery]

You clearly haven't tried the speed boost consumable if you think grapple is a big problem lol. Especially since speed boosts stack. Important to build points in your base to catch speedrunners though. Long hallways with arrows, body blocker guard with traps, homing spikes, ooh and of course the best guard, mister grenade, Also leave ramps for your guards to follow the runner as when they all clump up in a hallway behind the runner they are in for a bad time, especially with a lot of armour. Never underestimate a mass of guards following someone.

[HardlyWalken]

An essential mod/upgrade that you should unlock nearly immediately is Death Piston with Blockade. A second one is Unstable, so they aren't all on the same timing.

Then make choke points using these. Speedrunners will have to stop and deal with the traps.

Another good one is the Claw Trap facing down a hallway that a Raider will have their back to. This only works if you have the mod that makes it shoot out faster (I forget the name) and Greased Chains, and it doesn't work if they're on Raider crack (speed boost) but it's pretty cheap.

It's just a fact that even if you have a big open base you'll have to have one-square chokepoints to meaningfully throttle Raiders. Otherwise you're going to have a bad time.

[Soon Dead]

I agree that the trap activation should be quicker. I have managed to miss a few traps by unknowingly moving before they trigger. Maybe an upgrade?

[[Glw]WDNeeyo35pFPSGamerBTWnotTTV]

It's way too easy to move out of the way of traps. The grappling hook is OP but I think it should be left as it is and traps should be tweaked instead. I think the game would be better and would let you be more creative with trap placement if traps had a better area of damage. It's why trap upgrades like homing bolts are very powerful to the point of being a necessity, and in general traps like hooks and corrosive cubes that limit mobility being so important.

[Ratsplat]

Everyone talks about builders being better and countering this, but then when they do, they just get threatened with being blocked. I'm gonna have to make a checklist to ensure every base is easy enough to not get blocked but hard enough to not be won with W.