Why is the "new content" with Azar so f**king hard

[mickyubi]

I tried to do the Azar boss fight in hope mode and i just can't. Even with hope mode lvl 3.
I just keep getting killed. It's a shame because at first i really though that this boss fight was epic but now after 4 hour trying i am just tired of him.

There is just too much to deal with. Every round you have to deal with contant sword spawning spam, exclude card, block healing, stop a character from doing anything on top of having to deal with a mechanic that force you to not use you fixed ability because you just can't make lucy's deflect go up of your list. And if lucy's deflect is not on top you take around 5x the number of skill he cut and you get f**k.

And did i mensioned that he as at least 3 phase and even if you get him low enough to change phase you still have to stay in that phase for 1 more turn because generaly what happen, is that you don't enough energy to use lucy's attack skill so you have to pass the turn and on top of that lucy's skill always trigger after his big attack...

Phase 3... bro i am so tired of not being able to do anything without getting constantly aoe everytime i try to do something. On top of that you still have to deal with the mechanic of phase 1 and 2. Also, after 4 hour of choosing how i am gonna get f**k in the ass, i would rather not have the choice! this thing get tiring very quick!

I don't want anyone to feel offended or anything like that, this is just what i am feeling right now. Anger, fustration, dissapointment... Please balance this overtune boss. It feel like i am fighting a cheater and that there is no way of winning.

Am i the only one that feel that ways?

[Samseng Yik]

I haven't met him.
But I hope boss design shouldn't be "only certain setup is beatable"

[Melephy]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

I haven't met him.
But I hope boss design shouldn't be "only certain setup is beatable"

He is not a "only certain setup is beatable" boss. i think he is beatable with all characters, but every characters need certain skills or you simply wont win. Attackers need ignore taunts + aoe, supports need debuff removal and aoe heals and defenders need to be able to redirect attacks. further you need tons of mana to be able to deflect his attacks or he excludes so much skills.

Viable team imo johan with hookshot dupes, huz to overheal from fatal blows, miss chain for fatal blow immunity and taunt.

I havent beaten third phase tho cuz he and his summons are just cheating. but this setup has beaten 2nd phase without issue.

[Hyung_12]

I just fixed 2nd Phase Lucy Skill mana Cost!
thank you feedback
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1188930/view/3640628950029389299

[Kymedorf]

I do not agree, I didn't have big problems with Azar Blanco (forma de espada roja) even before this small nerf of today. Sure, I lost the first try on Expert beause I accidentally removed the Deflect and my Huz had no healing skills except 1 Whip of Healing +1 extended heal normal because she refused to roll any heals, but I knew I deserved it.
I've fought him three times after and won every time so far. Though I admit he's a tough guy and it's just a matter of time before I lose a few times, I don't really want him nerfed, that mana reduction to his Lucy duel skill is enough. In fact I wouldn't even mind a slight buff to boss Azar if healers got a balance pass so the ones with weak AoE heals get boosted

[Drunken Dwarf]

I want to preface this by saying the boss is definitely the hardest content they have released - don't feel bad if it takes a lot of tries. Also TLDR: Try and prepare for the fight in such a way that your team could function with any one of the four members being eliminated- because they very much can AND will be by third phase in a lot of cases. Plan your deck around this theory and you will see the fight become much more consistent with or without losses in the party.

I am currently in testing of a few teams to beat him with every character on expert although if you want a personal suggestion from so far - I can confirm my Classic Try-hard Team :tm: of Trisha / Charon / Joey / Chain still absolutely annihilates him. Main plan revolving around heart pierce and especially Charons synergy upgrade for all enemies taking damage equal to their pain debuffs, which not only gives aoe early on it destroys the swords harshly and the heart pierce upgraded can EASILY do upwards of 100+ damage per cast which shreds his hp especially with mirror images. Then using chain to continuously increase duration and magnitude of the damage over time effects.

I guess general stuff - he is very much *not* a "only certain setups beatable" boss in my opinion, in fact I feel he is the exact opposite - No one setup is perfect to beat him he has preparations for EVERYTHING. A good deck for defeating him should have at least two plans for success. For example with the party above, lets say rng is REALLY against my favor and trisha just gets SMOKED turn 1/2, it can still function around playing defensively and stacking heals from charon+joey while chains keeps dots running with playing with fire. Or alternatively if Joey/Charon get struck down, chains still has sustain along with trisha heal and the remaining survivor between charon/joey.

As for the boss itself strategy wise - it is critical to take the fight slowly it is very much like the forgotten king where each move can absolutely make the entire fight. First phase is the time to stack up any passive rares/buffs/debuffs before the real problem begins - usually not the worst phase as long as you read all the effects carefully. Realistically the sword spam is pretty minimal outside of fantasy - but he doesn't have THAT much CC resist you can absolutely stun move/potion him out of that move, as well as any other move outside of third phase for that matter. Furthermore, if you can't prevent it you do have the option of *intentionally* using the marked cards before fantasy then using the lucy clear on them, you get 3 (4 on normal) burning one isn't a big deal in my experience. Or honestly if you have any good aoe pain moves or hein the swords become a non-issue instantly.

Second phase is definitely the roughest phase by far imo - key is having a deck that doesn't just rely exclusively on one synergy/effect, you will have to make sacrifices in this phase and again don't forget if he isnt currently resistant ABSOLUTELY stun him out of the deletion move whenever possible. Move deflect as high as possible of course, but bear in mind that losing a couple cards isn't or at least shouldn't be the end of the world so long as you have the healing for it. Along with that the "Recycle" lucy skill is excellent for this phase to force deflect up when possible to prevent damage. The worst part of the phase is definitely playing the lucy card but that was just changed which helps a lot - still have to tank the big hit though so make sure you have high max mana going in or a mana potion ready - or just save a stun/barrier for it.

Third phase seems broken at first glance, how can you cope with having three allies smashed three times per turn? The answer is simpler than you might think: Simply don't do that. His "effective hp" in this phase is lower than the others, and with his aoe attack hitting all but the top skill owner, if you let the party clear to 3 or in my experience 2 being the healer and tank usually - his damage suddenly becomes pitiful going from 9 hits to only 3 per turn. Is it strange and somewhat cruel to use two of your party members as sacrificial glass cannons? Probably, but fact is trying to tank through 9 hits per turn is just not happening usually.

Now ok, will I fully admit the fight is ABSOLUTELY TOUGH AS NAILS yes it very much is especially on expert. But that said, given how long he has been hyped up and the fact we know from cutscenes he can pretty much just waltz up and smoke TFK like he was a toy I would almost be disappointed if he wasn't insanely strong. But I hope these thoughts might be useful in some way(?)

[Doctor]

You're not allowed to use Phoenix, because he would cheese the entire sword spam mechanic

[mickyubi]

Ty guys, i learned a lot. I will give him another try. Hopefully i will succeed.

Thank you to the dev for listening, reponding and for actually change something based on player's feelback. Also, i am sorry if i crossed the line with my post (with the slur and all). I was really mad about it, not because the game may (or not) need of balancing, but because i really love this game and the idea that i could never experience the full story because of a road block really got into my head.



Hey! I got an idea. Since i only complained about the bad things from that fight, let's change thing up! I will tell you everything i love about it!

-First time experience is really immersive, exciting, it feel increadibly new and interesting.

-Option to fast skip and skip story :) Thank you for that! It made retrying way less punishing/tiring.

-Character development is amazing! I love how Lucy and Azar become so badass!

-Cool visual desing (special effect) and godlike fighting animation! How did you manage to give a 3D vibe to a 2D game?

-Cool desing of the map+boss fight background, and overall theme. It really make you feel inside a program and the blackhole (the master) is really cool and is remind me a little of what could lead to the end of the world.

-Music and sound effect perfectly fit. I am not sure if they are unique to this boss but this is just perfect! I love it!.

-Well, i did complain about the mechanic being too punishing to my liking but i like the originallity of (most of) them. The idea that Lucy can deflect attack and destroy sword make it feel that she is really taking part of this fight.



If there is one thing that i would recommend/love you to change is the fact that the cost of fixed ability are not being taken into account for the deflect machanic. I know the displacement of the deflect skill is based on if the others skills played are above or below and their cost but i think you could just make it so the cost of the fixed ability is added to the next diplacement of the deflect skill.

For example, if i cast a fixed skill with a cost of 3 and then i cast a healing skill of 1 from my hand, the deflect skill would go up/down by 4 (3+1=4, simple!)

I beleive that would really help team composition/strategy based around fixed skill. Like one composition based on the bow guys (i forgot the name... sorry) and is passive Archery.

Thx again, I know you love the game and i love it too! Keep the hard and passionate work,
what you are doing is high quality and amazing!

[もっちり]

アザールが強すぎるのは正しいと思う。ただ、本当の問題は敵の強さよりも、負けるとまた2～3時間かけて一からボスに挑まないといけないという点。
何回もとは言わないけど、1～2回はボスに負けてもリトライさせて欲しい。そうすれば多少戦略を練ることもできる。

[mickyubi]

Hey i did it! Stacking Pain debuff really work well, ty guys.

[Samseng Yik]

Now we need to see you win without pain debuff.
Or else it will be "only that solution can beat" hahaha

[Melephy]

i have beaten him on expert mode now. And now that i look bad it was not that bad. pain def works but ilya does loads of damage even without the frostdebuff. the reason i lost my prev runs is because i didnt know what to do in third phase. i tried burning through the 800 health downed sword one at a time instead of downing both at the same time . Chain is not needed but she def makes it a lot easier. Other than that always pick dps first and tank/healer second at take-off.

[Ragna]

A problem with this game is that it's both a card roguelike and a story based game.

In other games it doesn't matter if the boss is ultra mega hard since I can just retry the boss as many times as I want to learn from each fight.

In a cardlike roguelike I may have to spend a few hours or more on each run to even attempt the boss again, in which if he smashes me then you have to repeat the process. Since the game rewards very high mastery of the game, the average person just playing a new team comp every round or trying out random stuff for fun will take a extremely long time to even get attempts at the boss. Then very little time in experience of getting better at the game.

Not to mention the many esoteric one off gimmicks that instant kill you or makes fights unwinnable if you don't know how to bypass the knowledge check. It almost feels as though there should be twice as many chapters in this game as characters and enemies both scale drastically after stage 2.

This is different from hades were the runs are both quicker AND every fight in the game helps you learn/get better from the previous fights. Every weapon has many different viable builds that are self contained with different perks.

You can choose bad combinations, useless cards for your deck or having weak cards overall. Making it even harder because not every choice is "positive" for you even if there can be "better" options. Other games let's say I can pick options that can range from a +1 to a +5, where in this game options can be negative to a +10 with the game expecting you to always choose a +7 or higher positive choice or outcome.

Of course read a guide/watch youtube videos/etc were people will just tell you what to do and the best of everything but it kinda ruins the magic a bit. For a game about trying again and again, it surely makes it difficult for you to organically acutally learn how to get better.

[Vengyr]

Originally posted by Ragna:

A problem with this game is that it's both a card roguelike and a story based game.

In other games it doesn't matter if the boss is ultra mega hard since I can just retry the boss as many times as I want to learn from each fight.

In a cardlike roguelike I may have to spend a few hours or more on each run to even attempt the boss again, in which if he smashes me then you have to repeat the process. Since the game rewards very high mastery of the game, the average person just playing a new team comp every round or trying out random stuff for fun will take a extremely long time to even get attempts at the boss. Then very little time in experience of getting better at the game.

Not to mention the many esoteric one off gimmicks that instant kill you or makes fights unwinnable if you don't know how to bypass the knowledge check. It almost feels as though there should be twice as many chapters in this game as characters and enemies both scale drastically after stage 2.

This is different from hades were the runs are both quicker AND every fight in the game helps you learn/get better from the previous fights. Every weapon has many different viable builds that are self contained with different perks.

You can choose bad combinations, useless cards for your deck or having weak cards overall. Making it even harder because not every choice is "positive" for you even if there can be "better" options. Other games let's say I can pick options that can range from a +1 to a +5, where in this game options can be negative to a +10 with the game expecting you to always choose a +7 or higher positive choice or outcome.

Of course read a guide/watch youtube videos/etc were people will just tell you what to do and the best of everything but it kinda ruins the magic a bit. For a game about trying again and again, it surely makes it difficult for you to organically acutally learn how to get better.

It's kinda like that with every card roguelike, isn't it? In Slay the Spire, you can't just go straight to the Heart and practice.

Hades is a bad comparison because it is designed to get easier with every run. In most card roguelikes, game doesn't get easier, instead the player is supposed to be better.

At it's core this game is a card-based roguelike, with story being secondary to the gameplay imo.

[Ragna]

Originally posted by Vengyr:

Originally posted by Ragna:

A problem with this game is that it's both a card roguelike and a story based game.

In other games it doesn't matter if the boss is ultra mega hard since I can just retry the boss as many times as I want to learn from each fight.

In a cardlike roguelike I may have to spend a few hours or more on each run to even attempt the boss again, in which if he smashes me then you have to repeat the process. Since the game rewards very high mastery of the game, the average person just playing a new team comp every round or trying out random stuff for fun will take a extremely long time to even get attempts at the boss. Then very little time in experience of getting better at the game.

Not to mention the many esoteric one off gimmicks that instant kill you or makes fights unwinnable if you don't know how to bypass the knowledge check. It almost feels as though there should be twice as many chapters in this game as characters and enemies both scale drastically after stage 2.

This is different from hades were the runs are both quicker AND every fight in the game helps you learn/get better from the previous fights. Every weapon has many different viable builds that are self contained with different perks.

You can choose bad combinations, useless cards for your deck or having weak cards overall. Making it even harder because not every choice is "positive" for you even if there can be "better" options. Other games let's say I can pick options that can range from a +1 to a +5, where in this game options can be negative to a +10 with the game expecting you to always choose a +7 or higher positive choice or outcome.

Of course read a guide/watch youtube videos/etc were people will just tell you what to do and the best of everything but it kinda ruins the magic a bit. For a game about trying again and again, it surely makes it difficult for you to organically acutally learn how to get better.

It's kinda like that with every card roguelike, isn't it? In Slay the Spire, you can't just go straight to the Heart and practice.

Hades is a bad comparison because it is designed to get easier with every run. In most card roguelikes, game doesn't get easier, instead the player is supposed to be better.

At it's core this game is a card-based roguelike, with story being secondary to the gameplay imo.

Difference in slay the spire is you play 1 character with the cards having straight forward synergies, with most of the abilities synergy with each other in some way or form. The runs are also faster and it's not a story based game, I'm not expected to beat certain parts of the game/some challenge to get the entire story. Which is why in something like slay the spire you can play higher difficulty, fight the heart if you choose too etc.

The boss mechanics punishing you for cheesing the game but but you can win with having a well balanced deck and just not feeling overpowered. BUT you can become overpowered with some luck later on.

In this game you choose from a roaster of characters with all nearly completely different play-styles, you have to RNG half the party later on, with half of the characters not even having synergy with each other or different play-styles within their own kits. Same with many equipment actively being niche, having downsides or outright extremely difficult to use normally. This is magnitudes more complicated than slay the spire, not to mention the characters have to share the same hand/action points and the "5th' character lucy with her additional support abilities.

Which is why if I do something like oh pick all pain characters, I can blast through the game as opposed to organically trying to play an well rounded party that picks up stuff that is appropriate/good at the time.

I pick one of any slay the spire characters and go all in a chosen play style or mix-match depending on what relics/cards I find in StS and find success were you can actively sabotage yourself all of the time in chrono ark.

The point of the post is that if you want an audience for an hardcore roguelike card battler then sure, but if you want the average casual goer to play it to appreciate your story. Your going to find a lot less success since the game is designed in a way were you have to get super sweaty to get anywhere.

It's not "hard" in a way that is challenging, it's hard because you basically have to remove any notion of roleplaying, picking stuff for fun/it's cool or playing the game blind to enjoy it. If you just know all of the OP setups then of course it's easy.

Don't get me wrong I can play the game fine as it is, but just voicing my opinion that it's kinda weird to put this giant effort into the story/voice acting/visuals and having an entire cool gameplay to story effort that ties it into the concept of restarting over an over again. But nobody actually cares about the story and they just want to sweatlord instant phasing every boss with certain "optimal" teamcomps.

[Samseng Yik]

True final boss here is just like the heart in slay the spire.
Which only optimized build can beat reliably.

This is still early access, so we are beta tester to give constructive feedback.
Lets not be negative just because a white dot on a black board