Areelu Vorlesh discussion

[Steel]

What do you guys think about her? I just finished a playthrough and, I didn't hate her, at all. She gives off an air of Dagoth Ur, not as charming or memeable but. Her motives and everything, I don't hate them. I don't agree with them, but she never is outright evil to me from my experiences, I know in the grand scheme of things her goal was incredibly selfish and caused the world-wound but everyone in the story hypes her up as evil incarnate, and I just couldn't feel that way about her.


I liked her so much that I ended up redeeming her as a gold dragon. She spent the end of her days watching the world-wound with me. I even vouched for her to Pharasma

What did you guys end up doing with her?

[Erebus]

Dryad původně napsal:

...Additionally, the ascension ending does not make the main character or Areelu gods, just demigods. Granted, demigods are still really powerful in setting, but they're still nowhere near the power that gods have...

I'll say one thing - in the ascension ending Pharasma does say that 'the combined powers of Areelu and Player Character are greater than hers'. However, that statement creates plotholes of such magnitude that it's a safe assumption that it's not true and non-canon.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

Dryad původně napsal:

...Additionally, the ascension ending does not make the main character or Areelu gods, just demigods. Granted, demigods are still really powerful in setting, but they're still nowhere near the power that gods have...

I'll say one thing - in the ascension ending Pharasma does say that 'the combined powers of Areelu and Player Character are greater than hers'. However, that statement creates plotholes of such magnitude that it's a safe assumption that it's not true and non-canon.

I'll assume it is canon because that was the way the game was written also there isn't a strict canon ending to this game or Kingmaker I'm of the opinion Owlcat is going with a lets say the events of the previous games happened BUT don't outright confirm the true ending of them.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Dryad původně napsal:

You do know that genocide is the killing of people from an ethnic group or nation, right? Arcane casters qualify as neither. Sorcerers being the exception; wizards, witches, arcanists, magi, bards and skald all learn magic by either rote or through the performing arts and can come from any nation or ethnic group. As for pretending the Sarkorians were innocent? I have no illusions about that, but would you consider say, the infants and children of the Sarkorians to be not innocent? Infants have no way of persecuting anyone because they can't even act or live without help and genocide includes them by definition.

As for the roleplaying part, you clearly do not understand that alignment is a result of all actions over time, and no one, not even paladins, monks or druids are expected to act wholly within alignment guidelines 100% of the time. Furthermore, roleplaying requires understanding of how a given setting works, which you lack. Given that even deities can die and phoenixes can't resurrect more than once a year (without outside help) and demigods can't be resurrected at all outside of their personal once a year resurrection (just like phoenixes!), death is not something that the vast majority of people would treat as a joke. Even the Lantern King, who enjoys jokes would treat his own death as such.

As for a deific arbiter, Pharasma and the Monad are the closest the setting has. Given that Pharasma's the oldest god and the Monad is almost literally an emotionless machine, both of whom have come to the conclusion that Areelu is in the wrong for her actions, even after accounting for the death of her child, there really isn't a way to justify ascending with her unless you really don't understand morality. Additionally, the ascension ending does not make the main character or Areelu gods, just demigods. Granted, demigods are still really powerful in setting, but they're still nowhere near the power that gods have, which is why gods are restricted as they are, since every time a god has acted on Golarion, it's gone over very badly for all involved. E.G. Desna avenging a priestess, Sarenrae and the Pit of Gormuz, etc.

As for Iomedae giving constant advice? She cannot give advice or appear directly unless the circumstances are right or a caster uses a spell to contact her specifically. She's bound by rules, some of which have been expounded upon in the game and others that are logical. Such as deities being neither omniscient or omnipotent. The gods of Golarion do not and cannot know everything that their worshippers or enemies are doing, they are more similar to the Greek gods in being imperfect and flawed than the Christian God, who is omnipotent and omniscient.

My character woudn't mind as he is way past that year threshold on a resurrection and thus hasn't died in a decent amount of time so dying wouldn't be something he'd be opposed to doing if need be, granted it would require him to not get involved but if the major problem is dealt with he can take a break for a year. Also don't rule out the characters ascending to full gods from demi-gods over time. Also as a rule I don't enforce the laws of gods I don't fall or enforce laws at all because that is not my job my job is to save the world and not enforce the laws of some foreign diety or government, I'm not a vigilante like the Hell Knights are (Yeah they can consider themselves law enforcers but unless they are acting with the express permission of the nations they are opperating in then they vigilantes by law, there is such a thing as borders and you can't just send law enforcers across borders of nations without the permission of the nation in question) and I'm a firm believer in bygones be bygones and not seeking to bring someone to justice or avenge things.
There is a reason I dislike Lann and Regill (Apart from Lann being a Monk which means he's automatically a no-no by being one) that being they are firm at enforcing laws regardless of whether they can be actually enforced, I personally will not enforce the laws of Mendev as my character isn't from the nation thus I am not obligated to enforce their laws I'm my own independent agent I'll take jobs but that does not mean I'll play by Mendev's playbook as the most it has been able to do is contain the demon threat and not stop it. Besides the secret ending is challenging to achieve and I'll take that my definition of beating the game, if I have to do somethings that other people will ♥♥♥♥♥ about go right ahead and ♥♥♥♥♥ about them their opinion won't effect my decisions
And again ♥♥♥♥ the alignment system it makes no sense half of the time and is contridictory as hell it also ignores logic.
Also Regill and the other Hell Knights lose credibiilty by being the agents of Cheliax a nation that I actively go out of my way to thwart the ambitions of whenever possible for a roleplaying reason that being since my character in WOTR is the same as the one in Kingmaker his nation and he himself are at odds with Cheliax and war is not to far in the future. So yeah my choices are my own.
Also how are the rules logical, they aren't remotely at least not from my perspective of logic which is to think, analyze and craft a plan based on reason and not emotions. Also I'm against following the advise of a diety that is younger then my character and assumes her way is the way of doing things even though it hasn't dealt with the problem.

[Erebus]

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

I'll say one thing - in the ascension ending Pharasma does say that 'the combined powers of Areelu and Player Character are greater than hers'. However, that statement creates plotholes of such magnitude that it's a safe assumption that it's not true and non-canon.

I'll assume it is canon because that was the way the game was written also there isn't a strict canon ending to this game or Kingmaker I'm of the opinion Owlcat is going with a lets say the events of the previous games happened BUT don't outright confirm the true ending of them.

Of course you'd assume that. You have that right - you'd be dead-ass wrong, but you do you, I suppose.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Then what is the official ending? I don't see there being one as the person who plays the game can play it any number of ways there is no set ending; the best way to handle a game with so many potential endings is to not outright confirm or deny any of them and leave that to player interpretation. The Storyteller never specifies how Kingmaker ended even though he does make references to it. I'm going to assume that this is how WOTR will be treated in the next game, leave it unconfirmed that way nobody becomes a purist of saying 'This is how you should play the game because canon' which really can drive a person nuts.
Besides I HATE it when sequals to games make the plot of the game before them meaningless which is why I don't consider Star Wars the Old Repubic as the sequal to KOTOR 1 or 2 because it basically makes player choices in the previous game meaningless. So yeah its best if Owlcat leaves the ending to player choice and not give it a canonical ending as it would lock people into a "This is how the game should be played" mindset and cause people to not make independent choices and make choices because devs say that its canon.

[Erebus]

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Then what is the official ending? I don't see there being one as the person who plays the game can play it any number of ways there is no set ending; the best way to handle a game with so many potential endings is to not outright confirm or deny any of them and leave that to player interpretation. The Storyteller never specifies how Kingmaker ended even though he does make references to it. I'm going to assume that this is how WOTR will be treated in the next game, leave it unconfirmed that way nobody becomes a purist of saying 'This is how you should play the game because canon' which really can drive a person nuts.
Besides I HATE it when sequals to games make the plot of the game before them meaningless which is why I don't consider Star Wars the Old Repubic as the sequal to KOTOR 1 or 2 because it basically makes player choices in the previous game meaningless. So yeah its best if Owlcat leaves the ending to player choice and not give it a canonical ending as it would lock people into a "This is how the game should be played" mindset and cause people to not make independent choices and make choices because devs say that its canon.

The official ending will be the one that doesn't alter the timeline much from the official tabletop lore. The Worldwound is closed, the only new god to rise is Nocticula the Redeemer Queen. Everything else can be left ambigious.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Then what is the official ending? I don't see there being one as the person who plays the game can play it any number of ways there is no set ending; the best way to handle a game with so many potential endings is to not outright confirm or deny any of them and leave that to player interpretation. The Storyteller never specifies how Kingmaker ended even though he does make references to it. I'm going to assume that this is how WOTR will be treated in the next game, leave it unconfirmed that way nobody becomes a purist of saying 'This is how you should play the game because canon' which really can drive a person nuts.
Besides I HATE it when sequals to games make the plot of the game before them meaningless which is why I don't consider Star Wars the Old Repubic as the sequal to KOTOR 1 or 2 because it basically makes player choices in the previous game meaningless. So yeah its best if Owlcat leaves the ending to player choice and not give it a canonical ending as it would lock people into a "This is how the game should be played" mindset and cause people to not make independent choices and make choices because devs say that its canon.

The official ending will be the one that doesn't alter the timeline much from the official tabletop lore. The Worldwound is closed, the only new god to rise is Nocticula the Redeemer Queen. Everything else can be left ambigious.

Which could be any ending bar Swarm or Trickster: hell I don't think really anything would stop Nocticula from ascending short of those two options which mean death for her hell she has the means to ascend and the knowledge of how to do so at any time and due to her being a demon her nature would demand power over pride.
Also I'd note any ending will be dependent on what path Owlcat decides to make into a game next, odds are they could pick a path set before WOTR timeline wise and thus an official ending could be years from being confirmed.
Personally though the ending will always be player's choice as far as I'm concerned mainly to allow consistancy for myself. Best option though for Owlcat is to just don't mention the events of WOTR in the next game beyond an easter egg like they did with Kingmaker and don't confirm much beyond say that Deskari was defeated and the Fifth Crusade was a success that is vague enough to allow for player intreptation, als if I where them I wouldn't even bother with mentioning Nocticula as I'm not even sure if there is a path related to her Redeemer Queen arc to make a game mechanic or game out of at least not in the first edition paths maybe second edition will have something but if we are going to have the games follow First Edition paths then keep things a bit simple.

[Dryad]

Things in PF2e and late PF1e that are true:
1. Deskari is dead
2. Baphomet is alive
3. The Worldwound is closed
4. Nocticula is the Redeemer Queen

Starting from the last one, this blocks off Ascension, Trickster and Swarm-That-Walks since Nocticula can't ascend in those cases. The 3rd item also means Gold Dragon Areelu redemption ending is not correct for 2e (as well as any others that leave the Worldwound open for some reason). Whereas the first two combined block off all endings other than the Angel since afaik only Angel can kill Deskari while leaving Baphomet alive, assuming one completes the final Angel mythic quest that occurs after sacrificing Areelu to close the Worldwound.

Thus, based on the above conclusions drawn from game data and tabletop lore, we can conclude that the Angel ending is the true ending when you do the last steps correctly.

Edit: there is an adventure in 1e in which a player can have their character worship the Redeemer Queen and affect parts of the adventure. However, Owlcat would have to make videogames for 4 different adventure paths AND make them have importable saves as you go forward in the timeline from one adventure to the next for this to become relevant.

[Dryad]

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Also don't rule out the characters ascending to full gods from demi-gods over time. Also as a rule I don't enforce the laws of gods I don't fall or enforce laws at all because that is not my job my job is to save the world and not enforce the laws of some foreign diety or government, I'm not a vigilante like the Hell Knights are (Yeah they can consider themselves law enforcers but unless they are acting with the express permission of the nations they are opperating in then they vigilantes by law, there is such a thing as borders and you can't just send law enforcers across borders of nations without the permission of the nation in question) and I'm a firm believer in bygones be bygones and not seeking to bring someone to justice or avenge things.

Also Regill and the other Hell Knights lose credibiilty by being the agents of Cheliax a nation that I actively go out of my way to thwart the ambitions of whenever possible for a roleplaying reason that being since my character in WOTR is the same as the one in Kingmaker his nation and he himself are at odds with Cheliax and war is not to far in the future. So yeah my choices are my own.
Also how are the rules logical, they aren't remotely at least not from my perspective of logic which is to think, analyze and craft a plan based on reason and not emotions. Also I'm against following the advise of a diety that is younger then my character and assumes her way is the way of doing things even though it hasn't dealt with the problem.

Vigilantes enforce the laws of a nation without that nation's permission. Hell knights don't care about the laws of nations ergo, they are not vigilantes. Hell knights enforce the Measure of the Order and the Chain, making them a international military group on Golarion. Also, the Order of the Godclaw that Regill is part of? Not only is the Order of the Godclaw not a thrall to Cheliax, there is even an adventure path that involves the Order of the Godclaw starting a rebellion against Cheliax for religious reasons.

As for logic in the deific rules that you can't understand? How do you not understand that no one can see, hear or know everything, even if they're a deity? Imperfect information is a thing that everyone deals with and it's not like Golarion is the only world in Pathfinder lore nor is there only one spot that any given deity pays attention to on Golarion. Just for Iomedae alone, there's the Worldwound, Cheliax, Geb, Lastwall, Absalom and Varisia. That's not even getting into the places I can't remember that her church (and thus her) have to pay attention to.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Dryad původně napsal:

Things in PF2e and late PF1e that are true:
1. Deskari is dead
2. Baphomet is alive
3. The Worldwound is closed
4. Nocticula is the Redeemer Queen

Starting from the last one, this blocks off Ascension, Trickster and Swarm-That-Walks since Nocticula can't ascend in those cases. The 3rd item also means Gold Dragon Areelu redemption ending is not correct for 2e (as well as any others that leave the Worldwound open for some reason). Whereas the first two combined block off all endings other than the Angel since afaik only Angel can kill Deskari while leaving Baphomet alive, assuming one completes the final Angel mythic quest that occurs after sacrificing Areelu to close the Worldwound.

Thus, based on the above conclusions drawn from game data and tabletop lore, we can conclude that the Angel ending is the true ending when you do the last steps correctly.

Edit: there is an adventure in 1e in which a player can have their character worship the Redeemer Queen and affect parts of the adventure. However, Owlcat would have to make videogames for 4 different adventure paths AND make them have importable saves as you go forward in the timeline from one adventure to the next for this to become relevant.

Ascension ending isn't ruled out by the sheer fact that Nocticula rules a domain made up of what she needs to ascend. Just because someone beat her to the punch does not mean she'd be incapable to ascending on her own, in fact the reasons in universe were never specific for ascending. Also for the record I'll say Ascension is the true ending in my eyes and you won't convince me otherwise.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Dryad původně napsal:

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Also don't rule out the characters ascending to full gods from demi-gods over time. Also as a rule I don't enforce the laws of gods I don't fall or enforce laws at all because that is not my job my job is to save the world and not enforce the laws of some foreign diety or government, I'm not a vigilante like the Hell Knights are (Yeah they can consider themselves law enforcers but unless they are acting with the express permission of the nations they are opperating in then they vigilantes by law, there is such a thing as borders and you can't just send law enforcers across borders of nations without the permission of the nation in question) and I'm a firm believer in bygones be bygones and not seeking to bring someone to justice or avenge things.

Also Regill and the other Hell Knights lose credibiilty by being the agents of Cheliax a nation that I actively go out of my way to thwart the ambitions of whenever possible for a roleplaying reason that being since my character in WOTR is the same as the one in Kingmaker his nation and he himself are at odds with Cheliax and war is not to far in the future. So yeah my choices are my own.
Also how are the rules logical, they aren't remotely at least not from my perspective of logic which is to think, analyze and craft a plan based on reason and not emotions. Also I'm against following the advise of a diety that is younger then my character and assumes her way is the way of doing things even though it hasn't dealt with the problem.

Vigilantes enforce the laws of a nation without that nation's permission. Hell knights don't care about the laws of nations ergo, they are not vigilantes. Hell knights enforce the Measure of the Order and the Chain, making them a international military group on Golarion. Also, the Order of the Godclaw that Regill is part of? Not only is the Order of the Godclaw not a thrall to Cheliax, there is even an adventure path that involves the Order of the Godclaw starting a rebellion against Cheliax for religious reasons.

As for logic in the deific rules that you can't understand? How do you not understand that no one can see, hear or know everything, even if they're a deity? Imperfect information is a thing that everyone deals with and it's not like Golarion is the only world in Pathfinder lore nor is there only one spot that any given deity pays attention to on Golarion. Just for Iomedae alone, there's the Worldwound, Cheliax, Geb, Lastwall, Absalom and Varisia. That's not even getting into the places I can't remember that her church (and thus her) have to pay attention to.

Since when is going around killing someone for breaking a law somewhere else in a neutral ground not a crime. I'm sorry but if you are NOT the government of the nation that accuses you of the crime and you are going around rounding up people without the express permission of the nation state you are violating the laws of a sovereign nation state. Anyway my experience with Hell Knights is they tend up having to die because they go out of their way to make themselves my enemies by disagreement with my methods. Also if you don't care about the laws of a nation then you are a criminal by the laws of said nation and the local authorities have grounds to toss your ass in prison or if you attack them kill you. Hell Knights have awesome armor but they are not the type of people I'd want as allies because they're liable to think their own codes overrule my decisions and try to make things worse. Anyway my thoughts on the group is they look cool but are foul beneath their looks. Personally not the type of people I'd want as allies I'd trust Hedge Knights over them because at least their loyalty can be bought and if you don't have a shortage of money and can outbid any opposition they'll stay loyal to you for as long as you need them to.
As for the Gods well then Golarion needs its own dedicated dieties that only has the job of overseeing and protecting it, that don't have any other worlds to worry about and by proxy are free to focus on Golarion, this is the reason I consider the Ascension ending the best ending because it allows you to say your character is now Golarion's dedicated protecter, you may not be a full god yet but you are more then capable of giving aid where it is needed most.

[Dryad]

jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi původně napsal:

Dryad původně napsal:

Things in PF2e and late PF1e that are true:
1. Deskari is dead
2. Baphomet is alive
3. The Worldwound is closed
4. Nocticula is the Redeemer Queen

Starting from the last one, this blocks off Ascension, Trickster and Swarm-That-Walks since Nocticula can't ascend in those cases. The 3rd item also means Gold Dragon Areelu redemption ending is not correct for 2e (as well as any others that leave the Worldwound open for some reason). Whereas the first two combined block off all endings other than the Angel since afaik only Angel can kill Deskari while leaving Baphomet alive, assuming one completes the final Angel mythic quest that occurs after sacrificing Areelu to close the Worldwound.

Thus, based on the above conclusions drawn from game data and tabletop lore, we can conclude that the Angel ending is the true ending when you do the last steps correctly.

Edit: there is an adventure in 1e in which a player can have their character worship the Redeemer Queen and affect parts of the adventure. However, Owlcat would have to make videogames for 4 different adventure paths AND make them have importable saves as you go forward in the timeline from one adventure to the next for this to become relevant.

Ascension ending isn't ruled out by the sheer fact that Nocticula rules a domain made up of what she needs to ascend. Just because someone beat her to the punch does not mean she'd be incapable to ascending on her own, in fact the reasons in universe were never specific for ascending. Also for the record I'll say Ascension is the true ending in my eyes and you won't convince me otherwise.

You're free to disagree. I can't stop you however, the logic of "my ending is the only true ending" only goes so far when canon ending has been written up and directly makes references to things being true that make your ending impossible. Specifically, in this case, Baphomet being alive for both the remainder of PF1e and at the beginning of PF2e.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise, I'm just putting this out for people to see and realize that no setting material put out in the future will support the Ascension ending, but will, in fact, contradict it, if set after WotR.

That is the extent to which I will expound on this topic in this thread, since we've gotten severely off-topic at this point.

[CloudKira]

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

Dryad původně napsal:

...Additionally, the ascension ending does not make the main character or Areelu gods, just demigods. Granted, demigods are still really powerful in setting, but they're still nowhere near the power that gods have...

I'll say one thing - in the ascension ending Pharasma does say that 'the combined powers of Areelu and Player Character are greater than hers'. However, that statement creates plotholes of such magnitude that it's a safe assumption that it's not true and non-canon.

Its possible that by the time the Player Character become THAT strong a LOT of time has passed since Ascension. Its not like they had to visit Pharasma right away.

That said...it possible that due to the strange/unprocedented method to earn godhood the increase in power after becoming a demi god skyrocketed with the Player Character and Areelu growing in power super fast. Far faster than any of the previous ascended (like Iomedae). I recall James Jacobs said somewhere that Iomedae, Caydan and Norgorber did not become full fledged gods after the trial of Starstone. Instead the became demi gods and only reach full god status over time. Like after a thousand years or so. It was even slower with Aroden who never did go through the Test of the Starstone (despite him being who raised the Starstone in the first place) which combined with his meddling in Golarion affairs made his transition to full god REALLY slow.

Its also likely that the Player character is far above Areelu in terms of power even post Ascension. In the Inevitable Excess DLC Valmallos says that the Commander's mythic power exceeded Areelu's Vorlesh and during the Ascension ending Areelu like the rest of the companions only receives a lesser level of power than the Commander which is compared to Heralds of demi gods (while the Commander gets full demi god power). Granted Areelu was stated several times to be demon lord level before said Ascension so with said additional boost she still likely greatly exceeds any ascended companion nevertheless. On her own she gets utterly stomped by Pharasma sans aid of the Player character...

[Erebus]

CloudKira původně napsal:

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

I'll say one thing - in the ascension ending Pharasma does say that 'the combined powers of Areelu and Player Character are greater than hers'. However, that statement creates plotholes of such magnitude that it's a safe assumption that it's not true and non-canon.

Its possible that by the time the Player Character become THAT strong a LOT of time has passed since Ascension. Its not like they had to visit Pharasma right away.

That said...it possible that due to the strange/unprocedented method to earn godhood the increase in power after becoming a demi god skyrocketed with the Player Character and Areelu growing in power super fast. Far faster than any of the previous ascended (like Iomedae). I recall James Jacobs said somewhere that Iomedae, Caydan and Norgorber did not become full fledged gods after the trial of Starstone. Instead the became demi gods and only reach full god status over time. Like after a thousand years or so. It was even slower with Aroden who never did go through the Test of the Starstone (despite him being who raised the Starstone in the first place) which combined with his meddling in Golarion affairs made his transition to full god REALLY slow.

Its also likely that the Player character is far above Areelu in terms of power even post Ascension. In the Inevitable Excess DLC Valmallos says that the Commander's mythic power exceeded Areelu's Vorlesh and during the Ascension ending Areelu like the rest of the companions only receives a lesser level of power than the Commander which is compared to Heralds of demi gods (while the Commander gets full demi god power). Granted Areelu was stated several times to be demon lord level before said Ascension so with said additional boost she still likely greatly exceeds any ascended companion nevertheless. On her own she gets utterly stomped by Pharasma sans aid of the Player character...

That's why I don't like Ascension ending - too much speculation needed to make it plausable. That and you have to side with Areelu, which I just refuse to do.

[CloudKira]

Hardcore Floor původně napsal:

CloudKira původně napsal:

Its possible that by the time the Player Character become THAT strong a LOT of time has passed since Ascension. Its not like they had to visit Pharasma right away.

That said...it possible that due to the strange/unprocedented method to earn godhood the increase in power after becoming a demi god skyrocketed with the Player Character and Areelu growing in power super fast. Far faster than any of the previous ascended (like Iomedae). I recall James Jacobs said somewhere that Iomedae, Caydan and Norgorber did not become full fledged gods after the trial of Starstone. Instead the became demi gods and only reach full god status over time. Like after a thousand years or so. It was even slower with Aroden who never did go through the Test of the Starstone (despite him being who raised the Starstone in the first place) which combined with his meddling in Golarion affairs made his transition to full god REALLY slow.

Its also likely that the Player character is far above Areelu in terms of power even post Ascension. In the Inevitable Excess DLC Valmallos says that the Commander's mythic power exceeded Areelu's Vorlesh and during the Ascension ending Areelu like the rest of the companions only receives a lesser level of power than the Commander which is compared to Heralds of demi gods (while the Commander gets full demi god power). Granted Areelu was stated several times to be demon lord level before said Ascension so with said additional boost she still likely greatly exceeds any ascended companion nevertheless. On her own she gets utterly stomped by Pharasma sans aid of the Player character...

That's why I don't like Ascension ending - too much speculation needed to make it plausable. That and you have to side with Areelu, which I just refuse to do.

Well...there are no rules in Pathfinder regarding ascension to demi godhood or godhood. Every case is up to the DM and is rather unique. Irori and Nethys ascended to godhood by reaching the absolute peak of their profession, Iomedae/Caydan/Norgorber did so via the Test of Starstone, Irori's newphew did so by writing a work so perfect/profound that it made him ascend, Urgathoa became a goddess by being the first being to become an undead after escaping Pharasma's Boneyard, etc.

Nothing in Pathfinder lore states or hints about it being impossible for someone to ascend and become THAT strong through the means used by the Commander and Areelu. Its a whole new method and involves some planar level stuff. One could argue that the Commander becomes an avatar of the Abyss itself shaped by his own will.

And regarding it being wrong to side with Areelu I see no issues with a Trickster (Godhood? Why not lol) or an evil Mythic character (more unlimited powaaa? I approve!). An angel, gold dragon, azata or aeon probably wouldn't make such a power grab...in character. Though azata and aeon CAN fall to devil mythic path so...no one is incorruptible lol.

Besides a good mythic path character can always use all that power for the cause of good. And possibly redeeming Areelu in the process (she states that she realized that what matters the most is being with the one most dear to you) even sans gold dragon. The threat of Deskari and Baphomet is also no more plus I got the slides for Nocti contemplating a change of heart which seems to lead to her potential redemption.