I am really started to be annoyed by spell resistance

[amills1]

I swear just about every single time I try a spell which allows spell resistance on any enemy with spell resistance they manage to avoid being affected. This is made more annoying by the dragons breath spell also allowing spell resistance even though the description says it doesn't allow it. To top it off, I took a mythic option for Nenio which stated that it doesn't allow resistance for whichever element I choose. Apparently it only refers to resistance to that damage type, not to spell resistance.

[DarthMyrten]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

You know what's stupid? The point blank shot and precise shot skills. They only refer to weapons not mentioning spells at all. You have to read a third party guide to realise they affect spells too.
Wtf at having less chance at hitting something in melee, where is the logic? The melee should be distracted being in a fight having less time to focus on ranged attacks.

Spells are a bit of a joke in this game without the right feats. Almost like they want all casters to become buff/healing bots.

♥♥♥♥ I'm playing core and almost none of my will affecting spells hit apart from glitter dust on some mobs of the same level (5 to 6)

At the beginning the game casters bring nothing but grease spells(which are ridiculously powerful), casters are grease bots at the start of the game.

Casters have always been weaker at the start and stronger in the end, remember Baldur's Gate? Here it's similar - at the start casters are very weak except things like grease or web, but at the end they can pretty much solo encounters.

[dulany67]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DarthMyrten:

Początkowo opublikowane przez dulany67:

I find that I keep playing with the difficulty settings- weakening the enemies to try to reduce SR but then going full crit and damage plus increased number of enemies to make up the difference.

The truth is that with all the individual difficulty settings, what I really want is to be able to modify the SR as I choose. It's not that it can't be overcome, it's that it forces a play style that I don't prefer. And really, a character like Nenio isn't the problem- she can get the necessary spell penetration to deal with the SR. It's more that hybrids become exclusively buffers or utility because their DD spells are useless.

Also, so many of the enemies have high perception/true sight (or poison immunity) that rogue characters become DPS flankers without being able to use some of their flavor skills.

I'm not sure what the answer is here. It makes me appreciate 5e more, even though I love the crunchiness of this game. Perhaps the issue is encounter design. If there were one or two main antagonists in an encounter with current builds but they are surrounded by other enemies where your characters could use all the bells and whistles of their builds- even lower level templates of the same enemies- it would be more fun.

It's not really a problem if you play full caster, my MC had total bonus to overcoming spell resistance above 50 so there was no mob that could resist. If you play as hybrid then you should focus on defensive spells anyway and it's reasonable tradeoff

But "focus" should not mean that offensive spells have no use at all. I understand what you are saying about the overall balance, but then it becomes a question of the what and why of class mechanics. The criticism of Pathfinder is that it doesn't matter how many feat choices you have if you have to take a certain series of feats to not gimp your character. Well, the same could be said of spell lists for hybrids, right?

That is why I brought up encounter design. Hybrids should have some offensive utility at least for the halo enemies, if not the main antagonist.

[JustSmile]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

You know what's stupid? The point blank shot and precise shot skills. They only refer to weapons not mentioning spells at all. You have to read a third party guide to realise they affect spells too.

A ray is a ranged weapon, it's that simple.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

Wtf at having less chance at hitting something in melee, where is the logic? The melee should be distracted being in a fight having less time to focus on ranged attacks.

The logic is you are shooting at two or more people entangled in melee with one another, and you are aiming at one of them. If this helps you understand, tabletop rule is a choice of either a -4 penalty or equal odds to hit any of characters involved in the melee, friendly or enemy.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

Spells are a bit of a joke in this game without the right feats. Almost like they want all casters to become buff/healing bots.

And how good are melee and archers without the right feats, and without the casters supporting them with buffs and debuffs? -.-

[ColonoscoPete]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

You know what's stupid? The point blank shot and precise shot skills. They only refer to weapons not mentioning spells at all. You have to read a third party guide to realise they affect spells

Or just take a quick look at the combat log.
As for shooting into melee. Your own guys are in the way of your shot...
These concepts really aren't that complicated.

[Creomortis]

I'm facing the back of the enemy whilst my melee is infront, not really complicated.

I think some of you are missing the fact that some of us have never touched the tabletop game, myself included. So all of these things you have gotten "used to" seem illogical.

I've got my characters to level 7 now and yes I'm getting more hits but the descriptions of the feats that help with ranged spells should mention they help with spells. Again as someone who does not play the table top game how am I supposed to know rays aren't "spells" but "ranged weapons"

I do have a feeling that casters become more powerful as they level up but if you are new to the game the early levels don't seem to be well thought out.

[Pandasaur]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Creomortis:

I'm facing the back of the enemy whilst my melee is infront, not really complicated.

I think some of you are missing the fact that some of us have never touched the tabletop game, myself included. So all of these things you have gotten "used to" seem illogical.

I've got my characters to level 7 now and yes I'm getting more hits but the descriptions of the feats that help with ranged spells should mention they help with spells. Again as someone who does not play the table top game how am I supposed to know rays aren't "spells" but "ranged weapons"

I do have a feeling that casters become more powerful as they level up but if you are new to the game the early levels don't seem to be well thought out.

Yeah, early levels for casters always blow in DnD, no matter what it's iteration is. If you're faithful to the system there's not really a lot you can do about that.

The pay off, especially in Wrath, is mid level. Once you grab some of your mythic stuff, whether it's ascended element, abundant casting, or greater enduring spells, you're hilariously strong. The playthough I'm doing atm is a buff wizard Lich. I've got about 10ish buffs that last for 24 hours then run into combat like a psycho barbarian and just start murdering everything, then on occasion something explodes in a torrent of AoE bones and blood.

Stick with it!

[B Unit]

I do think checks to overcome Spell Resistance need to be modified based on difficulty level. It seems to me the default is the 'Core' value.

[Kel'Ithra]

Spell resistance has been a non issue for me, but I have all the spell pen feats even the mythic one. Also there's plenty of items in game that give you +2 to spell pen also. Lightning go crack boom your dead demon, muahahahahaha!!! Screw your immunities . My Demon Magus is having alot of fun in the current play through.

[Overlord Byron]

It's a consequence of an outsider-focused campaign. Spell resistance and elemental damage reduction is a given. D&D/Pathfinder's idea of "balancing" magic is to give broad categories of enemies ways to just ignore it.

Fortunately, it looks like WotR also gives you a bigger than normal arsenal to overcome spell resistance and elemental resistance. It means your casters are going to spend their time buffing or targeting cultists in the early game, though.

[Creomortis]

Well I'm a couple of levels further a long and it has improved drastically. I just need to remember to re equip my tanks armour after having cast buffs. Spent a couple of hours on that one ><

[Naked Granny]

Początkowo opublikowane przez sweetchilliheat:

I do think checks to overcome Spell Resistance need to be modified based on difficulty level. It seems to me the default is the 'Core' value.

The problem is mainly HD inflation of enemies.

By the time you hit Drezen, even trash mooks have 5 - 8 more HD than you do. Bosses have around 20 HD... Yes, for real. 20 hit die.... while the party is at level 8...

Which isn't a problem if you just want them to take a few sword hits. Ignoring, for example, the wizard boss using Transformation to get to 35 AC with four attacks per round for 25 - 40 damage with +30 to hit... And a touch AC of 30. Oh, and - she's just a tiefling? But she has 41 SR... while being a level 11 character. Because. Owlcat can't find anyone in Russia who has ever played Pathfinder before.

But it is a **HUGE** problem since spell resistance is calculated from HD. And Owlcat is giving them artificially inflated SR on top of that. 15 + HD is something only reserved for actual demon lords and divinities in the Bestiary, but that's the baseline that ordinary trash creatures are running around with in this game.

So the bosses in Drezen have 18 - 25 hit die, and three of them have SR of 20 + HD which is why they are sitting on 40+ SR while you only have 9 caster levels at most. 9 caster levels, plus 4 from both Spell Pen feats, +1 from Elf or +2 if you have the racial feat, that's a spell pen check of 1d20 + 15 .... Which means you literally cannot succeed unless you roll a nat 20. Even if you blew one of your two mythic abilities to get more spell pen, you're only rank 2 by that point in the story so it would only add 2 more. And you would still not beat SR except on a nat 20. So you might as well not even bother buying spell penetration feats at all.

They literally are just wasted feat slots.

As an aside - by the Pathfinder's RAW - I don't think natural 20s are supposed to auto-succeed on caster level checks. Nat 20 is an auto success *only* for attack rolls (including maneuvers), saving throws and stabilization. That's it.

So literally...

By the RAW...

By the time you hit Drezen, every enemy in the game is immune to any spell that allows a spell resistance check just because of how the math and statblock inflation works.

[Edstyles]

I got 1 of my fire spells resisted even with mythic path immunities :o. Said it got resisted . which was funny since the mobs had 10 fire res and not even immune :p

[Draken]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Aunt Tony:

Początkowo opublikowane przez sweetchilliheat:

I do think checks to overcome Spell Resistance need to be modified based on difficulty level. It seems to me the default is the 'Core' value.

The problem is mainly HD inflation of enemies.

By the time you hit Drezen, even trash mooks have 5 - 8 more HD than you do. Bosses have around 20 HD... Yes, for real. 20 hit die.... while the party is at level 8...

Which isn't a problem if you just want them to take a few sword hits. Ignoring, for example, the wizard boss using Transformation to get to 35 AC with four attacks per round for 25 - 40 damage with +30 to hit... And a touch AC of 30. Oh, and - she's just a tiefling? But she has 41 SR... while being a level 11 character. Because. Owlcat can't find anyone in Russia who has ever played Pathfinder before.

But it is a **HUGE** problem since spell resistance is calculated from HD. And Owlcat is giving them artificially inflated SR on top of that. 15 + HD is something only reserved for actual demon lords and divinities in the Bestiary, but that's the baseline that ordinary trash creatures are running around with in this game.

So the bosses in Drezen have 18 - 25 hit die, and three of them have SR of 20 + HD which is why they are sitting on 40+ SR while you only have 9 caster levels at most. 9 caster levels, plus 4 from both Spell Pen feats, +1 from Elf or +2 if you have the racial feat, that's a spell pen check of 1d20 + 15 .... Which means you literally cannot succeed unless you roll a nat 20. Even if you blew one of your two mythic abilities to get more spell pen, you're only rank 2 by that point in the story so it would only add 2 more. And you would still not beat SR except on a nat 20. So you might as well not even bother buying spell penetration feats at all.

They literally are just wasted feat slots.

As an aside - by the Pathfinder's RAW - I don't think natural 20s are supposed to auto-succeed on caster level checks. Nat 20 is an auto success *only* for attack rolls (including maneuvers), saving throws and stabilization. That's it.

So literally...

By the RAW...

By the time you hit Drezen, every enemy in the game is immune to any spell that allows a spell resistance check just because of how the math and statblock inflation works.

Here is a list of enemies in Drezen. With their SR.
The difficulty is on 'no enemy stat adjustments' which is what you have on core.

Derakani SR 21
Babau SR 17
Half-fiend furious Minotaur SR 21
Prophet of Baphomet SR 0
Shir SR 15
Dretch SR 0
Vrock SR 20
Balor Darrazand SR 31, SR 25 against good

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606130039

Yes, that is ember just overcoming the Spell Resistance of Darrazand. A boss you aren't supposed to beat that goes away after three rounds. Got a 18 on the roll, but only needed a 14.
She has a total of 17, 9 from her caster level +4 from spell penetration, +2 from mythical spell penetration (which goes up with mythical levels) and her +2 from being an elf.
And I forgot to activate The Covenant of the Inheritor for another +2.

[Draken]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Edstyles:

I got 1 of my fire spells resisted even with mythic path immunities :o. Said it got resisted . which was funny since the mobs had 10 fire res and not even immune :p

Spell Resistance is different from Energy (fire, cold, acid, sonic, electricity) Resistance.
It sound like your whole spell got resisted by the enemy and simply fizzled out.
If your caster would have succeeded on his check to overcome SR you should have then dealt the fire damage.

[Naked Granny]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Draken:

So you went out of your way to avoid showing the bosses I was talking about...

None of those are bosses...

And a 50% failure rate against SR after spending more than half your available feat choices specifically in order to do so is extremely extremely unreasonable, even if you did want to say that a scripted creature is a boss. If you spend that much of your build currency just to be able to do the only thing that you can do... you should be guaranteed to be able to do it every time.

Specifically, go look at Chorussina. She's apparently level 16, not 11 as I thought from what I remembered. Go look at her. Reminder: enter her chamber with the difficulty set correctly because her acolytes are buffing her as part of the cut scene when you enter, and if you kill them on easy mode the buff is smaller.

Go look at her.