Eternal night Helmet

[Space Cowboy]

"This helmet grants its wearer DR 10/cold iron and good."

That's not a proper sentence and everything after DR 10 (damage reduction of 10) doesn't make any sense to me. Could someone translate please?

[FunkyMonkey]

DR 10 / cold iron and good means it reduces 10 damage from weapons attacks *except* cold iron and good weapons.

There are also thresholds for weapons to be considered "cold iron" and "good" based on their enchantment. I *think* it's something like +2 or +3 weapons are always considered to be cold iron in terms of damage reduction and +4 or +5 always ignore the alignment based DR (they always do full damage).

Only DR that always applies is DR / -, like that from Stoneskin spell. That always applies.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

DR 10 / cold iron and good means it reduces 10 damage from weapons attacks *except* cold iron and good weapons.

There are also thresholds for weapons to be considered "cold iron" and "good" based on their enchantment. I *think* it's something like +2 or +3 weapons are always considered to be cold iron in terms of damage reduction and +4 or +5 always ignore the alignment based DR (they always do full damage).

Only DR that always applies is DR / -, like that from Stoneskin spell. That always applies.

Okay thanks! Is "/" always supposed to mean "except"?

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

DR 10 / cold iron and good means it reduces 10 damage from weapons attacks *except* cold iron and good weapons.

There are also thresholds for weapons to be considered "cold iron" and "good" based on their enchantment. I *think* it's something like +2 or +3 weapons are always considered to be cold iron in terms of damage reduction and +4 or +5 always ignore the alignment based DR (they always do full damage).

Only DR that always applies is DR / -, like that from Stoneskin spell. That always applies.

Okay thanks! Is "/" always supposed to mean "except"?

In how they display DR, yes.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Okay thanks! Is "/" always supposed to mean "except"?

In how they display DR, yes.

I don't know if they still patch the game but I wished they just put in the word "except" in it and "weapons" at the end. As a new player I don't think that there's a way to figure out what that means other than asking here. I tried to google it but I couldn't find any information about what this is supposed to mean.

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

As a new player I don't think that there's a way to figure out what that means other than asking here.

It's explained in a tutorial which should pop up the first time that DR reduces damage an enemy takes from one of your characters (such as when you fight the dretches in the shield maze).

[Drake]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

In how they display DR, yes.

I don't know if they still patch the game but I wished they just put in the word "except" in it and "weapons" at the end. As a new player I don't think that there's a way to figure out what that means other than asking here. I tried to google it but I couldn't find any information about what this is supposed to mean.

This is not about the game, this is pathfidner and d&d standard wording. No sense in changing it since that's how it's written in the books.

You just need to learn it. that's the same as learning what 1d20+5 means.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by Drake:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

I don't know if they still patch the game but I wished they just put in the word "except" in it and "weapons" at the end. As a new player I don't think that there's a way to figure out what that means other than asking here. I tried to google it but I couldn't find any information about what this is supposed to mean.

This is not about the game, this is pathfidner and d&d standard wording. No sense in changing it since that's how it's written in the books.

You just need to learn it. that's the same as learning what 1d20+5 means.

Huh, odd. Not a huge Pen & Paper guy anyway - I just enjoy cRPGs and videogames in general.
My P&P experience is limited to Warhammer Fantasy (long time ago) and was always story focussed, never system focussed.
Tbh, seeing how complicated everything is I wonder how people are able to play this via Pen & Paper at all. Must take ages to do anything.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

DR 10 / cold iron and good means it reduces 10 damage from weapons attacks *except* cold iron and good weapons.

There are also thresholds for weapons to be considered "cold iron" and "good" based on their enchantment. I *think* it's something like +2 or +3 weapons are always considered to be cold iron in terms of damage reduction and +4 or +5 always ignore the alignment based DR (they always do full damage).

Only DR that always applies is DR / -, like that from Stoneskin spell. That always applies.

Okay thanks! Is "/" always supposed to mean "except"?

It means that weapons that are made of Cold Iron, or that have magic alignment to Good, will bypass that damage resistance.

Demons tend to use magical +1 weapons and some Cold Iron, but the CI ones are rare and only for low level demons. Very few creatures have Good alignment attacks or weapons.

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Originally posted by Drake:

This is not about the game, this is pathfidner and d&d standard wording. No sense in changing it since that's how it's written in the books.

You just need to learn it. that's the same as learning what 1d20+5 means.

Huh, odd. Not a huge Pen & Paper guy anyway - I just enjoy cRPGs and videogames in general.
My P&P experience is limited to Warhammer Fantasy (long time ago) and was always story focussed, never system focussed.
Tbh, seeing how complicated everything is I wonder how people are able to play this via Pen & Paper at all. Must take ages to do anything.

We learned the rules and sometimes it does take time but that is mostly when you have a bunch of unexpected bonuses penalties modifying your results. Or when you are dealing with a player that summons a bunch of monsters and is trying to figure out what he wants to do. As a GM I have a mental 1 minute shot clock going, take longer then that to declare what you are going to do and I start pushing. Dither too much and you loose your turn.

Another poster mentioned this but didn't list out the modifiers. To bypass DR the weapon must have the following bonus

Cold Iron/Sliver = +3
Adamantine =+4
Aligned (Good/Evil/Chaotic/Lawful) =+5

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

Huh, odd. Not a huge Pen & Paper guy anyway - I just enjoy cRPGs and videogames in general.
My P&P experience is limited to Warhammer Fantasy (long time ago) and was always story focussed, never system focussed.
Tbh, seeing how complicated everything is I wonder how people are able to play this via Pen & Paper at all. Must take ages to do anything.

We learned the rules and sometimes it does take time but that is mostly when you have a bunch of unexpected bonuses penalties modifying your results. Or when you are dealing with a player that summons a bunch of monsters and is trying to figure out what he wants to do. As a GM I have a mental 1 minute shot clock going, take longer then that to declare what you are going to do and I start pushing. Dither too much and you loose your turn.

Another poster mentioned this but didn't list out the modifiers. To bypass DR the weapon must have the following bonus

Cold Iron/Sliver = +3
Adamantine =+4
Aligned (Good/Evil/Chaotic/Lawful) =+5

Thanks! I couldn't remember them exactly so I just mentioned them in passing.

[kotor_fan]

Originally posted by Drake:

Originally posted by Space Cowboy:

I don't know if they still patch the game but I wished they just put in the word "except" in it and "weapons" at the end. As a new player I don't think that there's a way to figure out what that means other than asking here. I tried to google it but I couldn't find any information about what this is supposed to mean.

This is not about the game, this is pathfidner and d&d standard wording. No sense in changing it since that's how it's written in the books.

You just need to learn it. that's the same as learning what 1d20+5 means.

Excuse me while I disagree and go on a bit of related rant.
Please keep in mind I do know what things are (plenty of time ingame), so complaint is just for sake of complaining.

Owlcat REALLY needs to spend a bit of time on unifying and explaining simple ♥♥♥♥.

Why do enemies have 30 different characteristics when you check their description but 15 of them are empty?
Example: Undead -> What the ♥♥♥♥ does that mean.
Oh wait, there's another "Undead creature" (or some such) -> This one has full explanation.
Dozens of examples like that.

Example as above. DR 10/Cold Iron and good....DR10 against cold iron and good? Or DR10 except against cold iron and good? Or DR10 whatever cold iron and good are efficient against (such as evil for example).
It's confusing for new players for absolutely no reason.
Adding EXCEPT does nothing except help new players.

Hell, it's so hard to recommend Pathfinder games to people since they come in, start game, encounter first few mobs and wonder what the ♥♥♥♥ happened.
Bonus if their first pathfinder is Kingmaker, so they run into swarm or stat draining spiders AT LEVEL ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2! (sorry for that last part, that was just my PTSD kicking in)

There's a reason why BG3 sold untold millions (besides production value), and that's that it simplified and explained ♥♥♥♥. Any idiot (and this is NOT meant in any insulting way to BG3 players, I welcome any newcomers to greatness that are CRPGs) can pick it up and know what they're doing because stuff is explained.

You need a damn book to understand half the stuff in Pathfinder.

Here's a challenge: Go find Nalfeshnee.
Go lose STR points.
Now tell me why you lost it by finding why it happened in demon description tab.
Oh look, there's Unholy Aura. What does it do? Who knows, there's no description to it.
You better know what it does, or you'll be scratching your head wondering what and why.

Got a better one (since not sure if above example got "fixed"): What's demon plague?
Hover over description and tell me.
You can see what the save is, how often it kicks in and what it does. But how do you cure it? Is it a curse? Is it a disease? Is it a poison?

So my massive rant (sorry for using your post to start it) is that NO, it's not good enough that player just needs to learn it. It absolutely SHOULD be in description.
No guesswork, no learning by trial and error. Explain ♥♥♥♥.

Perhaps they will in Pathfinder 3. RT was already significantly improved when it comes to explaining mechanics. Much simpler as well, but different story altogether.

/rant

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by kotor_fan:

Originally posted by Drake:

This is not about the game, this is pathfidner and d&d standard wording. No sense in changing it since that's how it's written in the books.

You just need to learn it. that's the same as learning what 1d20+5 means.

Excuse me while I disagree and go on a bit of related rant.
Please keep in mind I do know what things are (plenty of time ingame), so complaint is just for sake of complaining.

Owlcat REALLY needs to spend a bit of time on unifying and explaining simple ♥♥♥♥.

Why do enemies have 30 different characteristics when you check their description but 15 of them are empty?
Example: Undead -> What the ♥♥♥♥ does that mean.
Oh wait, there's another "Undead creature" (or some such) -> This one has full explanation.
Dozens of examples like that.

Example as above. DR 10/Cold Iron and good....DR10 against cold iron and good? Or DR10 except against cold iron and good? Or DR10 whatever cold iron and good are efficient against (such as evil for example).
It's confusing for new players for absolutely no reason.
Adding EXCEPT does nothing except help new players.

Hell, it's so hard to recommend Pathfinder games to people since they come in, start game, encounter first few mobs and wonder what the ♥♥♥♥ happened.
Bonus if their first pathfinder is Kingmaker, so they run into swarm or stat draining spiders AT LEVEL ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2! (sorry for that last part, that was just my PTSD kicking in)

There's a reason why BG3 sold untold millions (besides production value), and that's that it simplified and explained ♥♥♥♥. Any idiot (and this is NOT meant in any insulting way to BG3 players, I welcome any newcomers to greatness that are CRPGs) can pick it up and know what they're doing because stuff is explained.

You need a damn book to understand half the stuff in Pathfinder.

Here's a challenge: Go find Nalfeshnee.
Go lose STR points.
Now tell me why you lost it by finding why it happened in demon description tab.
Oh look, there's Unholy Aura. What does it do? Who knows, there's no description to it.
You better know what it does, or you'll be scratching your head wondering what and why.

Got a better one (since not sure if above example got "fixed"): What's demon plague?
Hover over description and tell me.
You can see what the save is, how often it kicks in and what it does. But how do you cure it? Is it a curse? Is it a disease? Is it a poison?

So my massive rant (sorry for using your post to start it) is that NO, it's not good enough that player just needs to learn it. It absolutely SHOULD be in description.
No guesswork, no learning by trial and error. Explain ♥♥♥♥.

Perhaps they will in Pathfinder 3. RT was already significantly improved when it comes to explaining mechanics. Much simpler as well, but different story altogether.

/rant

Nice to hear it from a veteran. Newbs like me often get shut down when they complain about accessibility or at least not get taken seriously as customers.
Although, I gotta say, that the community here has very little of that. A lot of helpful people giving a lot of their time and I appreciate that greatly.