So, are spellcaster better at later levels or are they just... like that???

[Kheryn 🩸]

So i am at like my 7th character in 10 hours because i'm trying out the classes to see what i want to stick with and i really want to stick with this one because i like Vampires. I made a Dhampir Cruoromancer and the idea sounded fun but like... are all spellcasters this weak? I tried 3 spellcaster classes and they were all like this.

First off, i have to use bows/crossbows and none of these classes are good with those so my basic attack is ♥♥♥♥.

So you would think the spells balance it out right?

The ones that you can use repeatedly do 1 damage IF they hit at all.
So the ones that you can use only once a day will be strong right? Like magic missile, i can only use that once a day surely that means it's good RIGHT????!!!
WRONG!!
It does like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2 damage IF it hits at all. ALL OF THE SPELLS ARE LIKE THIS!!

I don't get it.

Seelah is a tank yet she does 22 damage crits and 12 damage normal hits meanwhile my immortal vampire lord descendant who casts magical spells can do 2 damage once a day???????

Does it get better at higher levels at all or am i supposed to go play the boring classes like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Barbarian???

[Kheryn 🩸]

Like i'm genuenly baffled, i got convinced to buy this game by the premise that you can do anything. So i came to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ necromancer vampire but i'm a weaker version of an archer.

I don't want to be super giga mega overpowered but at least being as good as other classes would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nice

[hilburnashua]

Magic missile cannot miss. What you are most likely encountering is something called spell resistance. Demons and many supernatural creatures have spell resistance. The way it works is when you try to effect a creature with spell resistance you roll a d20 and add your caster level. If you roll higher then the creatures spell resistance, it spell can effect the creature, if you roll lower, the spell has absolutely no effect on the creature. On top of that, many spells have a saving throw which the creature rolls (magic missile is not one of these spells) if the spell can effect them. Creatures can also be immune to some effects. You absolutely have to spend time looking at creatures to see what their AC, Touch AC, saving throws and resistances/immunites are if you want to be effective.

This is one of the reason why most people suggest taking spell penetration as your first feat if you want to be an offensive caster. If the spell doesn't get past an opponent's spell defense it is a completely wasted attack. If you are going to be a ray caster (spells that are delivered at range that require an ranged touch attack) you will need to invest in point blank shot and precise shot so you don't take a -4 on the attack roll since you will be shooting into melee often. This also applies to attacks with a crossbow/bow. And as a ray specialist you need to invest decently into Dexterity to increase your chances of hitting. If you are going to be casting spells with a saving throw you need to invest in the feats that boost the DC of those type of spells.

Btw, a Dhampir is someone that has some bloodline relationship with a vampire, not an immortal god-like being. You aren't D from Vampire Hunter D. Well build spell casters are very strong classes in Pathfinder but they take some knowledge of how to build them (especially in WotR where opponent difficulty level is greatly increased to balance Mythic abilities). But they are weaker at lower levels then melee/archer type characters. If you are not familiar with the Pathfinder system and WotR I recommend you do some searches for build guides that explain why they are doing certain things. I also recommend you play it at a very low difficulty level until you get your feet under you in this system, it is vastly complicated.

[Immortal Reaver]

At lvl 1 every class is similiary good at attacking with crossbow. It is 5% difference. DEX is measure how good you are with ranged attacks (at lvl 1, later you can get feats and martials get more BAB with levels so they scale better than casters). Note Rays (Ranged Touch) spells are also ranged attacks and so also use DEX+BAB for accuracy.

1st level spells deal low damage but, they scale damage with levels up to lvl 5 (1-6 damage per lvl, Magic Missle is exception and works differently). And so early game it is better to take non-damage spells. Like buffs and debuffs, Grease is very powerful early game because you can shut down whole encounter with it. Later when you get to lvl 5 or 6, at which you get level 3 spells, you start to get good blasting spells like Fireball to use in crucial situations. At cca lvl 12-14 (cca middle of game) you will be blasting spells left and right. Even sooner if you merge Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch with Lich Mythic or Cleric/Oracle/Shaman/Druid with Angel.

Also Orisons/Cantrips do not scale and are always bad. Daze and Flare is ok for Prolgue.

[Grish]

I'm a level 14 sorcerer, I'm pretty powerful... level nine spells that do 160+ damage and cannot be reduce by resistance. I have invisibility and mirror image to improve my hardiness... I do rely on my two tanks to keep things off me, even with my defences if a melee enemy gets close for more than a turn or so I expect to die, I wear cloth...

[Kheryn 🩸]

So i'm supposed to build a spellcaster for Dexterity? huh?
What next? I'm gonna have to invest in Intelligence on a Barbarian? Wear heavy armor as a rogue assasin?

[Kheryn 🩸]

Originally posted by Kheryn:

So i'm supposed to build a spellcaster for Dexterity? huh

That doesn't fit a mage at ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all what were the devs smoking????

♥♥♥♥ it i'm just gonna build a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archer since the game seems so hellbent on making me one

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by Kheryn:

Originally posted by Kheryn:

So i'm supposed to build a spellcaster for Dexterity? huh

That doesn't fit a mage at ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all what were the devs smoking????

♥♥♥♥ it i'm just gonna build a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archer since the game seems so hellbent on making me one

Dexterity is the basis for making ranged attacks. For wizards/mages, Int is the basis for the DC of spells. Wis for cleric/druids, Charisma for bards/sorcerer. It's based on the Pathfinder system, which again, is very complicated. If you don't want to learn how the system works, you really need to just play another game. This game was done for fans of Pathfinder.

[jonoliveira12]

This is the same as D&D. Martial classes have it easier at the beginner levels, Casters rule the upper levels.
Magic is just MUCH stronger than anything else, hence why it is Magic!

[Silamon]

You only need dex on a caster if you want to use ray attacks that need to do a ranged touch, and even then you don't need a lot of it since those ignore armor.

The game gives casters a crossbow as default equipment because at low levels theres not much difference in how good you are with a ranged weapon compared to other classes, and at low levels cantrips are largely garbage and you have few spell slots so you need something to do.

By level 7 your caster should be pretty decent at damaging targets as you already have 3rd or 4th level spells, by 20th level casters in this sort of game are incredibly powerful.

[Kheryn 🩸]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Originally posted by Kheryn:

That doesn't fit a mage at ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all what were the devs smoking????

♥♥♥♥ it i'm just gonna build a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archer since the game seems so hellbent on making me one

Dexterity is the basis for making ranged attacks. For wizards/mages, Int is the basis for the DC of spells. Wis for cleric/druids, Charisma for bards/sorcerer. It's based on the Pathfinder system, which again, is very complicated. If you don't want to learn how the system works, you really need to just play another game. This game was done for fans of Pathfinder.

I'm a fan of TTRPGs however when i want to make a mage in a TTRPGs i get a mage, not an Archer that casts a fairly useless spell once a day.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Kheryn:

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Dexterity is the basis for making ranged attacks. For wizards/mages, Int is the basis for the DC of spells. Wis for cleric/druids, Charisma for bards/sorcerer. It's based on the Pathfinder system, which again, is very complicated. If you don't want to learn how the system works, you really need to just play another game. This game was done for fans of Pathfinder.

I'm a fan of TTRPGs however when i want to make a mage in a TTRPGs i get a mage, not an Archer that casts a fairly useless spell once a day.

If your character is level 7 and this is all it is able to do you did something very horribly wrong when making it.

Care to show its build and what spells you are using?

For comparison, my 7th level evocation wizard is already capable of hitting over 100 damage with empowered lightning bolts.

[Kheryn 🩸]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Kheryn:

I'm a fan of TTRPGs however when i want to make a mage in a TTRPGs i get a mage, not an Archer that casts a fairly useless spell once a day.

If your character is level 7 and this is all it is able to do you did something very horribly wrong when making it.

Care to show its build and what spells you are using?

I didn't say i'm level 7 i said i'm at the start and i was asking if i should stick with it or choose a different class. I've been told to invest into dexterity which kills any and all fantasy of being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mage. "This is Kheryna the descendant of ancient vampires who can command the undead, she's not very inteligent or magical but she can shoot a crossbow ALMOST as good as an average guard and she is somewhat agile!"

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Kheryn:

Originally posted by Silamon:

If your character is level 7 and this is all it is able to do you did something very horribly wrong when making it.

Care to show its build and what spells you are using?

I didn't say i'm level 7 i said i'm at the start and i was asking if i should stick with it or choose a different class. I've been told to invest into dexterity which kills any and all fantasy of being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mage

Oh I see, sorry I saw "im at my 7th character" and misread it as 7th level somehow

So yeah at very low level casters are just weak. In act 1 there is an item called gloves of the neophyte that increases the damage of cantrips and 1st level spells by 1, it is pretty useful for quite a while. Especially for magic missile since thats +1 per missile.

You can spam the daze cantrip though, it doesn't do damage but at such low levels it has a pretty high success rate and stuns the target for a while. It's better than hitting 1 damage with a ray of frost or something.

[Kheryn 🩸]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Kheryn:

I didn't say i'm level 7 i said i'm at the start and i was asking if i should stick with it or choose a different class. I've been told to invest into dexterity which kills any and all fantasy of being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mage

Oh I see, sorry I saw "im at my 7th character" and misread it as 7th level somehow :theskull:

So yeah at very low level casters are just weak. In act 1 there is an item called gloves of the neophyte that increases the damage of cantrips and 1st level spells by 1, it is pretty useful for quite a while. Especially for magic missile since thats +1 per missile.

You can spam the daze cantrip though, it doesn't do damage but at such low levels it has a pretty high success rate and stuns the target for a while. It's better than hitting 1 damage with a ray of frost or something.

Sounds... bearable. Do i really have to invest into dexterity? Whose idea was it that mages need to spec into dexterity?

[knowthyself2]

Originally posted by Kheryn:

Originally posted by Kheryn:

So i'm supposed to build a spellcaster for Dexterity? huh

That doesn't fit a mage at ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all what were the devs smoking????

♥♥♥♥ it i'm just gonna build a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archer since the game seems so hellbent on making me one

You don't need to max out your dexterity, but putting a few extra points in it will help out a lot at lower levels for ray spells. Otherwise you have guaranteed hit and area of attack spells, those rely more on your class' primary stat
Keep in mind, this is Pathfinder. This is the continuation of Dungeons and Dragons 3.5
Millions and millions of people play this game table top. The mechanics all come together, trust me