Inbreeding/Incest (since this is compared to CK)

[Panzerfanlol]

(someone has to ask this question so ig I will) Since there is a family tree and relations (cousins, distant family etc) what will be the limit to inbreeding? Will there be like "traditions" related to such stuff aswell or not? Will this feature be left out all together? I'd like to make a space-habsburgs where all of my neighbours are related to me somehow lol
ontop of that - since there is a possibility of having your family on the throne of another faction will you be able to "claim" their faction as apart of yours or something like that?

[glenpawley]

You can marry blood relatives together, but this is dishonorable. Similarly you can fall in love and have an affair with a blood relative, but if the secret comes out your reputation will tank.

There is no mechanism to claim another faction if a family member is its duke. That might be an interesting mechanic. What happens right now is that they are much likelier to act in your interest. Among other things, that means they are likelier to become your vassal if they are under threat.

[Genoism]

Sadly I think the trajectory of actual mankind right now is that we'll have perfected gene modification to a high level...well before we colonize space (assuming we all don't kill each other long before then).

And given the trajectory of how relationships are moving I can totally foresee a future in which incest isn't even shunned or medically dangerous.

I think a more realistic scenario would be where some groups would shun such relationships while others encourage it and everything in between.

But back to the game I think that this shouldn't even be an option if only for the sake of not making incest socially acceptable in any form.

[Pyoro-2]

Since this is scifi does it actually do anything with the idea, or is it really just "medieval attitudes in space"? It's boring enough that it's always inexplicable nobility in these types of narrations, but maybe at least there's some aspect that's "yeah, that's scifi-like, that's totally different from what we are used to"?

[Finarfin]

Publicado originalmente por Genoism:

But back to the game I think that this shouldn't even be an option if only for the sake of not making incest socially acceptable in any form.

This seems a strange place to draw a line in the sand over fiction.

[Panzerfanlol]

tbh if incest wasnt bad for us (forobviousreasons) i think it'd be the norm and there'd be alot more "tribalism" between families and countries in the real world.

[Pomf666]

Publicado originalmente por Genoism:

Sadly I think the trajectory of actual mankind right now is that we'll have perfected gene modification to a high level...well before we colonize space (assuming we all don't kill each other long before then).

And given the trajectory of how relationships are moving I can totally foresee a future in which incest isn't even shunned or medically dangerous.

I think a more realistic scenario would be where some groups would shun such relationships while others encourage it and everything in between.

It is like this in the Conqueror of the Sun series, where the IRF Empire legalizes incest, but that doesn't mean everyone actually takes part in it.

Publicado originalmente por Finarfin:

Publicado originalmente por Genoism:

But back to the game I think that this shouldn't even be an option if only for the sake of not making incest socially acceptable in any form.

This seems a strange place to draw a line in the sand over fiction.

I agree with the point that it is a game and fiction. I am not trying to be a jerk here, but it seems extra strange because by your same logic, does that make the murder and genocide that you commit in a galactic scale game socially acceptable?

Ironically, in the real world, right now, although murder/genocide are basically illegal universally, there are a number of countries where incest is 100% legal (google it). I don't mean just cousin x cousin either. But much like the other fictional example I gave or even you suggested, in reality very few people do it even when it is legal.

In the game, it does punish you for engaging in incest with loss of honor. Which seems to fit your view to shun it.

And if it wasn't in-game, people would mod it in any way like other games. Which makes sense really because this game is basically feudal medieval times in space. And again even in real history, there was this concept of "keeping the royal blood pure".

[SDSkinner2011]

Publicado originalmente por Genoism:

Sadly I think the trajectory of actual mankind right now is that we'll have perfected gene modification to a high level...well before we colonize space (assuming we all don't kill each other long before then).

And given the trajectory of how relationships are moving I can totally foresee a future in which incest isn't even shunned or medically dangerous.

I think a more realistic scenario would be where some groups would shun such relationships while others encourage it and everything in between.

But back to the game I think that this shouldn't even be an option if only for the sake of not making incest socially acceptable in any form.

The problem with incest is not limited to just genetic damage; if it was, people wouldn't care (since you are just screwing up your own family). The issue is Consanguinity aka clannishness. This can't be fixed with genetic engineering.

[davidb11]

What does clannishness have to do with incest? "behavior that is friendly and helpful only to other people in your group, but not to people outside the group: "

That's not a thing incest would do at all.
I'm not sure how you got that.

Also, Genoism, Earth is not Krypton from DC comics, we're not going to get rid of the icky factors anytime this century. :P

[Neon Robot]

Part of the fun of games like these is exploring all the bizarre and interesting concepts you can play with. I've made all sorts of insane things in CK and this game seems like fertile ground to play around with the same.

Also, Genoism, reality is separate from fiction. Just cause I want to conquer Spain with a nation of Inbred, Albino, Cannibals doesn't mean I want this to happen in real life. It's just for fun.

[Fogey Gamer]

This is where a deep game would have different people having different beliefs. Not just sweeping statements.

[SDSkinner2011]

Publicado originalmente por davidb11:

What does clannishness have to do with incest? "behavior that is friendly and helpful only to other people in your group, but not to people outside the group: "

That's not a thing incest would do at all.
I'm not sure how you got that.

Also, Genoism, Earth is not Krypton from DC comics, we're not going to get rid of the icky factors anytime this century. :P

Because incest increases how much you are related to other members of your family relative to other people in society. We can see it with the link between high levels of cousin marriage and clannishness.

[davidb11]

Uh. How does that work exactly?
Sorry, but I'm not seeing a link between incest and making a clan better connected.

[Neon Robot]

Publicado originalmente por davidb11:

Uh. How does that work exactly?
Sorry, but I'm not seeing a link between incest and making a clan better connected.

It's a way of ensuring that only those within your closely related line inherit claims. A wide and genetically broad family means that those claims have a wider range of people they can fall to, especially over time. Limiting breeding ensures clearer lines of inheritance along with clearer positions in alliances. It's why everyone from the Egyptian Royals to Medieval Europeans practiced some level of this. You look at noble family trees and there is quite a bit of "closeness".

In a similar way it's kind of surprising a game about a Space Feudal society doesn't actually have more of it. Either way, it's a weird element of history.

[zgrssd]

You start the game with a "Close Relative". But we are talking typical Habsburg - you might get a genetic disorder named after you - Level, not full on Ptolomey family pretzel.

[petera1289]

Seems like the game strikes a pretty good/historical balance ... tracking genetic vs in-law closeness ... allowing closeness but only penalising 1st cousin or closer

"You look at noble family trees and there is quite a bit of "closeness"."

Perhaps nearness rather than blood closeness is more accurate ? I suspect a lot of this closeness was in-laws and once/twice removed, probably with half sister/brother or milkman stages in there too

1st cousin marraige required papal approval. Other cultures allowed cousin marraiges but usually widows etc ... not with the primary intention of procreation