What are the nuances of playing a mage?

[Aetheroth]

I'm new to this sort of game, but have been playing it the past 2 days. I like it but a major issue for me is that;
- I usually play mage-type characters in other rpgs but the limited number of spells to cast before rest is quite low (despite a lot of points to the stat), even more so considering that there is both a decent chance to miss and the damage from the offensive spells are underwhelming (so far. I only reached lvl 3)
- There don't seem to be any mage-specific weapons for basic attacks (or for when you run out of casts), such as staves or something that relies on intelligence or charisma. This forces you to branch out stat points to stats that feel like a waste for a mage build when a successful archer for example need only focus on dexterity and strength.

My question then is what are the nuances behind running an effective mage-type character in this game. I've been playing as a sage sorcerer because that looked to be the most attractive simple magic class. However, because of the above issues, I'm wondering whether it isn't more sensible to take a class that builds towards a sort of mystic archer (priority on bow with occasional use of magic). I'd prefer to be a pure mage though. I'd appreciate any help. Sometimes it feels like my current character makes almost no contribution to battles.

[アンジェル]

引用自 Aetheroth：

I'm new to this sort of game, but have been playing it the past 2 days. I like it but a major issue for me is that;
- I usually play mage-type characters in other rpgs but the limited number of spells to cast before rest is quite low (despite a lot of points to the stat), even more so considering that there is both a decent chance to miss and the damage from the offensive spells are underwhelming (so far. I only reached lvl 3)
- There don't seem to be any mage-specific weapons for basic attacks (or for when you run out of casts), such as staves or something that relies on intelligence or charisma. This forces you to branch out stat points to stats that feel like a waste for a mage build when a successful archer for example need only focus on dexterity and strength.

My question then is what are the nuances behind running an effective mage-type character in this game. I've been playing as a sage sorcerer because that looked to be the most attractive simple magic class. However, because of the above issues, I'm wondering whether it isn't more sensible to take a class that builds towards a sort of mystic archer (priority on bow with occasional use of magic). I'd prefer to be a pure mage though. I'd appreciate any help. Sometimes it feels like my current character makes almost no contribution to battles.

What you are experiencing are pretty normal stuff for a low level mage. It turns into almost the opposite later on. I just learned recently that for touch ranged spells Point Blank Shot and the follow up archer skills are important.

That said, yeah: you could play pure mage build one way or another. It is no easy class by all means, needing plenty of thinking ahead and preparation. Because of that most opt out in giving their mages at least a crossbow in hands, despite they hardly ever use them - because a mage does not get the time to use the crossbow later on.

As a sorceress I recommend you trying that, if you are new to the game. It takes a huge burden away by not needing to memorise spells and then biting your teeth for not having memorised the correct spells for the upcoming battle. It is clearly a trade off with you not being able to learn spells as easily as usually wizards or witches do. But it is great for beginners in this game.

I can tell you already: archer stats? Not really, just a minimum amount to hit something. But no one prevents you in making a mage who is a great archer too.

Starting Act 2/ Act 3 (5-10 hours playtime) a wizard character already becomes strong enough to make melee wants spells too. Especially due to enemy armour classes and dodge skills since the spells hit much better, easier, and stronger. With the right setup they are viable in melee too. My main character sorceress often enough gets into situation where the melee tank falls, and she takes over with mirror image spamming. Not good, but great that it works.

Some videos like these might give you orientation, even they are not about wizards - but witches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP2VnP4AEY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqtTLlb3zQ

It is normal that a wizard does not seem to contribute much to battles - early on. You tend to rely on scrolls and learning stuff. But later on - it is your strongest damage output available. Take that into consideration and think of your wizard as "a wizard in training".

[ttv-r0b0c0p87]

Caster classes in these games typically start out quite weak but then become very powerful later on. The Sylvan Sorcerer with the leopard animal companion offsets this weakness because the leopard is such a strong ally.

You'll want to take Magic Penetration and Greater Magic Penetration pretty early on, as most of the non-human enemies will resist all of your spells. Grease is an excellent level 1 spell, though you'll have to be careful not to move your allies into it when they're attacking. At low levels, Grease and Magic Missile can get you through most encounters. Having a strong fighter with a reach weapon, like a Glaive or Bardiche, can be nice since they can stand outside of the range of the grease and still attack the opponent, and get an attack-of-opportunity when the opponent gets up.

Note that when you rest, you can turn off the "automatic duration" option and choose the shortest rest duration. You won't fully heal, but you will regain all of your spell slots while only gaining a minor amount of corruption. Using this method, you can rest quite often before you reach corrupted level 1.

Also note that the Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats will apply to any of your ranged spells that require an attack roll, such as Scorching Ray, so it's highly recommended to take those feats. You can also take a single level in the Wizard subclass, Elemental Specialist. This will let you select a damage type, such as Fire, and convert all of your spells into that damage type. So, now, Ray of Frost and Cone of Cold and other elemental spells will do Fire damage. This is nice because later on you can take the mythic feat, Ascendant Element Fire (or whichever element you selected), and now no enemies will be able to resist your spell damage.

If you stick with Sage Sorcerer, I believe you get to select a bloodline. If you selected an elemental bloodline, you can ignore the Elemental Specialist subclass, as your bloodline gives you that same conversion ability, even though it's not mentioned in the bloodline description.

[Aetheroth]

@ttv-r0b0c0p87 and @アンジェル Thank you for your tips. They are very helpful.I''ll keep them in mind going forward. I prioritized the magic penetration for every time I got a feat choice. Do you have any tips on increasing the number of casts before rest. The tip to set rest time as short as possible sounds like a good idea, but I'm still curious if there is a way to increase number of casts before rest.

[ttv-r0b0c0p87]

The only way I know of is to max your casting attribute, which is Intelligence for Sage Sorcerer or Charisma for the other sorcerer classes. There are also some items you can get that give additional slots. Finally, once you start gaining mythic feats, there are several feats called Abundant Casting that will give you 4 extra slots. The first feat gives slots for 1st-3rd level spells, and each additional feat gives 4 slots for higher level spells.

[GunStarX]

Ranged touch attack caster is the most overlooked thing by most people complaining about the difficulty of high ac enemies. For most parties Ember with full fire and spell pen buffs is a mandatory companion for this reason. You can have an enemy with 40+ ac that your team needs a crit to hit, but the touch ac will be like 10. So here comes ember with an empowered scorching ray just wasting the enemy.

This is where the point blank and precise shot feats come in, otherwise you take a penalty to your ranged touch attack roll when the enemy is engaged to your party.

You can go in other directions depending on your party build, but you really want to focus in on a specialty (Nenio is illusion CC) and go all in early otherwise you will get left behind for overcoming defenses like spell pen and caster DC.

[B Unit]

You might feel more at home playing a Kineticist. While not a mage per se, they use spell-like abilities and can use most of them an unlimited amount of times.

[TomServosMyHero]

Everyone else covered things pretty well, but just to add: if you're worried about not having a regular ranged attack when you run out of spells, there's a staff you can buy in Drezen in chapter 3 called the Burned Ashwood. It lets you cast the Burning Arc spell at will, an unlimited number of times.

[Princess Pilfer]

With few exceptions, you can just rest when you run out of spells.

If you're looking for a Caster that has something to do when it's out of spells and/or when you just don't want to waste spells on weak enemies, Layline Guardian (a kind of Witch) and Shaman are both good.

Witch, because when it's not worth burning a spell in an easy fight you can just spam hex buffs on your party/debuffs on the enemy, Leyline Guardian is still a spontaneous caster which means the spell management is easier. (Stigmatized also works)

Shaman is a prepared caster so they do have to memorize spells, but Spirit Hunter and...Shadow Shaman (?) are both very good in melee. Spirit Hunter is just good in melee in general and can DPS or Tank as you see fit while still having CC and self-buffs and the like for when things get serious, and Shadow Shaman (?) has sneak attacks, so it's more of a caster-rogue. Both of them also get hexes btw, though they tend to want to use the self-buffs not the CC. It's one of the easier prepared casters to manage just because when in doubt, prepare a bunch of self buffs.

[Ghost]

I built an Overwhelming Sorc Azata for Spell Pen and Enchantment DC but ended up using Selective Siroco, Disintegrate and Wracking Ray 90% of the time

You can pretty much use magic missile for regular attacks or if you want to use metamagic on it to stack up additional empowered attacks

Arcanist - Brown Fur Transmuter with a menagerie of animal companions and teamwork feats could be fun

Alchemist is so good for AoE that don't really need too much other damage if you have one

[phadin]

In terms of weapon choices for a mage, stick to bows or crossbows. Most mage classes can use crossbows by default. Have around 12 or 14 dexterity to help a bit, which will also give you a small bump to AC as well. This will also help when you start throwing ranged touch attack spells. Mages will never have the accuracy of other classes by virtue of their low Base Attack Bonus, but that will help a lot at the early levels before BAB and AC start climbing. They will never be able to keep up with combat oriented classes in this regard, and at mid to high levels, mages should only resort to basic weapon fire when you really don't want to bother throwing magic or are just passing the turn so your more competent weapon users can mop up weak enemies.

Don't bother with strength or melee combat for a mage. Unless you are playing a Magus (which is a hybrid fighter-mage anyway) you shouldn't be taking a mage into melee combat. Not only do they have poor AC and low HP, but that also leaves them vulnerable to Attacks of Opportunity from the enemy if you choose to cast a spell while engaged in melee.

Ultimately, trying to turn a mage into a competent weapon fighter is hard due to their lack of BAB. It IS possible (spells like Transformation and Polymorph exist for this reason) but it is going against the grain of the mage in general, so you really gotta know what you're doing. Not something for a first time player to try.

[Whimsical Pacifist]

Pathfinder is a bit more of the old-type quadratic wizard. You start weak and probably a liability. Your spells are best used tactically as disabling crowd-control and probably shouldn't have to use more than one per hard encounter.

Midgame you'll get a powerspike with Abundant Spells. Branch into buffing your party with a side of damaging spells. Special mention for the Lich which gets a stupidly powerful spell called Corrupted Blood (bypass everything and inflict sickness on bosses) and Power From Undeath.

Lategame you can either blast or disable and let the party do the rest. Buffs are possibly 24 hours with the right feats. And you'll probably have a mountain of metamagic'd scrolls perfect if you're a Wizard and want to drop a nuke on each room.

So early game weak. Mid game, on parity with a fighter. Late game walking demi-god with 900 hp (Lich), possibly with access to level 10 spells (meaning you can metamagic and scribe level 9 spells as well!)

One thing, if you want to try Arcanist or Exploiter Wizard (Really good), I recommend trying Table Top Tweaks. Quick Study is quite nice for correcting mistakes in spell slots on the fly. Sorceror is good if you know what spells are good, but unless you assiduously follow a guide, you won't necessarily know what's optimal.

[アンジェル]

This one is nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_imCzwF1gyo

[jitrnicka2]

In addition to what the others said:

If you play spontaneous caster (like sorc), there are bunch of items you might be interested in. They will give you few extra spells. There is the Red Salamander ring that gives you bunch of fire based spells, there are necromancy ring and frost ring (?boreal something?) whose names I forget, and there are lightining bracer (Thunderlord's smething iirc?, these also allow you to change all damage to lightning). These items offset a bit the fact that unlike wiz, you are unable to learn new spells outside of the levelups.

For stats, you want mainly dex (16ish + buffs should be enough) and wis/int/cha (depending on your class).

The elemental bloodline sorcs also allow you to change your damage to their respective element, if you plan to use Ember in a more offensive way, it is quite good idea to give her one level of fire elemental sorc (or dual bloodline with fire ele + fire dragon).

As for the caster weapons, you can use the rank 0 spells unlimited times per day, and there are some offensive one. While they are not strong, they allow you to have ranged attack and still be able to equip weapons with spell bonuses.

Also, someone mentioned arcanist, don't pick it if you want to be a lich, I've just finished the game with that combo, a) you won't be able to cast the 10th level spells (bug) b) you get bunch of quite cool spells with lich, but with arcanist, you are quite limited in how many of them you can have prepared between rests (5 for level 1 spells, 3 for level 9) which kinda defeats the purpose of being able to learn spells from scrolls, because most of the time you just pick the lich ones.

[jitrnicka2]

引用自 ttv-r0b0c0p87：

If you stick with Sage Sorcerer, I believe you get to select a bloodline. If you selected an elemental bloodline, you can ignore the Elemental Specialist subclass, as your bloodline gives you that same conversion ability, even though it's not mentioned in the bloodline description.

You don't, in kingmaker you got the arcane bloodline, but in wrath you got none. This might be a bug though (and I really hope it is, because otherwise the sage seems really underpowered).