How to Sword Saint?

[Broseph]

Just beat my first playthrough as Pally Angel to Legend, and want to do a full playthrough without missing anything (secret ending included) as an Azata Sword Saint. Choosing sword saint because in Baldur's Gate I loved the kensai/mage combo and this seems like the closest thing.

I see a lot of people online arguing about STR v DEX. I plan on playing on Core (last playthrough was normal and second half was a breeze), but would like to insist on staying a pure Sword Saint. Not too picky about weapons, would just prefer to not wield a polearm (just don't like them aesthetically).

Basically what I'm getting at is this: STR or DEX for pure Sword Saint? How "fine tuned" do you have to be for core?

[jsaving]

Even if you find a way to get DEX-to-damage, you'll dish out 20-25% less damage going DEX-based in exchange for only modestly better AC. Since top-tier DPS is really the only reason to pick saint in the first place, STR is the way to go with a saint character.

Core difficulty is far enough away from unfair that you don't have to worry too much about fine-tuning the build. Just go max-STR and wield a two-hander and you'll be good to go.

If you're willing to SLIGHTLY bend staying pure, you could set CHA to 14-16 and grab a level of scaled fist. But it's not essential on core.

[mosspit]

For a pure SS, I would say STR.

A pure SS is okay for an Offtank. Can take a few hits here and there, but I dont think they can effectively facetank on Core. So might as well just go STR and use some of the better weapons with good Crit properties like Fauchard. Plus you don't have to take the Finesse feats for attack/dmg conversion.

DEX SS can excel on tanking, but probably will ideally dip into pally, monk and or witch. I personally using a 1SF/2Pally/1Witch/16SS setup and enjoy about 80+ AC with 40+ Saves. Incredibly tanky but only ok-ish for offensive. Need to depend on Prescient Attack / Dimension Strike for enemies with high AC.

So in short, depends if you would like your SS to be the main tank (DEX) or an offensive attacker that can take a few hits (STR).

[Broseph]

thanks for the tips guys, so it seems going STR is the way to go. You'd be missing out on the spellstrike feature for SS with a two-hander but I'm guessing that's not a huge downside? Any decent two-handed weapons that aren't polearms?

[mosspit]

I personally didn't play around with spellstrike due to my build. The penalties associated with the feature is not too appealing and you need Ascendant Element and Spell Pen feats to make offensive spells useful. Some mythical paths might offset those requirements though.

Most 2 handed weapons seem fine. Maybe look through a list of 2H weapons to see what you like based on unique properties. A few notables - Greatsword selection seems underwhelming, Greataxe class has some decent uniques, Scythes selection is limited but there are a few very good ones and one is available in the starting area. Worst case scenario get Finnean to transform into the weapon class you want.

[Erei]

SS is the magus that specialize mostly in melee martial that can buff itself. For combat caster (casting spell with your weapon), the Eldritch Scion is probably the best one for that. The eldritch archer can be either for range character, I assume, (I honestly just dip 2 for that one on my archer, so I wouldn't know much).

Also, important note, if you are using a single one handed with no shield/offhand, deactivate the spellstrike for an 1.5X str to your damage roll (you 2h the 1h).

One important thing with SS is access to the arcane pool crit ability, allowing you to automatically confirm and do X1more crit damage on crit. Which is added with the "keen at will" ability (or just take the feat).
A good way to optimize it is by using very large threat range weapon. Most notably, you can have 2 different handaxe with 18-20threat range (15-20 with feat/keen), or even better, a battleaxe with the same crit range. 15/20 range means 1/4 chance to crit per attack, which is quite good. If you go trickster, it's even more stupid, since you can go around 11-20 crit range, for nearly half your attack being crit.

Another thing could be to use the 24h buff from mythic (enduring line), and enduring blades for perma arcane buffs. Then, you can add elemental barrage, and pick all the elemental proc from your arcane pool. You can obviously do it on top of the aforementioned crit tip.


As for str or dex, with a SS, you'd need 2 feat to have dex for weapons, vs none at all for str. Honestly, it's quite a waste.
You'll already have high intelligence, which turns into AC with SS, and you can get decent dex anyway (dump wisdom and charisma). With archmage armor (mythic), no armor and with just mage armor spell (through potion, scroll or perhaps multiclassing), you'll get a lot of AC.


Finally, for fun talk, there is an intelligence bardiche. Using int for attack and damage instead of strength. A SS could then go for intelligence and have lots of spell + a weapon in a single attribute. It might be bugged or completely useless, but it's a thing you can do^^

[ttv-r0b0c0p87]

The Sword Saint stuff seems to have already been covered pretty well. I just wanted to let you know another option, if you're really looking to do effective melee/caster hybrid, is the Vivisectionist Alchemist. I'm running Rowdy 1 with the rest in Vivi, wielding reach weapons (Bardiche, Glaive, etc). The Vital Strike damage is insane, Cleave can hit almost the entire screen when enlarged, and you can self-cast a ton of helpful spells like True Strike, Displacement, and Restoration. With Sorcerous Reflex, your first True Strike each encounter is a Swift Action, allowing you to get in a free hit against even the highest of ACs. The Mutagen is an Alchemical Enhancement, so it stacks with other bonuses like Bull's Strength, allowing for some serious buffs to your combat attributes. Team up with a Brown Fur Transmuter and you'll be 1-shotting entire rooms full of enemies with your Cleave and Cleaving Finish.

My main and 2 of my mercs are all this build and I'm absolutely wiping the floor with Core difficulty, it's kind of unfair. Just make sure you've got Last Stand as a Mythic Feat because you're kind of squishy when your Displacement isn't up.

[Broseph]

Thanks for the advice everyone, and the suggestion for vivi instead.

I had one more question though: To vital strike or not to vital strike? Think I'm going to go with the unique greataxe that has the 18-20 crit range (15-20 on keen), and I'm not sure if it's better to chuck feats at the vital strike line and have the option to make a fullish attack after moving, or if it would be a waste considering it's a crit-fishing build. More attacks = more chances to crit, right?

PS: Thanks Erie for the Enduring tip especially -- didn't think it would work on class abilities!

[Raigavin]

Originally posted by Broseph:

Thanks for the advice everyone, and the suggestion for vivi instead.

I had one more question though: To vital strike or not to vital strike? Think I'm going to go with the unique greataxe that has the 18-20 crit range (15-20 on keen), and I'm not sure if it's better to chuck feats at the vital strike line and have the option to make a fullish attack after moving, or if it would be a waste considering it's a crit-fishing build. More attacks = more chances to crit, right?

PS: Thanks Erie for the Enduring tip especially -- didn't think it would work on class abilities!

Problem with Vital Strike, is that it's just 1 single hit and then a cleaving finish if it chains.

Isn't it better to just take 1 level Sohei and rest of the levels in Mutation Warrior?
That way you have an extra attack with something like a Fauchard from flurry and you don't have to depend on one single attack initiator hits.