Trickster improved crit line nerfed?

[GunStarX]

So it's not just that grave singer was nerfed, the trickster improved improved crit line was nerfed. All weapons only get +1 to crit range per feat from wherever they are after regular improved crit. A 15-20 becomes 13-20, 17-20 becomes 15-20, 19-20 becomes 17-20.

That's a range of 2 less for all weapons. Gotta love finding this stuff out halfway into act 3 on a build.

[Jiroa]

They overall changed how critical range improvement stack so i'm not suprized the trickster feats were affected by this.

There's quite a few things in the last patch that were not working as intended since the game lauched that they "fixed" whitout really talking about.

[tm0Lif3]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

So it's not just that grave singer was nerfed, the trickster improved improved crit line was nerfed. All weapons only get +1 to crit range per feat from wherever they are after regular improved crit. A 15-20 becomes 13-20, 17-20 becomes 15-20, 19-20 becomes 17-20.

That's a range of 2 less for all weapons. Gotta love finding this stuff out halfway into act 3 on a build.

owlcat seems to be heading towards the wrong direction. no one gonna tell them how and why obsidian fail with their pillars of eternity 2. what they did was just keep nerfing the game moment when community discover some powerful builds. this ain't any multiplayer moba games hence not even competitive. owlcat is stupid to implement these nerfs while there are still plethora of bugs that wasn't attended to.

[GunStarX]

I'm just really annoyed when there's changes like this that I don't recall seeing in the patch notes, like this is a big deal, the most popular trickster builds by far use perception 2 to start. I agree it's dumb to change the game balance while massive amounts of bugs remain. They create more bugs when they change mechanics

[Razer]

I think the feats are finally working as intended though. It should increase the threat range by 1 for each feat and it does just that. The main change was to the Improved critical feat I think. It doubles the threat range of the weapon, but only the base of the weapon, not including everything else stacked on top. So if the weapon has 20x3 it'll become 19x3, if you have the trickster feats it becomes 17x3.

They made it so the crit range no longer doubles everything. So the Gravesinger wasn't changed, and also the trickster feats weren't changed. Gravesinger passive now acts like a Keen property. Which is kind of weird, because it doesn't have that property.

[Deo]

Yeah that's Owlcat's current game direction for you. Nerf everything like it's a cybersport mmo/moba game - not a single player game.

Meanwhile, mounted character still holds nothing in his hands after attack with a weapon, 3 years in a row.

I don't mind nerfing - but fixing something won't hurt either.

[Zuloph]

Originally posted by Razer:

I think the feats are finally working as intended though. It should increase the threat range by 1 for each feat and it does just that. The main change was to the Improved critical feat I think. It doubles the threat range of the weapon, but only the base of the weapon, not including everything else stacked on top. So if the weapon has 20x3 it'll become 19x3, if you have the trickster feats it becomes 17x3.

They made it so the crit range no longer doubles everything. So the Gravesinger wasn't changed, and also the trickster feats weren't changed. Gravesinger passive now acts like a Keen property. Which is kind of weird, because it doesn't have that property.

Yeah that's pretty much it, moreso just making it work as intended. Improved Critical and Keen aren't supposed to stack with similar effects, The Improved Improved Critical feats are special that they add to the threat range but improved critical only doubles the base threat range of the weapon. You can still get 13-20 on 18-20 weapons which is solid.

A good example of this interaction from the tabletop too would be a Swashbuckler archetype called the Inspired Blade. Their capstone at level 20 increases the class, Rapier Weapon Mastery, increases the critical threat range of the rapier by 1 and says it stacks with the Rapier Training class feature (which gives you Improved Critical while wielding a rapier) to bring the total threat range of the weapon from 14-20, meaning that special threat range increase isn't getting doubled by improved critical. It's just getting added after the fact.

Your 19-20 weapons will still get to 15-20, Your 20 weapons will still get to 17-20, your 18-20 weapons will still get to 13-20. All still very good feats.

I'm all for them going back and fixing things to make them work as intended even if it is years later because they just may not have known how to fix it until now without bricking other things. I'm not a game dev, but apparently the unity engine is very finnicky with some stuff.

[IlluminaZero]

Hmm - As a Trickster Martial enthusiast I was a bit annoyed however this does seem to be a literal implementation of how the feat is described.

The wiki hasn't been updated since 2022 and it has the same text. IE:

"Choose one type of weapon that has the Improved Improved Critical feat. When using the weapon you selected, its critical threat range is increased by one. Again."

So while its annoying that my favorite build has been nerfed this is arguably just correcting an oversight.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Deo:

Yeah that's Owlcat's current game direction for you. Nerf everything like it's a cybersport mmo/moba game - not a single player game.

Meanwhile, mounted character still holds nothing in his hands after attack with a weapon, 3 years in a row.

I don't mind nerfing - but fixing something won't hurt either.

Honestly it's a good change. High threat range weapons have been meta for so long and now you can look at other options. Some people use Gravesinger or dual wield kukris in every playthrough. Talk about brain dead.

Plus I don't see this as a nerf, but rather a fix. Took them long enough though.

[pckirk]

the more in game bug reports (Alt+B) are sent in by players with the included game files, will help the QA team hunt down and find the cause of this bug.

[Razer]

Originally posted by pckirk:

the more in game bug reports (Alt+B) are sent in by players with the included game files, will help the QA team hunt down and find the cause of this bug.

This isn't a bug though

[pete3great]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

So it's not just that grave singer was nerfed

Not nerfed, bug fixed. It shouldn't have worked the way it did.

[GunStarX]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by GunStarX:

So it's not just that grave singer was nerfed

Not nerfed, bug fixed. It shouldn't have worked the way it did.

Sure, but after almost 3 years of it working a certain way it sure feels like a nerf

[Razer]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Originally posted by pete3great:

Not nerfed, bug fixed. It shouldn't have worked the way it did.

Sure, but after almost 3 years of it working a certain way it sure feels like a nerf

Yea they should have fixed this way earlier.

[Shahadem]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Deo:

Yeah that's Owlcat's current game direction for you. Nerf everything like it's a cybersport mmo/moba game - not a single player game.

Meanwhile, mounted character still holds nothing in his hands after attack with a weapon, 3 years in a row.

I don't mind nerfing - but fixing something won't hurt either.

Honestly it's a good change. High threat range weapons have been meta for so long and now you can look at other options. Some people use Gravesinger or dual wield kukris in every playthrough. Talk about brain dead.

Plus I don't see this as a nerf, but rather a fix. Took them long enough though.

How is removing something without addressing why people were not using other options a good change?

NOTHING was forcing people to use only Kukris or Gravesinger before but themselves. And if people wanted to do that they should be allowed to do so. This is a single player game, not a competitive multiplayer game that needs to keep changing the meta every two weeks to keep players from getting bored.

[Agent]

Counterpoint: An overpowered weapon or ability which completely outshines the alternatives under pretty much all circumstances is either a bug (which therefore should be fixed) or bad game design (which should be nerfed) whether its in a single player game or not. The excuse of "nobody forces you to use it" can be used to rationalize literally anything. There could be a button that instakills every enemy on screen with no saving throw every time you press it and no reason to alter that because, hey, it's a single player game and nobody is forcing you to press the I WIN button.