(SPOILERS) "The Other" are possibly the worst "important" antagonists in the game

[Orion Invictus]

What are they? Some kind of undead hive mind. Everything else is unknown.
Where did they come from? Not Golarion.
What do they want? To remain hidden. Everything else is unknown.
Why did they chop off heads despite wanting to remain hidden? Unknown.

There are no real answers, they're just a ball of unknowns. I don't like these sorts of things, when you set up questions and then don't answer them.

As for calling them "important", I didn't really know what else to call them. They're not the main antagonists, but they're not random goons either. I'm not sure if there's a proper word for that.

[Yannir]

I actually very much like it when there are mysteries that remain unsolved by design, as opposed to somebody just forgetting the whole thing. I hate it when absolutely everything is explained because often it makes the world feel shallow. From a writing perspective, the questions are more important than the answers. It leaves the reader wanting for more. Some people hate that but personally I love a delicious mystery that's not central to the main story.

In this case it's mostly a nod to those that know the Pathfinder setting. They don't exactly tell you where the Other comes from but those in the loop can probably guess that it comes from the Negative Energy Plane originally. When it shows up in the story, it's probably residing in a small demiplane of its own making only accessible through Daeran.

(Just skip the english lesson below if you don't care. You've been warned.)
On another note the Other is singular, not plural. It is a single entity that is being referred to. If you were referring to parts of its sum individually, then you could use plural. So it's: is possibly, not are possibly. For example: The swarm is heading west. In the example the word swarm is a similar to the Other. The rats are heading west. This example on the other hand refers to the parts of the whole.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Yannir:

I actually very much like it when there are mysteries that remain unsolved by design, as opposed to somebody just forgetting the whole thing. I hate it when absolutely everything is explained because often it makes the world feel shallow. From a writing perspective, the questions are more important than the answers. It leaves the reader wanting for more. Some people hate that but personally I love a delicious mystery that's not central to the main story.

In this case it's mostly a nod to those that know the Pathfinder setting. They don't exactly tell you where the Other comes from but those in the loop can probably guess that it comes from the Negative Energy Plane originally. When it shows up in the story, it's probably residing in a small demiplane of its own making only accessible through Daeran.

(Just skip the english lesson below if you don't care. You've been warned.)
On another note the Other is singular, not plural. It is a single entity that is being referred to. If you were referring to parts of its sum individually, then you could use plural. So it's: is possibly, not are possibly. For example: The swarm is heading west. In the example the word swarm is a similar to the Other. The rats are heading west. This example on the other hand refers to the parts of the whole.

Without the tabletop context, it just seems like the writers created a question with no answer (meaning, no answer exists because the writers didn't think of how everything fits together) - those are the ones I don't like at all. A question without an answer is meaningless, it adds nothing to the medium and only serves as bait.

Daeran refers to the Other using plural pronouns, so I just went with that. Given that he knows them more intimately than any other living being we speak with, it felt more appropriate to follow his lead on this.

[Yannir]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by Yannir:

I actually very much like it when there are mysteries that remain unsolved by design, as opposed to somebody just forgetting the whole thing. I hate it when absolutely everything is explained because often it makes the world feel shallow. From a writing perspective, the questions are more important than the answers. It leaves the reader wanting for more. Some people hate that but personally I love a delicious mystery that's not central to the main story.

In this case it's mostly a nod to those that know the Pathfinder setting. They don't exactly tell you where the Other comes from but those in the loop can probably guess that it comes from the Negative Energy Plane originally. When it shows up in the story, it's probably residing in a small demiplane of its own making only accessible through Daeran.

(Just skip the english lesson below if you don't care. You've been warned.)
On another note the Other is singular, not plural. It is a single entity that is being referred to. If you were referring to parts of its sum individually, then you could use plural. So it's: is possibly, not are possibly. For example: The swarm is heading west. In the example the word swarm is a similar to the Other. The rats are heading west. This example on the other hand refers to the parts of the whole.

Without the tabletop context, it just seems like the writers created a question with no answer (meaning, no answer exists because the writers didn't think of how everything fits together) - those are the ones I don't like at all. A question without an answer is meaningless, it adds nothing to the medium and only serves as bait.

Daeran refers to the Other using plural pronouns, so I just went with that. Given that he knows them more intimately than any other living being we speak with, it felt more appropriate to follow his lead on this.

Exactly. It is bait. An invitation to learn more and try to come up with the answer yourself.

Daerans perspective on the matter is rather subjective and personal. The Other is a swarm entity of some kind and Daeran likely can identify distinct individual personas within the collective. For him it is a "they" but from the outside looking in the Other is an "it". But this is getting a bit philosophical, so let's just leave it be.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Yannir:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Without the tabletop context, it just seems like the writers created a question with no answer (meaning, no answer exists because the writers didn't think of how everything fits together) - those are the ones I don't like at all. A question without an answer is meaningless, it adds nothing to the medium and only serves as bait.

Daeran refers to the Other using plural pronouns, so I just went with that. Given that he knows them more intimately than any other living being we speak with, it felt more appropriate to follow his lead on this.

Exactly. It is bait. An invitation to learn more and try to come up with the answer yourself.

Daerans perspective on the matter is rather subjective and personal. The Other is a swarm entity of some kind and Daeran likely can identify distinct individual personas within the collective. For him it is a "they" but from the outside looking in the Other is an "it". But this is getting a bit philosophical, so let's just leave it be.

Coming up with an answer is different from making stuff up that fits. The former requires the existence of an answer (and sufficient clues to piece everything together), the latter does not. I enjoy the former, not the latter.

[Yannir]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by Yannir:

Exactly. It is bait. An invitation to learn more and try to come up with the answer yourself.

Daerans perspective on the matter is rather subjective and personal. The Other is a swarm entity of some kind and Daeran likely can identify distinct individual personas within the collective. For him it is a "they" but from the outside looking in the Other is an "it". But this is getting a bit philosophical, so let's just leave it be.

Coming up with an answer is different from making stuff up that fits. The former requires the existence of an answer (and sufficient clues to piece everything together), the latter does not. I enjoy the former, not the latter.

Personally I enjoy both. If the latter is deliberate, and not laziness. It's impossible to tell the difference though.

It could be they were planning to make to make "the Other" into a Mythic Path at some point but decided that Lich was enough Undead for one game. Then just left Daerans part in but left out the MP stuff that actually explains what this thing is.

But this is obviously just me entertaining myself with the thought. I don't expect that's the reality.

[Steffan]

I also do not think everything should be explained. And most imortantly, Daeran's quest is not about the Other... it is about a lonely individual who has lost his family and is living on the edge and under constant supervision i.e. Daeran. As such, it is not really important what it is... other than the Other being a very unusual opponent.

[.O.]

Originally posted by steffan8:

I also do not think everything should be explained. And most imortantly, Daeran's quest is not about the Other... it is about a lonely individual who has lost his family and is living on the edge and under constant supervision i.e. Daeran. As such, it is not really important what it is... other than the Other being a very unusual opponent.

I agree with this. Also this game is meant to be set in a world at a point in time, it's not meant to be fully self contained. Some things are part of the world, but not part of the game and that is fine.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by .O.:

Originally posted by steffan8:

I also do not think everything should be explained. And most imortantly, Daeran's quest is not about the Other... it is about a lonely individual who has lost his family and is living on the edge and under constant supervision i.e. Daeran. As such, it is not really important what it is... other than the Other being a very unusual opponent.

I agree with this. Also this game is meant to be set in a world at a point in time, it's not meant to be fully self contained. Some things are part of the world, but not part of the game and that is fine.

That doesn't mean the Other aren't terrible antagonists, it just means there's a reason for them being that way.

[.O.]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by .O.:

I agree with this. Also this game is meant to be set in a world at a point in time, it's not meant to be fully self contained. Some things are part of the world, but not part of the game and that is fine.

That doesn't mean the Other aren't terrible antagonists, it just means there's a reason for them being that way.

but they are not actually supposed to be all that important. They represent one element of Daeran's story. They represent an unknown but powerful threat. It's not meant to be answered in this game.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by .O.:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

That doesn't mean the Other aren't terrible antagonists, it just means there's a reason for them being that way.

but they are not actually supposed to be all that important. They represent one element of Daeran's story. They represent an unknown but powerful threat. It's not meant to be answered in this game.

Which, again, just explains why they are the way they are, it doesn't make it better.

[CloudKira]

Above Balor level it was said.

So its at least a Nascent demon lord being with the undead subtype. Hardly surprising as only beings that are on that level or above can give power to Oracles.

Some kind of semi divine abomination.

[Vae Victis]

I liked how it was done for Dorn Il-Khan in Baldurs Gate. I mean its not exactly the same but very similar story, patron is giving power in exchange for blood, Dorn gets tired of being some lackey, the beings rival shows up, follow the original patron, side with a new evil, or kill them both. All choices have consequences. It didnt feel like it needed more explanation on some otherworldly evil, or why it wanted specific people dead, or people dead at all.