Thoughts on Azar? (spoilers)

[PK]

Storywise I mean. Any sympathy for illusion sword man?
I get the whole clone plight and being victim of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ situation, but for me the birdcage ending just hammered home what a shortsighted egoist he was.

[Zetact]

To put it in brief, he's somewhere in top right of the "Suffering - How Much They Deserved It" chart.

[Tower]

Kinda the whole last major plot point felt like they took a neat idea from CrossCode and then explored it worse...

[Cat]

I'm not sure the game wants you to feel sorry for him or think he's an absolute moron who deserves what he got. Honestly I'm on the latter side as I honestly can't' stand him. No amount of sad backstory will help his case.

[thateclipse]

No matter what version of Azar we're stuck with, it seems that he's not the best at seeing the big picture. The opposite of Clyne, whose vision of the big picture means that he misses the details in front of him.

[Samseng Yik]

Mostly just "omg real life people create virtual us for their benefit".
So "we virtual people should never forgive real people"

Aka : what happen if you let children handle crisis

[Manslayer]

It has nothing to do with forgiving the real people and everything to do with not willing to sacrifice your own life for the future of others. It's not about spite, or anger, it's about not wanting to die, then by the end they accept they must die to continue to future, even if it means they don't get a future or recongnition.

[PK]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

It's not about spite, or anger, it's about not wanting to die

I'd argue spite was a big part of it to begin with, at least for PM Azar. Threatening to delete the project was way too impulsive given his role. No consideration for either humanity in the real world or investigators coming to terms with their virtual existence.

[Pingularity]

It makes him better as a villain because his motive is understandable but doesnt redeem his actions. He's human.
Why should he care for a world he will never be a part of, one that is arguably already near dead, when his only award is the death of not only himself, but everyone he knows and loves?
Why should he give what Clyne wants when he vehemently hated the man enough to make such a cruel revenge.
He thinks and cares only in the present, emotionally. It's a thought process that resonates with a lot of people.
Phoenix and Lucy actions answer that question with - We already have, we already will die, make sure something greater outlives us.

[SkyKing]

Originally posted by Pingularity:

It makes him better as a villain because his motive is understandable but doesnt redeem his actions. He's human.
Why should he care for a world he will never be a part of, one that is arguably already near dead, when his only award is the death of not only himself, but everyone he knows and loves?
Why should he give what Clyne wants when he vehemently hated the man enough to make such a cruel revenge.
He thinks and cares only in the present, emotionally. It's a thought process that resonates with a lot of people.
Phoenix and Lucy actions answer that question with - We already have, we already will die, make sure something greater outlives us.

The hate comes as he found out the truth about the VR-World and i think he found out the truth about the second Stella too(this is the Reason why he has brought the deleted Stella back). In my eyes have Azar other Ideas then Clyne about AI and wanted them too live. He what not against him from the beginning but his actions angered him. Azar is not a real bad guy. BTW i am not complete sure that Azar is the Betrayer. I think Ilya is more Psycho for this role. And what happens with the second Clyne-Version that what mensioned.

[Zetact]

In some of the scenes early in the timeline you can tell Azar is a bit reluctant for his game to be retooled into the Ark Project so it is definite that Clyne's decision to wipe the virtual personalities simply so he doesn't need to confront the moral implications was a tipping point.

Originally posted by SkyKing:

BTW i am not complete sure that Azar is the Betrayer. I think Ilya is more Psycho for this role. And what happens with the second Clyne-Version that what mensioned.

With regards to who the betrayer is, all of the investigators have differing levels of having their names cleared with the only one who isn't fully cleared being Narhan, but in his case the circumstantial evidence about the betrayer's motives, skills, and actions don't cleanly match with Narhan.
In any case, it isn't Azar for a simple reason that in the Mafia Game the betrayer says that he will participate but singles out Azar to be the one who will be set to win the game, in no small part because Phoenix is unlikely to trust the betrayer with the PM permissions.

If the Fate plotline were kept in the final game Narhan likely could be the betrayer, but for the final release of the game the evidence points to it being an unnamed figure who is not a part of the main cast.

[TheVampire100]

Originally posted by PK:

Storywise I mean. Any sympathy for illusion sword man?
I get the whole clone plight and being victim of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ situation, but for me the birdcage ending just hammered home what a shortsighted egoist he was.

No pity from me. While I can somehwat understand the feeling of despair over the fact that you are just a copy of someone else, his logic is flawed and he lets his ego and emotions get in the way.
The main reason I hate Azar so much is because all the ♥♥♥♥ he pulls through the game. When he doesn't know he is a clone he does all kind of aweful things to other characters during the loop like cutting Hein in half because he wasn't following orders or leaving Lucy at the Crimson Wilderness to die when he got what he wanted.
From his point of view he justifies this by being stuck in a loop and his actions don't matter on the next loop.
But compare this to Phoenix, the best character in the game. She decided that even if it's a loop, she will always help people if possible, be kind and after seeing Lucy in the Crimson Wilderness, she decides that this madness has to stop and tries to find a way to break the loop and return to Cly<nes original plan.

And this applies to main Azar as well (aka Program Master). He decides that the best way to create a "perfect world" is to create a post-apocalyptic setting in which the majority of people are stuck in the Ark while only a few "main characters" get to travel in the wilderness and becoming heroes. Not to mention that in his quest for petty revenge he forces the INNOCENT daughter of Clyne to constantly kill her own father. Of course she doesn't know that but that does not justify his actions.
And that's not all, he also messed with the personalities and memories of every other playable character, sometimes even creating very disturbing results for "plot reasons". Like dividing Stella into two different beings as twins with mirrored personalities.

It is clear that Azar views his fellow AI companions as nothing but tools for his end. After the revelation that he is just an AI construct, he thought his existence is meaningless (which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, his memories will live on in the real Azar) and he enforced this type of thinking on all the other characters. The way he treats everyone just makes him a huge hypocrite because he does exactly that type of aweful thing that he hates Clyne for.

I'm glad we that we got to kick his butt twice for the finale, once as his clone self and then again as his Program Master version.

[Budget Hero 4 Hire]

I'm not entirely sure if I'm more adverse to his actions, or the fact he's constantly front and center every time you turn around, often making Lucy a vehicle for his own dramatic moments. Which, I suppose, is kind of the point.

While there are some redeeming moments in the past, that's where it starts and stops. Sure, the betrayer is involved, but he's still trash. Wether it is reveling in the spotlight where he's painstakingly crafted himself the hero in a fan fiction loop, or deciding just how to manipulate and have Lucy grow the next, everything is in service of his own desires and to fuel his ego.

The fact that he's even around with the extended ending is ridiculous; Pressel would have split his head open with a lead pipe first thing after being thawed out. Then lit the squishy mess on fire. Then salted and spread the ashes into the winds. Probably after spitting on them.

[OG.UA SAPUTRA]

Originally posted by Budget Hero 4 Hire:

I'm not entirely sure if I'm more adverse to his actions, or the fact he's constantly front and center every time you turn around, often making Lucy a vehicle for his own dramatic moments. Which, I suppose, is kind of the point.

While there are some redeeming moments in the past, that's where it starts and stops. Sure, the betrayer is involved, but he's still trash. Wether it is reveling in the spotlight where he's painstakingly crafted himself the hero in a fan fiction loop, or deciding just how to manipulate and have Lucy grow the next, everything is in service of his own desires and to fuel his ego.

The fact that he's even around with the extended ending is ridiculous; Pressel would have split his head open with a lead pipe first thing after being thawed out. Then lit the squishy mess on fire. Then salted and spread the ashes into the winds. Probably after spitting on them.

who is the betrayer really ? and why did he/she want to betray it in the first place ? completed the game but fell like misisng some link

[TheVampire100]

Originally posted by OG.UA SAPUTRA:

Originally posted by Budget Hero 4 Hire:

I'm not entirely sure if I'm more adverse to his actions, or the fact he's constantly front and center every time you turn around, often making Lucy a vehicle for his own dramatic moments. Which, I suppose, is kind of the point.

While there are some redeeming moments in the past, that's where it starts and stops. Sure, the betrayer is involved, but he's still trash. Wether it is reveling in the spotlight where he's painstakingly crafted himself the hero in a fan fiction loop, or deciding just how to manipulate and have Lucy grow the next, everything is in service of his own desires and to fuel his ego.

The fact that he's even around with the extended ending is ridiculous; Pressel would have split his head open with a lead pipe first thing after being thawed out. Then lit the squishy mess on fire. Then salted and spread the ashes into the winds. Probably after spitting on them.

who is the betrayer really ? and why did he/she want to betray it in the first place ? completed the game but fell like misisng some link

It's hinted that a person named Haru, a researcher that worked on the Ark project but had a rather minor role in the project. During an incident she left in a coma but when they put her mind into the Ark, they deleted the memory of it, so she does not fall into despair. She apparently did find out however and was pissed about it, trying to sabotage the project, mainly because if she would be put back into her body, she would stay in a coma.
There isn't much about her backstory to be honest and the game makes it clear, that her origin isn't important, only what impact she had. She was also close to Azar, which is why she suggested him for the role of the Program Master

[OG.UA SAPUTRA]

Originally posted by TheVampire100:

Originally posted by OG.UA SAPUTRA:

who is the betrayer really ? and why did he/she want to betray it in the first place ? completed the game but fell like misisng some link

It's hinted that a person named Haru, a researcher that worked on the Ark project but had a rather minor role in the project. During an incident she left in a coma but when they put her mind into the Ark, they deleted the memory of it, so she does not fall into despair. She apparently did find out however and was pissed about it, trying to sabotage the project, mainly because if she would be put back into her body, she would stay in a coma.
There isn't much about her backstory to be honest and the game makes it clear, that her origin isn't important, only what impact she had. She was also close to Azar, which is why she suggested him for the role of the Program Master

i see as in the epilogue/real world ending you can see azar tending to haru, though i dont see huz ? do you know where she is ?