How do I... Kineticist?

[Yannir]

Just tried making a Kineticist mercenary (middle of Act 3, lvl 12, mythic Azata lvl 4) yesterday and came to the conclusion that while they have some neat party tricks they definitely don't have defenses, skills, utility or, surprisingly, damage.

How are they supposed to play? Big damage single hits? Or are they machine-gun elemental blasters?

I highly suspect I'm doing something wrong here.
Any guides available, nuggets of information or is this class just broken?

[Chronocide]

Lots of layers to this class...

Defenses wise, it's pretty strong just by being a class with no wasted stats and being a spell caster that is unaffected by armor (because spell-like abilities are not spells).

Your stats are Con for blast DC and damage, and Dex for attack rolls (because the base blast is ranged touch). Which means you have innately high Fort and Reflex, plus both high HP and high AC. So your defenses are pretty strong.

Damage is Con based, so really need to increase that Con if you aren't doing enough damage.

Regarding damage types, your basic earth blast is Bludgeon damage (which means it's a physical attack) while like your Fire blast does fire damage. So DR applies to physical attacks and Energy resistance/immunity applies to elemental attacks. This means that you need to make sure to diversify your blasts as you get access to new ones, as the DR and Resistances of the opponent will really really matter regarding how much damage you can do.

Regarding skills, yeah, low skills, though the Dark Elementalist is Int based (instead of con) and even has an expanded array of class skills. So if you need the skills, that route is good.

It is notable that if you want a Kineticist Healer, it requires the water element and can be learned as you level up (not first level).

Also notable, the Earth element does have a silver/cold iron/adamantine variant, but like the healing, it's a later levels thing.

Regarding utility, it has that, but again, it's mainly a later levels thing. You need to combine the variations of the blasts to affect areas, or combine in interesting ways.

For example, Earth (or air with bludgeon blast) Kineticist at level 1 can take the pushing infusion, this allows a ranged bull rush attempt. When you bull rush the enemy, if they fail, it pushes the enemy back. If the enemy is pushed out of threatened area of your allies, they can make attacks of opportunity.


Regarding Wrath of the Righteous, since they start you out against enemies with DR and innate energy immunities, the class is rather iffy at low levels. Not so much that the class is broken, so much as the setting doesn't accommodate the class very well.

[Chronocide]

Oh, the Gather Power ability is rather key to the class. It's explained no where in the character creation screen, but shows up on your action bar when you create a kineticist.

Gather power has 3 stages and they toggle on and off. Basically, they let you reduce the burn cost of your blasts by making the attack take more actions in your turn. Which is all awesome and useful, but unexplained part is that you need hands free to use gather power.

So equipping weapons or shields will really impair this class, making improved unarmed strike and/or natural attacks (like claws or a bite) a really useful feat/background selection.

[Yannir]

Yeah, I did kinda figure this class is an element-bender like in Avatar so I didn't give her a weapon.

What's the most economic way to Gather Power? Iirc I tried using the medium variant which takes over a turn to gather and fire anything, shoots once and then you need to gather power again. Will I run out of Burns if I go for the quickest variant? How much damage should I be expecting, at say lvl 15?

I'm struggling to understand why I would pick this class over a ray-caster or an archer, who can both have additional utility through spells and feats.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Yannir:

I'm struggling to understand why I would pick this class over a ray-caster or an archer, who can both have additional utility through spells and feats.

Dealer's choice?

The Kineticist, like the other classes, isn't something mandatory. You pick the one you want to play and do that.

I will note that casting spells with burn isn't required for the class, so you can certainly plan on running a kineticist that never uses gather power or accepts any burn.

I suppose, vs archery or spells, the kineticist blasts have no weight and require no spell slots (they are at-will). So if trying maximized your damage potential without rest and on very low str characters, they have a niche there.

Regarding burn, at higher levels you can usually reduce the burn cost of things. One of the archetypes doesn't use burn at all, and another takes penalties instead of non-lethal damage.

DPS wise, it's not bad damage.

Physical blasts start at (1d6+1+ability mod) per every odd numbered level.
Energy blasts start at (1d6+half of your ability mod) per every odd numbered level .

And both are considered weapons for the purpose of feats, so things like point blank shot can apply.


Anyway, I'm not good at this game, I just like it and know the pathfinder RPG rules. It's not a terrible class, but it's very intensive on reading, as it's a rather unique character concept.

[Chronocide]

oh, another niche potential is that, as far as I know, the blasts don't reduce damage if the kineticist is small in size. A small archer would do less damage than a medium one, so that's something else to consider.

[Yannir]

Ok I think I need to take another look at this. If I tried a Kineticist MC, what Mythic Path would you go for?

[Null Winter]

I found the most success when thinking of my Kineticist as a mid-range archer with eternally enchanted arrows, with some close-range surprises at later levels.

Kineticist blasts also work fine against swarms, which is very useful considering the situations you get put in; it's a bad day when you have to kill 15 elementally-resistant swarms but your mages only have 8 loaded spells that affect them. The Kineticist has their backs in those situations.

[Chronocide]

My kineticist companion got a Magma Wall off recently against a densely packed boss area with swarm summoning. That was something. Swarms would hit the wall and disappear. Stopped summoned giants too.

That said, it turned out to be friend or foe. And none of the NPCs seem to understand that they should move around it, not friendly or enemy. Definitely a double edged sword.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Yannir:

Ok I think I need to take another look at this. If I tried a Kineticist MC, what Mythic Path would you go for?

Trickster, perhaps. Kinetic blast is eligible for Improved Critical if you take Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast).

Someone mentioned online that there isn't any way to use kinetic blast while polymorphed into other things, so they suggest against the Gold Dragon route because you won't be able to use your blasts while transformed.

Might want to take one of the archetypes that uses an alternative casting stat, as the mythic paths tend to use Int/wis/cha, not Con...

[Chronocide]

Hmm...yeah, the walls are really impressive. Especially when paired with the pushing infusion/bull rushing teammates.

Might have to build a party around that, next time.

[Kaze]

Zippy Magic from Azata works on single target blasts. Trickster, azata, or lich would be my mythic choices. Lich is supposed to be able to turn your blasts into Negative energy, but had issues that I'm not sure are fixed. Don't forget to save 105000 money for the skeletal merchant in act 3. At that point you'll have to buy Kinetic Diadem, and Sigil of Destruction. Lesser Kineticist Rod will come from Greybor's first quest in act 3, in the tower basement where you find the Storyteller again.

I'm currently running Elemental Engine Fire Level 12 Mythic 3 trickster trying to tackle Blackwater on Core. I'm having to rest after every other room and my MC is pretty useless. If you manage to pass the SR check, odds are you miss the target...

I should do Areelu's Lab first... pick up mythic 4, for Perception 2, then I can level up again (picking Crit feats).

Edit: Single target crits (blue flame) are doing 1250+ damage on my Perception 2 Trickster Kineticist.

Walls and Deadly Earth (magma) are doing ~300, depending on reflex saves, burn, etc. It's very nice.

[Nerus]

My demon Kineticist crits for like 1.8k damage with deadly earth (so huge aoe) but this build is designed for playing turn based. Otherwise your own companions will run into it. The huge damage it sadly only does if you are in demon rage. Otherwise normal blast 110 damage, crit for like 330. (also trips and pushes the enemy away

[Yannir]

Originally posted by Kaze:

Zippy Magic from Azata works on single target blasts. Trickster, azata, or lich would be my mythic choices. Lich is supposed to be able to turn your blasts into Negative energy, but had issues that I'm not sure are fixed. Don't forget to save 105000 money for the skeletal merchant in act 3. At that point you'll have to buy Kinetic Diadem, and Sigil of Destruction. Lesser Kineticist Rod will come from Greybor's first quest in act 3, in the tower basement where you find the Storyteller again.

I'm currently running Elemental Engine Fire Level 12 Mythic 3 trickster trying to tackle Blackwater on Core. I'm having to rest after every other room and my MC is pretty useless. If you manage to pass the SR check, odds are you miss the target...

I should do Areelu's Lab first... pick up mythic 4, for Perception 2, then I can level up again (picking Crit feats).

Edit: Single target crits (blue flame) are doing 1250+ damage on my Perception 2 Trickster Kineticist.

Walls and Deadly Earth (magma) are doing ~300, depending on reflex saves, burn, etc. It's very nice.

For my entire Azata playthrough, I met the skeletal merchant dude only a single time. So yeah, I never even got to see his other inventories. Not sure if I was just unlucky with that or if there's some issue with the encounter proc chance.

[Astral Projection]

Originally posted by Yannir:

For my entire Azata playthrough, I met the skeletal merchant dude only a single time. So yeah, I never even got to see his other inventories. Not sure if I was just unlucky with that or if there's some issue with the encounter proc chance.

Weird. Finished game twice and probably saw him at least 10+ times each game.