A Nine-Tailed Mythic Trickster Sorcerer Build + Interesting Revelations for Discussion. *VERY OUTDATED SEE NOTE*

[Balekai]

*Sept 18/21: I decided to finally update this into even more of a guide and less of a pre-game theorycrafting excercise after some good playtesting. I have erased my initial preface/introduction and re-structured some things. In addition, I hace reworked Feat, Spell and Mythic Feat/Ability progression to what I think is more optimized.*

*Sept 19/24 LATE NECRO UPDATE MARKING TOPIC VERY OUTDATED: I never got around to marking this topic as outdated years ago. I would have just ignored it completely at this point, but this topic keeps coming up in various searches of my own after returning to the game and looking for completely different info/content. It must be a lot of keywords in here or something lol. So I don't want this dated topic misleading people.

There's still some helpful info though and I will edit some points below with some updated info, and possibly a post of my Seeker Build version of this. The Seeker version came into fruition not long after my last update, once I realized that Owlcat's version of Nine Tailed Heir basically offers nothing good but thematic vibes, even though without a 9 tail animation that's suspect too (they should have added a wing VFX). 1/2 of the tails are useless period due to HD limitations etc. like on the sleep like spells. The other half are spells you want more than 2 casts of, and have no synergy with Completely Normal Trickster metamagic.

The Best Sorcerer Trickster archetype to accomplish the theme/direction of what this build wanted to do, is Seeker Sorcerer due to the extra Seeker Feats, allowing you to make room for all the feats you want. Being various metamagic feats, spell focus/penetration feats, and the new powerful DC enchancing feats Arcane Spirit and Ambuscating Spell. In addition to spellcasting feats, for a spellcaster Mythic Trickster you want skill feats like Persuasive, Deceitful, Skill Focus: Persuasion, and Skill Focus: Trickery to max out the effectiveness of your Mythic Trick Persuasion/Trickery lines (I dropped Althetics a long time ago and the late game Scythe weapon that I couldn't get in my game without failing secret ending. Also bad to build around a weapon you get 3 seconds before endgame).

Keep in mind Persuasion Mythic Rank 1 uses the rules of basic Demoralize (DC of 10 + Monster HD *Creature Level, which can be reduced if required with necromancy* + Wisdom Modifier *Which can be reduced with debuffs*). I also overlooked the Demolralize ability becoming an attack ability with Persuasion Mythic Trick 3 back in the day. No need for Dazzling Display. Persuasion 2 uses just Persuasions RANKS not the bonuses. Meaning the paralyse is the hardest thing to pull off because it has a DC of only 30 at Persuasion max ranks (it needs most tough enemies to properly be debuffed a massive amount to work). The third Persuasion rank now working, is mostly an enemy check against themselves to spend their first round making a Coup de Gras against THEMSELVES (Important see mechanics of the Coup de Gras ability) if they fail a demeonalize. It seems to work regardless of first round if you use the demoralize again. It might require the enemy not to be shaken yet with demonralize or it to have run its course. In addition to all the other demoralize requirement like within 30 feet, they can hear/see you etc. Very confusing implementation regardless.

The Trickery 1-2 line as I mentioned are very good dispels. The dispels are special abilities with no type (no immunity I believe) and are not effected by Spell Resistance. Another big boost is the eventual +10 Seeker Bonus to Trickery. This greatly enhances the effectiveness of Trickery 1 and 2 Dispels which can be made into arguably the best, most reliable Dispel in the game (enemy boss buff stacking goes poof instantly without spell slot use with 50-60+ Trickery). I know destructive magic works with this ability, but doesn't scale well with it's mechanics (like a DC of 36 for me). The new Dispel Focus feats do work with these dispels, but you're better off using Trickery enhancing skill feats/items for bigger bonuses (checked combat log DCs going up and down based off what I had or removed Deceitful (+4) and Skill focus (+6) are better compared to +2 each for Dispel Focus/Greater Focus.*

Lastly, Seeker Archetype is very thematic for the game's plot itself and MC plot development without going into spoilers. :p :P *

The aims of the build:

1. To create a thematic Nine-Tailed Sorcerer Trickster that completely overhwelms the battlefield with crowd control. By mixing Arcane Bloodline, Mythic Trickster, and Nine-Tailed Heir, the build will reach around DC 40-45+ on Enchant spells, 45-50DCs *Edit Sept 19/24: More like 50-60+ and a lot more debuff now* with Mind Effecting enchant spells (DCs are difficulty checks: A number an enemy has to beat in order for an effect to fail by rolling a D20 + modifiers to surpass that number). Our Conjuration and Illusion DCs will be above average and we use these to pump Enchantment DCs via Expanded Arsenal mythic feat *Edit Sept 19/24: Mo longer stacks various spell foci feats, so you're better off taking Arcane Spirit/Ambuscading Spell which replace this gimmick*. Conjuration will act as a our failsafe/secondary school by focusing on crowd control (CC) and summons that bypass spell resistance and DR. Conjuration CC will also serve to butter up enemies with debuffs/conditions and set up killzones. Our fully feated Summons will have to be our DPS and trickster halberd spells. *Edit Sept 19/24: I Dropped summoning completely upon my return, and picked up the new Mythic feat Corrupter, which makes Poison and Nauseating work on immune foes. That's demons (90% of foes in game) and undead (another 5%), making conjuration a TRUE failsafe and further help defuff and CC enemies with stuff like Stinking Cloud*

2. *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, no longer recommend this just use buffs* In using the Trickster path, we exploit Mythic Tricks to accomplish goal one, while also using Mythic tricks to make a capable beefy backliner caster that's technically all but immune to most, if not all, saving throw fails. The one thing that tends to disable your casters the most. Persuasion Mythic Trick line + Dazzling Display will make enemy initiative obsolete in many cases, allowing our slow full-round casting (due to all the meta magic), to get his/her CCs out the door or just spam AoE paralysis/coup de grace (each display will refresh a 1 minute timer on paralysis). This saves on spell usage and seriously debuffs enemies so they're weaker vs. our other CC DCs in addition to martial attacks.

3. *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, no longer recommend. Go Seeker unless you really want Nine Tailed Heir for RP, and you should always Take World 3 not Trickery 3, so you and make super meta party builds ignoring prerequisites party wide* To exploit the fact that Nine-Tailed + Trickster has essentially three Illusion/Enchant Spellbooks. One Big (Sorc), One Medium (Trickster) and one small (Magic Tails). In combination with Greater Enduring spells, we will be able to download a lot of our buffing power outside of our main spellbook to trickster book/tails. This allows us to take even more communal spells, utility spells and CC spells at lower levels. We become the ultimate buffbot too. By usiing Metamagic: Completely Normal Spell, we can move spells down a level to A) Partially simulate Abundant Casting for higher spells especially and B) Gain + DCs without moving spell slot levels from original slot level. More on that later. *Edit Sept 19/24: Completely Normal Spell + Arcane Bloodline + Fey Bloodline + Trickster spell book are more than enough to make it feel like you're an OP Wizard sorcerer with tons of spell slots and unlimited cast Spell level 1 spells. In addition to the rest of your party spellcasters doing the same.*

Post One: Notes about the build and things i discovered along the way.
Post Two: Build Stats, Equipment and Levelup selections.
Post Three: Reserved/Additional Notes if needed.

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Arcane Nine-Tailed Heir Mythic Trickster *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated see above. but still some helpful hints. Mostly ignore anything to do with Magical Tails and Athletics*

- Bloodline: Arcane *Edit Sept 19th: Note when I changed to Seeker I had to change starting bloodline to Fey. You want School Power which Seeker will eliminate as a bonus in return for Seeker Feats if taken first. You want that +2 extra DC to a school of your choosing more than +2 Spell Penetration from Fey* Even at first glance, its the best bloodline for DCs and its also the bloodline least effected by Nine-Tailed Heir's replacement of bonus Sorc spells. The bloodline is going to add +3 (+1 from Arcane Arcana, +2 from Spell Power) effective DCs to all our Conjuration and Enchantment spells in the end, while still getting bonus spells from the New Arcana bloodline abilities at level 9, 13 and 17). Better yet, we get to pick what bonus spells we want! Perfect for what we're doing.

To revisit a previous point, Arcane Arcana adds +1 to DCs when you increase the slot level of a spell by at least 1 with a metamagic (except heighten). Combine this with the mythic trick feat "Metamagic: Completely Normal Spell." As mentioned, this mythic trick feat moves a spell back one spell slot level without losing DC. This is important for any caster (especially Sorcs who take longer to cast things anyways, regardless of metamagic). Not only can higher spells take up lower spell slots, we can move them back up to their normal levels with metamagic modifiers.

Due to Arcane Arcana, we can return a completely normal spell, which never lost DC, back to its original slot level with Extend or Selective, while at the same time mimicing heighten spell (Arcana giving +1 DC). We end up with a spell thats either exted or sulective, with a free +1 to DCs, with no change in spell slot level. To further exploit this, we can mythic metamagic focus one of these (I would pick Extend), then we can make CC spells that don't effect allies, are extended and have +1 DCs while still keeping the original spell slot level (I won't be doing this last one, but its an option). Conclusion: Our spells will all be metad at the original level, a level below, and for our more important spells, metad for every spell level afterwards with heighten + extend + selective for CC spells. The downside? The hour it will take to do this.

- Trick Fate spell better known as the "I Win" Buff/Button: A buff that makes all rolls a natural 20 for its duration. This build has seven possible casts of this spell. Three of those seven can be metad with extended + completely normal spell, making this a 35 second duration buff. In combat, this will be useful as a spell penetration tactic for all our mind-effecting spells on tough bosses/situations with high spell resist. We will essentially have 20 caster level + 20 roll = 40 spell resist penetration (42 with Goggles of Mind Control for mind-effecting). Note that a natural 20 is not an automatic success in this instance, so anything with 43 spell resist is impossible for us to bypass. Regardless, we can use the buff for the usual "I Win" stuff on you/party, like auto-success hits, auto-success saving throws, ensuring +20 on skill checks, bypassing friendly spell resist for heals/buffs etc.

- *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, no longer recommended. Go trickery 1-2 instead* Saving Throws and the Athletics defensive layer: We're sort of ditching saving throws for Athletics Mythic Tricks Ranks 1 and 2. "Sort of," because we're going to be buffed with so many personal buffs that make our saving throws "almost ok" for a caster. Regardless, these trick ranks are a much more effective defensive layer and anything that gets through your Rank 2 Athletics save, will likely be removed by your Rank 1 ability within seconds. If not that round, then the next one, or the next one after that. For more info, see below in a reply pn this topic:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/5/3044985412463959215/#c3044985412469012972

- The alternative and possibly much better option to Athletics Rank 2: UMD Rank 2 instead will give us unlimited uses of wands. Find a Wand of Heal? We can use it unlimited times a day to heal/remove conditions. Find a Wand of Animate Dead? We can use Animate Dead unlimited times a day. Find a whole bunch of buff wands? We can use them to buff unlimited times a day, freeing up even more spell slots in our spellbooks. Especially since this build takes Greater Enduring spells. *Edit Sept 19/24: You can go UMD 1 and 2, but Completely normal spell usage is better for the most part and you don't really need unlimited cast wands*

- *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, no longer use Athletic tricks in this build type* The Polymorphs cancellation by Athletic Trick Rank 1 Bug: *Edit: Sept 27/21: Patch 1.0.6d broke athletics trick rank 1 altogether* Master Shapeshifter would be a great way to counter stat dumping by mid game in this build, by abusing it with the perma duration Kitsune human form *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, recently Owlcat made Master Shapeshifter affect characters with any polymorph spell like aspects. If you have such buffs you don't need a Kitsune to pull this off,* The problem is Athletics Mythic Trick Rank 1 treats ALL polymorphs as hostile conditions and will dispel them almost instantly per round (powerful ability, but strips our own beneficial conditions too!). I left out Master Shapeshifter in my newest build rendition, but will still include the buff Frightful Presence as an option and in stats, even though it will be cancelled out too. We will take Rift of Ruin or something else until it's fixed. *Edit: Sept 26/21: One of the recent patches, likely 1.0.6d, fixed the athletics trick stripping polymorphs. I can't find the fix in patch notes though. We can now use polymorphs and use change shape to get free/perma +4 to all martial ability scores.*

- Mythic Trick Persuasion Rank 3 or Rank 3 Athletics *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated. I use Persuasion 3 and World 3, taking World 3 first for meta builds across party/pets* or something else? Originally, I was going to pick Persuasion Rank 3 for sure, but Athletics 3 seems useful too by giving you a BAB of 20/15/10/5 when Athletics skill is over the character's level + 5 (Which I guess means for full effect at level 20, you need more than 25 athletics). Honestly, the former version from beta would have been more useful to this build (An Athletics roll for success on every skill check failure. Basically Athletics would have been the one skill check to rule them all and why they probably changed it lol). The problem I have with Persuasion Rank 3 is that I don't see it doing anything and also, there seems to be some buggy friend/foe stuff going on (similar to Athletics Rank 1, but randomly). Sometimes it works normally, other times it effects allies and enemies alike.

- Hideous Laughter + Best Jokes: This solves the one big issue with this spell (other than being Mind-Effecting, which seems to be recently added because the tag wasn't there when I first wrote this build. Good for DCs, bad for immunity vs. it). Being single target always meant we were going for Conjuration spells most of the time for CC. Instead, it now performs more like a sleep spell with a chain reaction mechanic that will infect everyone on the screen with enough DC. We're going to metamagic this to death and at all available levels. Just like Grease and mid/high level summons. :p

- The Two Nasty Trickster CCs: Hallucinogenic Cloud and Charm Whatever. First of all, these both ignore spell resistance unlike all other Mind effecting spells that I know of. The first one is Illusion, therefore it will have lower DCs (still gets +4 from illusion Foci + DC to mind effecting spells from various items in loadout). Its a Confusion CLOUD that lasts 1 minute per level. Nuff said (DC for this spell in the build is 31 base, 35 metad to spell level 7). Charm Whatever is Dominate Person/Monster against everything, and doesn't appear to have any tag restrictions like Mind-Effecting, Compulsion, emotional etc. With high enough DC, anything can become your minion (DC for this spell in this build is 41 base, 42 fully metad. The lower enchant DC is the drawback of not counting as a Mind Effecting spell, but the gain is much more useful).

- Added Selective spell to the build. Unlike the PnP Metamagic: Selective Spell, the in-game one makes almost all AoE spells not effect ANY allies at all. We need this. Unfortunately, the spell we need it for the most (Trickster's Hallucinogenic Cloud), can't be modified by it and Life Bubble is broken right now. :/ :/

- A quick note on Magical Tails: Tail Confusion and Dominate tails are on par or have better DCs in the end than fully metad versions in sorc book. In the old version of this build I did a test. Even after maxing a normal Dominate Person's DCs with heighten to 43, it was still two DC lower than its Magical Tail counterpart. Even the buffs will have higher DCs vs dispels. Yet another reason not to learn spells already available as Magical Tails in your main spellbook.

Notable Stats by endgame: *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated.*
*This does not include skillbooks where you can get +1 enchant DCs, +1 Conjure DCs, and +1 Mind Effecting spell DCs etc. on top of the below. It also doesn't count the +1 to will DCs from Quarterstaff of Coercion. So there's another possible +2 DCs more or less to spells from reading books and +1 from staff.*

Naked/Unbuffed/No Meta Magic - 9 AC // BAB 10/5 // 20 spell Penetration //36 Athletics, 35 Persuasion // Cantrip Daze 28 DC (Enchant, Mind Effecting, Compulsion, Baseline), Acid Splash 26 DC (Conjuration, Baseline) // Slot Level Two Hideous Laughter DC 30 (Enchant, Mind Effecting, Compulsion, Baseline) Slot Level One Grease 24 DC (Conjuration, Baseline). Most enchant DC are covering around 35-37 (probably compulsion getting to 37).

Equipment/Unbuffed/Metad - 26 AC // BAB 17/12 // 20-22 Spell Penetration // 49 Athletics, 46 Persuasion // Cantrip Daze 39 DC, Acid Splash 28 DC (Conjuration // Slot Level Two Hideous Laughter DC 42 (Now Extended), Level One Grease 28 DC (Now Selective). Most enchant DC are hovering around a DC of 41-45 now, with higher slots being about DC 47-48).

Equipment+Self Buffed/Metad - 50ish AC, 43ish flat Footed, 25ish Touched // BAB = 21/21/16 (not using Athletics Rank 3)// 20 Spell Penetration // 52 Athletics, 50 Persuasion // No difference to DCs of spells // We get up to 66(!) stealth from all the stacking of illusion spells and various buffs // Immuned to all elemental damage including negative (from death ward hat, but that can be done through normal buffs frin ither party members).

Ending Buffed Stats: 15 STR, 23 DEX, 16 CON, 24 INT, 13 WIS (oh so immersive for Kitsune/Trickster lol), 30 CHA. (During test I had +1 to all these, probably because I added bracers after picking up Arcane Trick Rank 1 or something lol).

Saving throws with Athletics defensive layers: 19ish Fort, 23ish Reflex, 23ish Will, 10% chance to save automatically, 0% auto failure chance // Athletics Mythic Trick Rank 2 37ish effective backup Skill check for save success (which can only be reduced by STR level drains) // Athletics Mythic Trick Rank 1 clearing one condition every round at a 47ish effective dispel modifier.

End Spells Per Day with Equipment (more or less):
Non-Mythic - Spell Levels 1-2: 9 per day each // 3-6: 8 // 7-9: 7.
Mythic - Spell Levels 1-5: five per day each // Level 6: four per day // Level 7: three per day.
9 Tails x2 for 18 spells including some useless/redundant spells by lvl 20, but also two casts of DC 49 confusion and two casts of DC 44 Dominate Person.

[Balekai]

Equipment (SPOILERS): *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated. Some of the equipment listed here isn't actually in the game, or is hardlocked behind something like Mythic Trick Nature 3.*

*All of this equipment is subject to the realty of actually getting it ingame or not.*

Helm: Lots of options. Shy Lily Artifact Helm (+4 profane STR, +2 Profane AC) or Crown of Fear (+4 Intimidate checks). Crown of Warding for perma Death Ward. +8 to mental ability scores. Whatever floats your boat here.

Goggles/Glasses: Goggles of Mind Control (+2 caster level and DCs for mind-Effecting Spells). Alternatively, you can use Goggles of Quick Grasp (+15 Persuasion skill checks and to all knowledge checks) and make up DC somewhere else. It would be great if latter googles stacked with other persuasion buffs based on wording, but it says it conflicts with other items like Mesmerizing Robe so...

Cloak: The Bound of Possibility (+10 to Skill checks on Saving Throw Fail) . Technically this should be perfect for our Athletic Saving throw layer if it works with it. It means we have an effective saving throw of 47 from Rank 2 Athletics and 57 on Rank 1 condition clear. However, it debuffs you with an -1 AC, -1 attack bonus & -1 Damage until the "end of next combat." This isn't bad if its a static debuff. If it stacks with itself we're better off with another cloak. Enchanter's Cape (+1 Enchant DC) as an idea. *Note: I overlooked our investment into Athletics Mythic Trick Rank 1. It should deal with this negative "sad condition" by dispelling it.*

Ring 1: Ring of Chaotic Fascination (+2 DC to Enchant Mind Effecting spells, +2 saving throws vs same).

Ring 2: Artifact Ring of Summons (AoE 39ft Ally/self Buff giving +2 to weapon damage rolls and +2 to saving throws vs. chaotic), Can be swapped for other useful rings.

Bracers: Legendary Bracers (Player only item that basically encompasses all stat bonuses for +6 and all defensive modifiers at +5. Awesome item for saving equipment space and enables this build's item loadout). I just hope its not Legend Mythic only. :P

Gloves: Twisted Temptations: +2 Enchantment DCs and -3 debuff to saves for 3 rounds on first effect landed). You land one effect and the rest thereafter are easier to land for 18 seconds.

Amulet: Glass Amulet of Clarity (+2 to Minf Effecting DCs, +4 to saving throws vs Mind Effecting spells. Latter part not as useful as we have athletic saves). Drezen Jewelry Craft Act 3.

Body Armor: Mesmerizing Robe (+10 Persuasion) would be good here. I hope this is in-game. It has graphical art unlike some other Kingmaker items so that's good news.

Shirt: Wandering Conman (+10 athletics, Trickery, replaces boots so you can take Boots of Grounding instead of Athletics bonus boots). Robe of Mephistopheles (Best in slot If its a Boss drop or something and not a Devil path only reward. It has a perma 30ft aura that gives enemies -4 to saving throws vs. every mind/emotion/fear effect. It also has a once per day ability which makes all enemies beserk/hostile to another on save fail for a minute duration).

Belt: Belt of Demonic Shadow (Summons, then heals a level 7 shadow Demon each time you use a level +6 spell for 2 minutes). Its a distraction mob be quiet! :p . Actually it will probably work good that way and is probably best in slot for this build/item loadout. This belt can be replaced with something like Display of Power (-2 will saves in a 15ft radius AoE Debuff), probably better on a melee char though.

Boots: Boots of Perfect Grounding (immune to electricity, stuns and staggers. +2 DC to acid spells). If you can't get these or have no athletics bonus, use Expedition Boots (+10 to Athletics, +5 Mobility and your saving throw item). There's a very good artifact version which screams "put me on your tank" though. The boots are called Ronneck's Sacrifice (+8 DEX, +10 Mobility/Athletics, doubles mods from Haste spell on wearer, enemies that confirm crit on wearer become stunned for 1d4 rounds and I don't see any mention of a DC).

Weapon 1: Quarterstaff of Coercion (+1 to all will save DCs by player)from the Blackwing Library for most of the game. If Riftcarver is unavailable or too late to weapon focus in, Use Quarterstaff weapon focus instead for dazzling display. At least until you possibly respec or only switch to Riftcarver to summon it's demon packs by carrying it in weapon slot 2.

Weapon 2: Riftcarver: This is partially the reason why we take the Farmhand background. We can now equip Riftcarver and summon packs of Demons every 60 seconds. It summons about 3-4 random demons at level 13-17ish based on pack theme. There's a pack with two Babau Infiltrator (mutagen fighters with teleport, some defensive buffs), one Lilitu (defensive buffs, bewildering injury, Dominate Monster, Unholy Aura), and one Incubus Dominator (Witch with Evil Eye, Ward and some enchantment/necro spells up to level 4). A second pack is possible with one Lvl 13 Gilbrileth Contaminator (Stench AoE Buff/Debuff, Confuse, Haste, Droning Wings, Contagion abilities), One lvl 14 Nalfeshnee (Truee Seeing, Unholy Aura and Unholy Numbus, Feeblemind abilities) and one lvl 15 Incubus Dominator (same as before) Pack. All these guys are effected by Ascendant Summons.


Heritage: Kitsune

Background: *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, You should almost always go Pickpocket for Initiative boost. Then combine with Hare Arcane Bloodline pet for another +4 Initiative, or go a +3 persuasion pet, but initiative is VERY important for this build type. you want to act first and get those CCs/debuffs off ASAP* Craftsman --> Farmhand. This gives us Athletics for a class skill, +1 to fort for early saves and Scythe proficiency for picking up Deskari's Riftcarver if possible.

Starting Stats: *Edit Sept 19/24: Outdated, I play around with various odd numbers compared to usual character Ability stat setups, because Arcane Trick Rank 1 adds +1 enhancement bonus to all item enchantment bonuses on items identified by you. Meaning ability enhancement items will add "odd" number bonuses, not "even" eventually (Take Arcane Mythic Trick Rank 1 ASAP as first, so as many items as possible have +1 enhancement). This has a lot of potential to save Ability points for more efficient min/maxing since the usual rules for having even numbers for ability bonuses are reversed, save for intelligence when it comes to skill points.*

I have decided on 11 STR, 9 Dex, 10 CON, 17+1 (18) INT, 7 WIS, 20+ 4 (24) CHA. The important thing is to not lower STR too much (unlike usual STR dumping) while dumpinf a little of everything. Again, the plan is to replace dumped saving throws with Athletics Mythic Trick Ranks 1 and 2. Which means we can ignore saving throw buffs and go for DC bonuses, summon and skill items to increase our offensive+CC power.

Mythic Tricks: Persuasion 3, World 3, Perception 2, Athletics 2, Trickery 1, rest are optionable. I would go with Stealth 1, Arcane or Nature 1, and UMD 1. Relogion 1 if an option 2 if you can get it high enough. Then you can strip conditions once per character per day with treat affliction. Mobility 1 isn't too useful because out speed is already buffed by 24 hour spells.

Skills:
Athletics 20, Knowledge World 20, Perception 20, Persuasion 20, Trickery 18, 1 Arcane Knowledge (for identifying activation since we have around 18 arcana with no investment), 1 UMD (needed to use divination wands. Especially if you go alternative UMD trick 2 route). We get Trickery 18 from Fast learner feat by respeccing the build if we're not Mythic Level 10 by level 19. This will give us an effective dispel at will with Trickery Mythic Trick Rank 1. Feel free to dump this stat for another, or exploit Fast learner to reduce investment into INT. Or you can ignore Fast Learner all together, take 1-2 skill points out of world for arcane/stealth and call it a day.

Non-Mythic Feats, Abilities and Spells:
Level 1: Metamagic: Selective Spell // Spell Focus: Conjuration // Jerboa Familar (+3 Athletics) // Class Skill: World // Spells: Mage Armor, Grease.
Level 2: Nil.
Level 3: Metamagic: Metamagic: Extend Spell // Protection of Alignment (might as well be us making it a 24 hour buff).
Level 4: +1 INT // Glitterdust.
Level 5: Metamagic: Heighten Spell // Shield, Hideous Laughter.
Level 6: Stinking Cloud.
Level 7: Weapon Focus - Quarterstaff (+1 Mind Effecting DC, switch to Deskari's Riftcarver for summons every 60 secs or spec to weapon focus Scythe) // Bonus Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration // Snowball, Animal Aspect, Resist Energy - Communal.
Level 8: Animate Dead.
Level 9: Dazzling Display // New Arcana - Acid Pit // Web, Heroism, Protection from Energy - Communal.
Level 10: Cloudkill.
Level 11: Metamagic: Completely Normal Spell (Might be too early) // Mirror Image (These can be eater up by attacks so more the better), Protection from Arrows - Communal, Protection from Energy - Communal, Crushing Despair, Life bubble (30ft bubble that protects against enemy clouds and our Hallucinogenic Cloud. Unfortunately, its bugged because it seems not to be linked correctly to the spell's effect).
Level 12: Heroism - Greater
Level 13: Augment Summoning // Bonus Spell Feat - Spell Focus: Illusion // New Arcana- Create Undead // Animal Aspect - Greater, Feeblemind, True Seeing.
Level 14: Shadow Conjuration - Greater. (With Trickster version, this gives us more utility. Plus these count as Dimension Door spells for moving your armies). :)
Level 15: Skill Focus Athletics // School Power - Conjuration // Mind Fog, Acid Fog (even with demons being immuned to acid damage, i'm hoping they're not immuned to the corrosion effect vs. ranged projectiles. So we can hopefully make this selective and our allies can shoot them without a fuss, but they can't shoot us as easy), Joyful Rapture.
Level 16: . Angelic Aspect - Greater.
Level 17: Fast Learner // New Arcana - Seamantle // Waves of Ecstasy, Summon Monster XIII.
Level 18: Heroic Invocation.
Level 19: Superior Summoning // Bonus Spell Feat - Greater Spell Focus - Illusion // Rift of Ruin, Power word - Stun, Euphoric Tranquility, Mind Blank or Frightful Aspect (when Polys work w/ athletics trick), Summon Monster IX.
Level 20: Overwhelming Presence or Power Word - Kill.

Mythic Feats, Abilities and Spells:

Level 1: Bit of Fun // Best Jokes
Level 2: Extra Mythic Ability - Enduring Spells.
Level 3: Choose Trickster // Greater Enduring Spells // Persuasion Mythic Trick Rank 1 // Expeditious Retreat, Feather Step, Wand of Summon Monster Zero.
Level 4: Expanded Arsenal - Enchantment // Athletics Trick Ranks 1 and Persuasion Mythic Trick Rank 2 // Grease, Hideous Laughter. Mirror image.
Level 5: Archmage Armor // Arcana Trick Rank 1 // Snowball, Find Traps, Blink, Stinking Cloud.
Level 6: Spell Focus Mythic -Conjuration // Perception Mythic Trick Rank 1 and Rank 2 // Reduce Person, Blur, Slow, Greater Invisibility, Shadow Conjuration.
Level 7: Ascendant Summons // UMD Trick Rank 1 // Persuasion Mythic Trick Rank 3 // Find Traps, Dominate Animal, Reduce Person Mass, Feeblemind, Mind Fog.
Level 8: Mythic Skill Focus: Athletics // World Trick Rank 1 // Athletics Mythic Trick Rank 2 (Or UMD 2 dropping Athletics 2 for unlimited Wand use for unlimited heals or restorations etc.) // Displacement, Phantasmal Killer, Phantasmal Web, Phantasmal Putefaction, Umbral Strike.
Level 9: Master Shapeshifting // World Trick Rank 1 and 2 // Hold Person, Chameleon Strike - Greater, Dominate Person, Cat's Grace - Mass, Insanity, Shadow Conjuration - Greater
Level 10: Extra Mythic Ability - Mythic Spell Focus: illusion // Trickery Mythic Trickery Rank 1 // World Mythic Trick Rank 3 // Complete your Mythic Spell List.

When it comes to

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That's finally it. I would be surprised if anyone got this far. :p

Link to Mythic Trick list: https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/guides/Tricks#:~:text=The%20progression%20is%20as%20follows%3A%20%20%20,Act%204%20%E2%80%A0%20%201%20more%20rows%20

[Balekai]

- Reserved. *Edit: Sept 20/24 I knew this would come in handy. Now I don't need to necro bump this topic in order to post my newest build based on all of the changes. New Topic for this build is here:* https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/5/4845399746422979824/

SEEKER KITSUNE TRICKSTER (Current):

Heritage: Kitsune (Mostly RP/Theme reasons still here, but you get +2 CHA, +2 DEX bonuses and +1 Enchantment DC Bonus, at -2 STR penalty. You can also polymorth at will/permanently, possibly making use of Master Shapeshifter, but not as useful now that all Polymorph spells count for the Mythic Feat.

Background: Pickpocket. Not only is it the best meta background, but it makes perfect sence RP wise for our build. Initiative is very Important here as CC builds want to act before the enemy and hopefully disable them before they attack. The +2 from this and later +4 from Hare familiar pet, we can achieve +6 Initiative without lifting a finger. The build ends with around 18-20 Initiative.

Starting Bloodline: START WITH FEY BLOODLINE SO YOU GET AN EXTRA +2 DC FROM the Arcane BLOODLINE'S "School Power" LEVEL 15 CAPSTONE. The Seeker Sorcerer archetype eliminates this capstone or any level 15 capstone for the extra Seeker Feats, but does not effect the Second Bloodline from Mythic levels. The Fey +2 to Spell Resistance bypass is less important than +2 DC. :)

Religion: I like Athiesm for story reasons, but Cayden, Desna etc. fits.

Eventual Arcane Bloodline Familiar: Hare (+2 Initiative, +2 Stealth and Trickery) OR Raven or Viper Familar (for the +3 Persuasion)

Alignment: Start CN or CG. CN is safest for alignment shifts later and becoming/maintaining Trickster i believe, if memory serves.

Starting Ability Scores:
A couple ways you can play this due to Arcane Mythic Trick Rank 1, since most items that add enhancement bonuses will now add odd numbers rather than even numbers (for example instead of +4 it will be +5 to say all mental stats from a +4 Headband of Mental Perfection).

Due to some late game gear picks I can't take advantage of this across all my Ability Scores. For example Display of Power belt form Chapter 4 (+6 Str belt with -2 enemy Will saves within 15 Feet), won't be giving me +7 to DEX or CON for that belt slot. However, I will be using it to get another +1 bonus from CHA. I will have to to use Cat's Grace and Bear's endurance, No biggy,

My Final Starting decision on Ability Scores:
7 STR (OK for early game carrying weight and STR drain won't kill me as fast), 12 DEX (no belt buff. you could dump STR to 5 and bump this up to 14-15 for more Initiative), 10 CON (no Belt Buff), 16 INT(18 with late game +2 Inherit Intelligence book, which will allow us to get Perception to 16-20 ranks), 9 WIS (will lget rounded up to even number with Arcane tricked mental headbeands etc.), CHA 20+5(25, again which will round to an even number).

I would love to pick a certain War Table decision to get the Kingmaker +2 Alchemal Bonus to all Stats (was Inherit, but now Alchemical, so not stacks with books), but a certain item from another choice there is better for the build (Quick Grasp Goggles, that add +15 Persuasion and +10 to all Knowledge skill checks, allowing us to get super high Demoralize checks and pass some story secret ending skill checks much easier).

Final Skills:
UMD 1, Perception 16 (will be around 9 ranks before you get book bonus, which hopefully you can still level to 20 to get the skill points at that point due to being inherit bonus), Persuasion 20, Trickery 20, World Knowledge 1, Nature Knowledge 1, Stealth 1 Arcane Knowledge 20. Prioritise Persuasion, Trickery, Arcana, and dump extra into Perception for later or 1 point into World and Nature to activate the class skill bonuses.

Normal Level Feats, Abilities and Spell Progression (Mythic Progression will come after, as it doesn't always match up exactly with levels. The hardest qualifier being trying to work in Completely Normal Metamagic at the earliest. The build puts it in where the minimal level is required for that Mythic level and you may under level the pick or over level past it):

Level 1: Feat - Arcane Spirit OR Ambuscading Spell // Bloodline: Fey // Sorcerer Bonus Feat - Metamagic: Selective Spell // Class Skill: World // Spells: Mage Armour, Grease

Level 2: Nil.

Level 3: Feat - Arcane Spirit OR Ambuscading Spell, whichever one you didn't pick first // Spell - Protection of Alignment.

Level 4: +1 CHA // Spell - Glitterdust.

Level 5: Feat - Spell Penetration // Seeker Bonus Feat - Meta Magic: Extend Spell // Spells - Shield, Web OR Mortal Terror (remember to make a Selective metamagic version of Grease now, then a Selective metamgic version Glitterdust soon)

Level 6: Spells - Protection from Arrows, Communal (Or Resist Energy, Communal, can't remember which one is more useful at this point). Also note your first Mythic level comes in here at this point if I remember correctly, maybe even level 5 so now you get Second Bloodline, the extra spell DC, bonus spells, extra class skill (World) and the Hare Familiar for more Initiative.

Level 7: Feat - Improved Initiative // Bloodline Bonus Feat - Spell Focus: Conjuration // Spells - Enlarge Person, Web (or Mortal Terror whatever you didn't pick), Stinking Cloud.

Level 8: Spell - Acid Pit.

Level 9: Feat - Heighten Spell // New Arcana - Crushing Despair // Spells - Haunting Mist, Resist Energy: Communal, Protection from Energy - Communal.

Level 10: Seeker Bonus Feat - Greater Spell Penetration // Spell - Cloudkill

Level 11: Feat - Persuasive // Spells Blur, Slow (or See Invisibility Communal), Greater Invisibility, Life Bubble OR Feeblemind OR Mind Fog.

Level 12: Chains of Light

Level 13: Completely Normal (Hopefully) // Bloodline Spell Feat - Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration // New Arcana - Heroism, Greater (it adds to +4 morale bonus to skill checks unlike Heroic Invocation) // Mind Fog, Feeblemind OR Life Bubble if you didn't take before), Serenity OR Acid Fog.

Level 14: Ice Body (If you take Master Shapershifter, this in addition to Kitsune Shape will trigger +4 Martial Stats).

Level 15: Feat - Skill Focus: Deceitful // Seeker Bonus Feat - Meta Magic: Quicken Spell // School Power - Enchantment // Spells - Animal Growth, Sirocco, Joyful Rapture.

Level 16: Sea Mantle.

Level 17: Feat - Skill Focus Persuasion // New Arcana - Angelic Aspect Greater // Spells, Insanity OR Power Word: Blind, Frightful Aspect.

Level 18: Overwhelming Presence

Level 19: Feat - Skill Focus: Trickery OR because you can pick anything you want really by this point, you can pick up things like Improved Elven Immunities for +1 Enchantment DC and +2 saving throws vs. Enchantment (Better Spell Focus). Look thruogh the list of available feats. Be careful though as some will just not work without actual class, or because class level is 0 (like for Witch Hexes), you don't get a Caster level bonus DCs to Hex. // Bloodline Feat - Meta Magic: Reach // Rift of Ruin, Winds of Vengeance.

Level 20: Last Spell Hold Monsteror, Mass OR Power Word - Kill OR Weird OR Mind Blank Communal, or Heroic Invocation (I try to take those last two on other companions or through spontaneous rings.

MYTHIC
Mythic Trick Ranks: Persuasion 3, World 3, Perception 2, Trickery 2, Arcane 1, rest are optional. I would go with Stealth 1,Nature 1, UMD 1.

Mythic Feats, Abilities and Spells Progression:

Level 1: Bit of Fun // Mythic Feat - Second Bloodline: Arcane

Level 2: Mythic Ability - Extra Mythic Ability: Enduring Spells.

Level 3: Choose Trickster (of course lol) // Mythic Ability - Greater Enduring Spells // Arcane Mythic Trick Rank 1 // Expeditious Retreat, Feather Step, Colour Spray.

Level 4: Mythic Feat - Extra Mythic Ability: Corruption (ASAP, so poisons and nauseous work on Demons etc, really upping your CC/Debuff game as if we're playing Kingmaker again) // Perception Ranks 1 and 2 (Hopefully you're close to a feat level so you can pick Completely Normal Spell right away. Otherwise, take Deceitful or a Skill focus feat for Persuasion or Trickery. Or respec) // Vanish, Mirror Image . Find Traps.

Level 5: Mythic Ability - Best Jokes// Trickery Trick Rank 1 // Reduce Person, Chameleon Stride), Slow , Displacement.

Level 6: Mythic Feat - Expanded School Enchantent// World Mythic Trick Rank 1 and Rank 2 // Snowball, Hideous Laughter, Hold Person OR Slow whichever one you didn't pick up, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer.

Level 7: Mythic Ability - Last Stand OR Archmage Armour OR Master Shapeshifter OR Expanded School Illusion OR Favourite Metamagic: Selective (for cantrip level AoE spells, so you can spam stuff like Cantriped Colour Sprays for the stun and no longer effect allies. I would go for one of the later 4)// Persuasion Trick Rank 1 // World Mythic Trick Rank 3 // Blur, Hold Person, Shadow Conjuration, Feeblemind, Mind Fog.

Level 8: Mythic Feat - Spell Penetration, Mythic // Stealth Rank 1 (or Nature, UMD) and Trickery Rank 2 // Eagle's Splendor, Dominate Animal, Chameleon Stride, Greater, Dominate, Phantasmal Putrefaction, Cat's Grace Mass

Level 9: Mythic Ability - Like level 7, but one of the ones you didn't pick // Stealth OR Nature OR UMD Trick Rank 1 and Perception Rank 2 (a must at this point) // Blink, Rainbow Pattern, Phantasmal Web, Eagle's Splendor Mass, Insanity, Shadow Conjuration, Greater.

Level 10: Mythic Feat - Spell Penetration (wish I haf room for this earlier, // Trickery Mythic Trickery Rank 1 whatever is left from the above // World Mythic Trick Rank 3 // Complete your Mythic Spell List.

One last thing: You can cheese respec with Work Rank 3, by doing everything you want to with it (respec all your pets/companions) then respec out of it yourself. You can also do this in order to take Peruasion mythic rankups early too and move World mythic rankups farther ahead (or not take them at all unlocking something else. I try not to do this because that's super cheese lol.



Equipment (SPOILERS):

Helm: Lots of options. Mental Perfection Hats preferably as you go, ending with Flawless Headband of Mental Perfection with +8 to Mental Stats and immunity to Mind Effecting Spells. Not only do we need the extra DC and mental stats, but it's our main character that does all the biggest DC chests, and needs to not die or be disabled by mind control.

Goggles/Glasses:
- Goggles of Mind Control (+2 caster level and DCs for mind-Effecting Spells). Hidden behind a double puzzle in the Enigma) for DC checks.
- Goggles of Quick Grasp (+15 Persuasion skill checks and to all knowledge checks). Note that the Quick Grasp Goggles as an event reward, compete with Potion of Transmutation (Perma +2 to all stats) in a Diplomacy Act 5 decision. Potion is a Gift from "Gift from the Young Kingdom" (Our Kingmaker Kingdom as Bokken is obviously making potions still). Googles of Quick Grasp are a Gift from the Royal Council.
- Goggles of Piercing Gaze (+10 to Persuasion, Act 4, Upper City, Rooftop above Savamelekh's Mansion). Good alternative to Quick Grasp for getting Persuasion high enough.
- Rascal's Goggles (+10 Perception and Trickery). Act 4, Ten Thousand Delights (Herrax shop). Like Preicing Gaze Goggles but for Trickery.

Cloak: The Bound of Possibility (+10 to Skill checks and Saving Throws for 1 round on Saving Throw Fail). It's better than it used to be for Trickster as there's no longer an evil stacking debuff on multiple stats until the end of next combat (problematic for CC spellcasters still with the -AC, but martial or DPS spellcaster Tricksters really had it bad if they failed saves. One might want to use something like like Scarlet Allure (+3 saves, but we find a place to add a Morale +5 to Persuasion if we have no other item. (Act 4, Herrax, Ten Thousand Delights). That said that's a Morale bonus to Persuasion, which we get +4 from Heroism Greater. In that case Boundless is probably best for more Persuasion and all other skills and saving throws during tough fights (if it all stacks properly, have never tested). Of course a normal +8 saves cloak would do just fine.

Ring 1: Ring of Chaotic Fascination (+2 DC to Enchant Mind Effecting spells, +2 saving throws vs same. *SPOILERS* YOU MUST ALLOW THE CULTISTS NEAR STAUNTON's BROTHER SUMMON THE BLIGHTMAW. Don't kill any of them beforehand and the ring will drop from the demon. A level 20 mob but can be beaten easily by Glitterdust (kills its magical concealment), Grease, Web, aligned Weapons (good), Smites and any summon belt trinkets (Tankard of Free spirits and Duality Conjuration will give you high level Azata and 3 Movanic Devas if good/neutral which will pulverize him).

Ring 2: Magician Ring (+2 to Illusion DCs, which can be found around the end of Chapter 2 from Crusading).

Bracers: Bracers of Mind Break (+4 armour bracers that give +2 Enchantment DCs found as loot off on Captain Mielarah in the Bad Luck Tavern. Or if she's your Captain to Colyphyr Mines).

Gloves: Twisted Temptation: +2 Enchantment DCs and -3 debuff to saves for 3 rounds on first effect landed). You land one effect and the rest thereafter are easier to land for 18 seconds. (Midnight Fane).

Amulet: Glass Amulet of Clarity (+2 to Mind Effecting DCs, +4 to saving throws vs Mind Effecting spells. Bought from Jewelry Vendor in Drezen).

Body Armour: Haramaki of Divine Guidance (+4 sacred bonus to saves which stacks with boundless/other save cloaks. Act 4, Woljif's shop). Or Robe of Transmutation looted from Vallexia). Honorable Mention: Jester's Vest which gives +2 to Hidoes Laughter DC, but only available with Nature 3 I believe and Padded Armour so no go for Sorcerer.

Shirt: Robe of the Seven Sins is perfect (+3 to Caster level, +1 DC to all spells, +5 to overcome Spell Resistance) found in the Midnight Isles in Act 4. Alternatively Robe of Determination (+2 Fort DCs and +2 Caster Levels. Act 4, Middle City looted from the Thrall Hunter Master)

Belt: Display of Power (Strength +6 grants its wearer a 15-feet aura that makes all enemies in range suffer a -2 penalty on Will saving throw). Pr chased from Wirlong the Black Mask in Act 4).

Boots: Any.

Weapon 1: Quarterstaff of the War Mage (+2 DCs of all spells cast, +4 to overcome spell resistance, Ivory Sanctum in a hidden compartment in the central room with the large statue of Baphomet). Quarterstaff of Coercion (+1 to all will save DCs by player)from the Blackwing Library for most of the game.

Usable Items: Devil Imp (+2 Profane bonus to Stealth and Trickery; book with a pentagram next to Zacharius Lost Chapel. You need Zacharius Wand form Leper's Smile), Lockpick Kits 1-3 as you find/buy them (for Trickery bonus, Midnight isles). Any for rest.

[Aebleskiver]

Imma respec to this build. I love the idea of a 9 tailed trickster sorc

[Roadie]

The one thing I'd point out here... Stealth may not be very useful even with all the buffs and mythic stuff. I've seen reports of people repeatedly seeing enemies with, like, Perception of +80 on Core difficulty before level 10, so it might take a truly absurd totally monofocused build to make Stealth useful at all over time.

[Aebleskiver]

That might be a bug. I ran into one similar where 3 of my party members had 75 int and wisdom when i used stat increase spell and potions

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Aebleskiver:

Imma respec to this build. I love the idea of a 9 tailed trickster sorc

Me too (of course). I was hoping Kitsune and especially Nine-Tailed Heir, were going to make it into Kingmaker once I spotted them as a race with their juicy abilities. I have been itching to play a carefree, CG/CN arcane character with a proper theme/plot geared around them. Any attempts in other CRPGs including Kingmaker always end up NG/LG. Sort of like all my LE attempts always become LN/LG (My heart can't take it). This race/class and the Mythic Trickster path seemed like my best bet at a Chaotic Funny/Crazy Narrative. :)

If you have time let me know if you run into any problems or suggestions when it comes to progress. I'm still delayed on my own playthrough now for RL reasons.

My guess on some cons of the build being:

Spell resistance will get annoying when you want to use some mind-control spells with little spell penetration vs. enemies with super high resistances (which there are a lot of from reports). As usual (as I did in Kingmaker) you end up going with plan B using CC from Conjuration or using summons. It worked great in the previous game. Unlike Kingmaker, some poison/acid based spells will not be too useful damage/effect wise vs. Demons if at all (more for cultists). A possible replacement for those is Trickster's Hallucinogenic Cloud: It's mind effecting (which means it will have like a 45DC endgame), bypasses spell resistance and causes confusion. Of course, you can still cast your dazzling display.

Originally posted by Roadie:

The one thing I'd point out here... Stealth may not be very useful even with all the buffs and mythic stuff. I've seen reports of people repeatedly seeing enemies with, like, Perception of +80 on Core difficulty before level 10, so it might take a truly absurd totally monofocused build to make Stealth useful at all over time.

Yeah I was reading that too on the forums this morning. Now it wouldn't take much to get to 60-70ish stealth with this build if you dumped Trickery for Stealth. The Stealth Mythic Trick 1 is its own "stealth" ability that can be used (it doesn't replace normal stealth button stealth I think). It makes it basically an invisibility spell at will and one detection doesn't reveal you to everyone (unlike normal steam from my understanding). Combined with all the concealment buffs and stacking with Greater Invisibility, I think you could get to perma stealth. Is it worth it though? I don't know. The 50 stealth skill was just a bit of a surprise because I didn't know how much all those buffs stack. 40-50ish stealth with no investment but a throw away trick is pretty neat. The build also uses Illusion Foci like Conjuration foci to boost Enchantment DC. So you have a +4 DC to Illusion buffs :)

I knew that by going into Trickery, I would have a better dispel magi option, the ability to pick locks etc, and have a thematic skill too. How can I be the greatest trickster ever if I DON'T HAVE TRICKERY! :D :D

[Aebleskiver]

why the focus on getting rid of saving throws? Is it just to utilize mythic trickster?

[Aebleskiver]

Oh another question, which spells would you use metamagic extend on?

[Balekai]

Good questions.

Originally posted by Aebleskiver:

why the focus on getting rid of saving throws? Is it just to utilize mythic trickster?

This became a lot longer of an answer than I thought due to interesting testing results. The focus on ignoring your saving throws is two fold. The first reason is because the Athletics Mythic Ranks 1 and 2 appear to offer a much better defensive layer, especially for casters vs. a whole array of nastly debuffs. Even if you do manage to get decent saving throws with this build, the Athletic Tricks in theory, prevents you from being wrecked by conditions like ability score drains, level drains. polymorphs etc. Lets see if the theory is true.

Lets Take a look at actually FOUR Mythic Trick Ranks in this build:

Athletics 1: Every round you attempt an Athletics check to remove one negative condition affecting you. The DC of this check is equal to the effect's original save DC + 15.

Athletics 2: Every time you fail a saving throw, you can make an athletics check against DC equal to the original save DC + 20. If you succeed, you automatically pass the saving throw.

And what I initially overlooked:

Knowledge World 1 Whenever you, or anyone within 50 feet from you, make a skill check other than Knowledge: world, you attempt a Knowledge: world check to add half your mythic rank to the original check. The DC of this check is equal to the check's original save DC.

Knowledge World 2 Every time a member of your party would roll a 1 on a d20 roll the result of the roll instead becomes 20.

FYI: Trick World 2 works on the player too and completely eliminates automatic failure of saving throws (and attacks) from the build. Period (I confirmed it works while testing other stuff below). Not only that, you have a 10% chance, not a 5% chance, for an automatic success in all checks due to a roll of 1 being a roll of 20 now. :D

Unfortunately, World Rank 1 doesn't seem to add a +5 mod from Mythic Level. It may only add to skill checks for things like like trap disarm or dialogue and not combat checks. Still I left the possibility of it modifying in the numbers below.

My Fully Buffed saving throws at Level 20: 23 Fort, 23 Reflex, 24 Will (Pretty trashy as per spell casters vs bosses and high end enemies).

By level 20/10 Mythic I also have 54ish Athletics. Now take into account World Rank 1 with 52 World skill should add (doesn't as mentioned) a +5 more often than not for 54-59. Then add in Mythic Athletics Focus, giving the character an effective 64-69 Athletics due to automatically save if a D20 roll of 10 would be enough to pass the check. Mythic Athletics Focus should eliminate an auto fail on rolling 1, but that's already done by World Trick Rank 2.

Back to the the Athletic Trick Ranks:

Athletics Rank 1 - Athletics check to remove one negative condition per round is 54 to 59 (We can't count Mythic skill Focus here because its conditional) -15 (penalty to check in description) = 29-34 caster level check. The DC of any negative condition has to be at least 60-65 DC (39 to 44 + 20 D20 dice roll is auto success for dispel, so DC need to be one more to fail. Edit: I forgot that things like dispels and spell penetration do not have automatic save/fails unlike saving throws. So there's no 10% of auto success rate on either rank 1 or 2 check because they're skill checks.

In-game examples from Athletics Rank 1 bug dispelling my Frightful Aspect and Katsune Shape:

*Player dispels Frightful Aspect on Player: DC 28 Caster Level Check: 41 (roll 2 +39 Modifier) Result Success.*

Then enabled a mod option that made me roll all 1s and found this out, as mentioned above:

*Player dispels [DRAFT] Change Shape Kitsune on Player: DC 28 Caster Level Check: 59 (roll *1 crossed out with a 20 next to it* +39 Modifier) Result Success.*

This basically assures that per round no negative effects on my character will last long if they make it through my Athletics save.

Athletics Rank 2 - With the above explained this will be a lot shorter. For this check there's a -25 penalty to the check instead of -15. So just take of another 10 to all the calculations above. Which means my effective Athletic saves, which replace ALL saving throws, is 29. You might say: "Hey that's only like 6-7 points better than your actual saves buffed!" Well, we Haven't added back in the effective +10 from Mythic Athletics Skill Focus. We now have an effectively 39 saving throw.

Saving throws without Athletics defensive layer: 23ish Fort, 23ish Reflex, 24ish Will, 10% to save automatically, 0% auto failure chance.

Saving throws with Athletics defensive layer: 23ish Fort, 23ish Reflex, 24ish Will, 10% to save automatically, 0% auto failure chance. Secondary 39 effective backup Saving Throw, which can only be reduced by STR level drain, which may be countered by Athletics Trick 1. The trick dispels one neg condition every round as third defensive layer, but at a 49 effective modifier, not 39.

*Going to add this info to the build. I didn't actually post my saves*

Which leads to the second reason for doing this: We have loads of room for items to min/max DCs and other stats, without worrying about our saves/immunities to conditions.

Originally posted by Aebleskiver:

Oh another question, which spells would you use metamagic extend on?

Every single duration spell that allows extend, combined with Completely Normal Spell. There's no draw back. You don't gain or lose a spell slot level, all the spells/buffs get +1 DC checks, they last longer, and Sorcs take a round to cast anyways. Also note that all those Enduring buff spells throughout your spellbook, many being communal? They will now last 1 day and 15 hours duration using this metamagic abuse. The downside is having to go through your spellbook and metamagic everything.

[Aebleskiver]

I will say having no offensive spells other than cantrips is tough at level 4. Really having to rely on the small amount of scrolls sorcs can use

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Aebleskiver:

I will say having no offensive spells other than cantrips is tough at level 4. Really having to rely on the small amount of scrolls sorcs can use

For sure. I had this problem in Kingmaker with a similar build. You're really just a low level buffer/debuffer (mostly debuffer) with range touched cantrips (which work fine, especially Acid Splash in the beginning w/ Cultists).

Based off difficulty, you can use Daze as an offensive/defensive spell vs. Level 4 creatures or below, locking down one enemy (hopefully). In Kingmaker, I could use Daze even on unfair, but super super unreliable leading to save scumming early game (rough), but at least I got through the fights! :p Remember that "Kitsune Magic" is basically Spell focus: Enchant, so the Daze DC is boosted by 1 at least.

That said, just throwing out an Enfeeble + Grease + Glitter in many ways can go farther than focusing on offensive spells. The debuffs to the enemy stats make it harder for them to hit your party and easier for your party to hit them, thus a bigger damage multiplier for usually a longer period of time and less spell usage.

There is wiggle room and honestly, you probably don't need Shield at Level 3. You could
move it to level 7 (you're no tank anyways and just watch your positioning). Then change up the spells in between to something like this:

Level 1 on Creation: Mage Armour (for squishies), Grease (for long duration AoE that you can use for multiple encounters by pulling mobs into it.. in theory GL).
Level 2: Nil.
Level 3: Ray of Enfeeblement (Magic Missile or replace completely with another snowball source, for the ranged touch attack that can sneak attack later on).
Level 4: Glitterdust.
Level 5: Magic Missile (or Ray of Enfeeble if you didn't take it, or replace with Snowball as mentioned), Hideous Laughter.
Level 6: Stinking Cloud.
Level 7: Shield, Animal Aspect, Haste (or switch with Heroism taken at level 9, depends if another character has access to one or the other).
Level 8: Animate Dead.

Edit: Of course, remember to abuse extend, heighten and extend + heighten to make copies of lower level spells at all levels.

Another thing off subject: I'm debating still whether to switch around Perception Mythic Trick Rank 1 at Mythic Level 3, for Persuasion Mythic Trick Rank 1. I just don't know if Perception Rank 1 is all that important and having much earlier access to demoraizing enemies when they start combat with you, would likely help with any growing pains.

[Aebleskiver]

Grease has definitely been a saving grace but also a detriment when tank/melee party members fail to the save. I probably just need to change my mind set a bit. I'm not the nuker but the debuffer/buffer.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Aebleskiver:

Grease has definitely been a saving grace but also a detriment when tank/melee party members fail to the save. I probably just need to change my mind set a bit. I'm not the nuker but the debuffer/buffer.

Yep and then later you will be increasingly using more CC spells and summons when they don't work. Unlike a nuker, you're not trying to cast a lot of spells during a fight. Just what you need (which may only be one CC spell that disables everyone and can last multiple encounters). This build, like my Kingmaker one, is very spell efficient. By around level 3-4 you will already have a 3-5 minute Grease (normals + extended) that you can pull enemies into. Like in an MMO where you have a kill zone and the tank lures enemies to it.

What you will need to do I should mention is pick up very specific buffs that make you immuned to things like poison and difficult terrain.

- Freedom of Movement: From a divine caster/bard/alchemist or scrolls. This allows you to walk on all those nasty CC spells that make you prone or ensare you (like Grease, Web and Entangle. Including your own. You should cast this at least on your melee party members. Until then you have to really plan your grease placement and lure enemies into it while your tank stands on the edge of the effect.
- Delay Poison: From a divine caster/bard/alchemist or scrolls to make your party/melee martial characters immune to all your poison effects floating around and likely those frpm demons too.
- Life Bubble: We take this in the build since it gives us immunity to cloud effects. We will be using a lot of cloud effects and with Halluci Cloud, we need something other than poison immunity.
- I should mention that we take Animate Undead and Create Undead because they're immune to a lot of what cloud CCs dish out. So they can freely travel in the clouds and lock down enemies when our tank cannot or is somewhere else important.

In Pathfinder, like in a lot of DnD, true offensive power is a fully buffed party with CC just auto attack facerolling debuffed/disabled enemies without being hit. The nice thing about the spell selection for Trickster spellbook, Sorcerer, Greater Enduring spells and Magical Tails, is that you can take so many buffs and casts them an insane about of times per day, while only having to cast the suite of them every 1.5 days lol. This build covered like 70-80% of all optionable/required buffs for endgame.

[Mr.Hmm]

Hey sorry for kinda Necro but I am curious, would this build work as Azata instead of trickster?

I kinda wanna go Nine-Tailed Heir with Azata Mythic Path.

[Harlequin Spade]

Can anyone tell me the location of the equipment items? Most of the online sources aren't much help.