This game feels like 2020

[JS27]

Confronting forces outside your control and hidden from sight until it's too late to do much about it, while coping with resource scarcity and merchants with unpredictable inventories who want to overcharge you for items that won't make a lot of difference in your journey.

The encounters are random. The rewards for combat are random. The gear is random. The options available each turn are random. The avenues for skill are so narrow that they don't significantly impact the chance of survival.

[Fragsworth]

The game is about developing the skill to deal with randomness and probability. You're mistaken if you think your decisions don't impact survival.

In fact, most runs are winnable. The game is designed to be a long process of learning to find out how to do it consistently. In the Daily Runs, everyone has the exact same world, and usually there are many players who win.

Please feel free to criticize aspects of the game that you dislike, but don't make false statements like "items won't make a lot of difference" or "avenues for skill don't impact your chance of survival". That's just false.

[rumplstiltskin]

Heartily disagree Fragsworth. Uncurated randomness is not in the player's favor, especially in long, convoluted sequences. Sure, you can make the best of a bad set of options, but when the degree of randomness virtually ensures that most of your available options are unsuitable, that's just a poor player experience.

There's a great GDC talk about the difference between autonomy and volition. To paraphrase, autonomy is having lots of options, regardless of the content of those options. i.e. No Man's Sky at release. Volition is when the available options are attractive but mutually exclusive (at least in the moment) and present the player with a strategic value comparison. i.e. Breath of the Wild. Volition is what makes great player experiences.

When the first shop I come to in the game has weapons which trigger off a full house, 4 cards straights, or the Jack of Clubs, those are wasted UI slots, worse than if they weren't even there to begin with.

I love the potential for this game. I am very impressed with its foundational concepts and really hope the devs strike gold, but I cannot describe the player experience as anything but needlessly excruciating. Difficulty is not the same as challenge.

There are brief windows when the potential brilliance shines through, when you are calculating hand odds of both you and your opponent, leveraging risk-reward for success just like in actual poker, but those are few and far between. Most times, especially in the early part of a run where players will spend most of their time, your hand either gives you something or it doesn't with zero volition. And it is pointless. The multi-step, full-range RNG does nothing to enrich the experience and there would be no detriment if the outcomes were curated to a more relevant range.

Open up that acquisition funnel, devs. You've got challenges and achievements and all sorts of later-game options to cater to those who want to pit themselves against the most harrowing of challenges. If your main game continues to needlessly shut out all but the most dedicated of masochists, you'll be left with a tiny pool of players, word of mouth will be minimal, and both a great creative concept and the respectable amount of development effort you have put into it will end up wasted.

[snaketeeth01]

okay, I had a bunch written up and discarded it.
Thought I may as well look at the current game state before submitting.

Honest question to pete and rump. Have you played this game BEFORE steam?
Game By:Playsaurus
Published Nov. 13, 2019 with 630,190 gameplays

Because it is not a new game. I just suspect you are new players.

I see the.. what I call new player complex all the time in the online community. And honestly it makes me weep for humanity.
"Patience is a virtue" is something I used to hear often.
Nowadays. I don't think anybody under 30 knows what the word patience or virtue even mean.
Here is the complex.
You buy world of warcraft, and it's 10 expansions. Download the 376230490 GB game.
And after 10 minutes of playing.
Decide that World of warcraft is a terribly designed game. Because you are not top level and have all the rarest items.

I have a "main game" that I play online daily. And I see it all the time.
New to the game players expecting to already understand the complexity. Without trying to learn the complexity.
Blaming the system for lack of reward.
Without time to get the reward.

Yes this game is very random.
You did read the title of the game right? Poker RPG.
Poker.
Like, the card game. Poker.
It's not.. roll the dice and move forward and get free stuff handed to you RPG.
It's Poker.
I mean. You know.
WPT. World poker Tour.
Thousands of professional players, millions of dollars.
Playing poker.
Poker.
A game that can be described as "random". At the very least.
But there has to be skill to it right? Otherwise WPT couldn't exist. But it does exist.
So.
Poker has to be a game of skill right?
A skill that is developed over time.
Right?
So.
I dunno.
You know.
Maybe.
Put in the time to learnt he game.
Or don't.
Don't blame the game for you not learning it.

There was a time BEFORE level up RPG element was implemented.
Right now you have a generic complaint about out of reach items being available in the early game.
Okay. So you want weak items in early game, or to scale? Scale to what? scale to your level, or scale to what you can afford?
Because what you can afford will change over runs.
by my 5-'th run into this game. I will be able to start a standard run with more food, more chips, more hp, and other upgrades i can't even look at yet.
So what should be in the shop when I start the game with 40 chips? Do you still only want weak low level items in your first shop encounter at that rate?

Oh. Well, maybe we should scale shop to what you can afford right? That is the only other option to what we have now right?
If we did that, your first play you would be teased with multiple items to taunt you into spending on useless items early that won't get you far.
Do enough items exist to fill the shop? how many shop items have to exist?
No, doesnt work.
Having the "random dealt" item's fit's the aesthic of random dealt cards.

Hilarious to me.
the actual quoatable.. actually let me find it.
" Uncurated randomness is not in the player's favor, especially in long, convoluted sequences. Sure, you can make the best of a bad set of options, but when the degree of randomness virtually ensures that most of your available options are unsuitable, that's just a poor player experience."
Apply this to the card game poker. Forget this video game exists.
Try to apply your thinking to the game of poker.
Obviously you are proven wrong, as millions of poker players exist.
However, you are right. Because you can only influence your decisions.
This is why we have so many varients on how to play poker.
You can decide what level of control or lack of, you accept to be condusive to an enjoyable experience.
Do you like 5 card stud or texas hold em?
Whatever the player decides is more enjoyable dictates which you will decide.
But in the end, it is still poker. You get the cards you get, the other player's get what they get.
You do not win every hand in a game of poker.
And you do not win every game of poker.
When 6 people approach a table, 5 people lose.
But they do not blame the game of poker for being too random and unfair.
It is understood.
Sometimes you lose.

As this game stands. I have not even done my very first run. About to, jsut wanted to weigh in.
I do not expect to win it.
I expect the result to be a reward of xp gain per time spent, and knowledge gain per time spent.
Repeat until I have enough xp and knowledge to apply toward a win.
If I cannot win, I need more XP or game knowledge.
I don't blame the game.
The experience is there to be grinded.

I am not arguing the game state to be perfect. But this is a unique game I have followed for over a year. I am very happy to see this level of artwork coming fromt he early models.
There is heavy level of effort in this game and I applaud it.
It is def a game worth following and going back to.

To be completely honest, my first attempts in playing this game I had felt completely useless. It was overpowered and too random. And I had no way to grind resources to improves my chances.
But I knew the game was early. I knew any developer who playtested their own game would feel this too, and had the plans to fix it.
nobody would be so deft.
Not on kongregate, and not in 2019.
Patience paid off.

[JS27]

@fragsworth: I didn't say it wasn't winnable, I said the gameplay wasn't fun. This isn't a false statement, it's an opinion, and it was based on the actual aspects of the game I cited.

@snaketeeth01: Comparing how bad a game is now to how much worse it used to be isn't really relevant, nor or your assumptions about other people. Games get people to invest through engaging gameplay and attractive graphics; for me, this had neither. You also spent an awful lot of time on an inaccurate description of the game of poker. The cards you get are random, but that's such a small part of what that game is.

[snaketeeth01]

Uh yeah.. exactly.
There is more than just the cards you get. That's what we are saying.
Don't blame us for you not understanding the deeper mechanics of this game.

Graphics matter?
Wow. I automatically discount you as a gamer. I refuse.
I do not think gamers that sit around playing D&D care about graphics.
Checkers is a game right?
Go fish.
Backgammon.
Monopoloy.
Don't have the best graphics do they? lol

You are the typical under 25 year old that is too stuck in your own righteous opinion substantiated by self claims. That you are unable to hear things for what they are.
Nowhere did I say the game is bad now but it was worse.
Rofl?
You are the low intellect sand crawling creten that is bent on forcing that negative perspective.
Opposed to accepting that it being better means a positive direction toward balanced change.
Confirmed by monthly updates.
But hey, screw reality you have your opinion.
But if it is not going to move or be influenced by other opinions. Then why even open a "discussion" anyway? The only thing you've brought to the conversation is the apparent one sided opinion that you are right because you are right simply because you are right, and that is why everybody else is wrong.

I miss the day's when parents beat sense into their children.
But that's all just an opinion.

[Fragsworth]

Originally posted by rumplstiltskin:

Heartily disagree Fragsworth. Uncurated randomness is not in the player's favor, especially in long, convoluted sequences. Sure, you can make the best of a bad set of options, but when the degree of randomness virtually ensures that most of your available options are unsuitable, that's just a poor player experience.

There's a great GDC talk about the difference between autonomy and volition. To paraphrase, autonomy is having lots of options, regardless of the content of those options. i.e. No Man's Sky at release. Volition is when the available options are attractive but mutually exclusive (at least in the moment) and present the player with a strategic value comparison. i.e. Breath of the Wild. Volition is what makes great player experiences.

When the first shop I come to in the game has weapons which trigger off a full house, 4 cards straights, or the Jack of Clubs, those are wasted UI slots, worse than if they weren't even there to begin with.

I love the potential for this game. I am very impressed with its foundational concepts and really hope the devs strike gold, but I cannot describe the player experience as anything but needlessly excruciating. Difficulty is not the same as challenge.

There are brief windows when the potential brilliance shines through, when you are calculating hand odds of both you and your opponent, leveraging risk-reward for success just like in actual poker, but those are few and far between. Most times, especially in the early part of a run where players will spend most of their time, your hand either gives you something or it doesn't with zero volition. And it is pointless. The multi-step, full-range RNG does nothing to enrich the experience and there would be no detriment if the outcomes were curated to a more relevant range.

Open up that acquisition funnel, devs. You've got challenges and achievements and all sorts of later-game options to cater to those who want to pit themselves against the most harrowing of challenges. If your main game continues to needlessly shut out all but the most dedicated of masochists, you'll be left with a tiny pool of players, word of mouth will be minimal, and both a great creative concept and the respectable amount of development effort you have put into it will end up wasted.

Casual mode does what you're asking for. You can level up and upgrade until the game is as easy as you like. If that's your thing. Try the upgrade that removes enemy hidden cards, and see if you're having a better time.

We will be adding a custom run mode eventually, so you can make the game even easier, or play however you like.

I'm not going to make Daily Runs or Hardcore modes any easier, though, if that's what you're referring to. It's called Hardcore for a reason, and is (in my opinion) already too easy. I like it this way, and I'm not going to compromise on that.

[JS27]

How silly of me. Of course none of those board and card games rely on visuals; that's why they've never been updated since they were first released, and certainly none of them has dozens of versions out to appeal to different aesthetics.

I wouldn't have thought someone could be more ludicrously wrong than in that false equivalence, but you managed it in every other point. Unless your name is Zuul, it's time to stop trying to be the Gatekeeper. Video games, by their very nature, are a visual experience. Denying that is pointless; it's in the name. Before the next time you decide to fling ad hominem attacks, take a few minutes to reflect on how many of the qualities you're decrying are your own and on display.

[Heroes Of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Fragsworth:

The game is about developing the skill to deal with randomness and probability. You're mistaken if you think your decisions don't impact survival.

In fact, most runs are winnable. The game is designed to be a long process of learning to find out how to do it consistently. In the Daily Runs, everyone has the exact same world, and usually there are many players who win.

Please feel free to criticize aspects of the game that you dislike, but don't make false statements like "items won't make a lot of difference" or "avenues for skill don't impact your chance of survival". That's just false.

Just because many players win does not mean the game is well balanced, especially because the player that lose are DRASTICALLY more.

In Poker Quest your decision do matter, but not always. You can run into fights that are straight up impossible for no other reason that what starting hands you and your enemies got, and the only way you could actually survive those battles to begin with is through trial and error to know that you have no chance to win to begin with, which isn't really well designed given this is a roguelike with permadeath that sends you back to the start each time you fail.

Items DO make a big difference, but good luck actually getting enough card draw to use multiple items, or meeting the requirement of items that need 3 or 5 cards given how expensive is to improve your draw to begin with and that getting new items and improving your draw use the exact same resource, chips, meaning that you never have enough to actually build and scale faster than the foes' health.

That's arguably the biggest criticism I have of this game and what sucks the fun out of it: how incredibly expensive is the mere act of using another weapon because to do that you have: to buy the thing first (unless you get one for free from a chest, playing card games or from another event), unlock an extra slot (unless it is weightless or have a free slot avaiable to begin with) and have more card draw to activate it consistently (unless it doesn't use cards). Even if it is one of those alternative cases, it takes still an arm and a leg to equip an extra item (Let's say you buy an item for 20 or 15, you now need to spend an extra 8 to actually have a slot ready for it unless you are playing a character that has some free space and 16 to draw a third card to use it or be more likely to get the requirements necessary to do it)

It says a lot the most impactful and useful upgrade you can get in casual mode, beside revealing hidden card passively, is the amount of starting chips you get, because that allows you to at least get started at improving yourself during a run far sooner

I think what best showcase the flaws of this game has been my most succesful casual Rogue run: I didn't win but I got pretty dang close as I reached the final word checkpoint and died in the dungeon there, but the game at that point just got boring: now it's normal in roguelikes for enemies health and power to scale the further you go, but here I was regularly fighting guys with a range of HP of around 600 to 800 health with equipment that MAYBE would be dealing 70 to 110 health every turn. I ended up dying because I got worn out by all the fights I took, as they lasted so long it was inevitable to take damage, even with the Rogue ability and access to block! And I couldn't properly upgrade my stuff to actually raise my damage output because 1) It required chips I would also need to spend to get more draw so that I can make use of something like the shanks of hearts upgrades that allows you to attack with longer straights 2) I couldn't find blacksmiths regularly enough to power myself up when I did have the chips to upgade myself.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to try the game: Poker is by design a game of chance, that rewards ability, that's for sure, but it definetly requires luck. I knew from the start I would be losing more runs that winning them because in games of chance like these you are also more likely to lose than win. The issue here is that I was hoping that the game would be giving us the tool to mitigate the randomness, and while it does to some extent (items that give card draw, cycling, jumping to get to a particular location it is no longer accessible) it also embrace it ever tighter and put EVEN MORE randomness on top of it compared to other competitors, like giving you a limited vision range on the map screen, so it's impossible to properly organise your path unless, again, you don't pay up with chips

In conclusion, I'm not saying that the game needs to be easier, it needs to be balanced better: I'm fine with having hardcore or daily mode prohibiting upgrades, but the game needs to be overhauled to actually make this feasible to be played that way, and saying that the game is "already too easy" in its current state is a ludicrous claim when the actual difficulty of the game I would describe as "schizophrenic" at best.