Feint Feats explanation

[Belegc]

Hi All,

it seems that the new DLC brought a whole bunch of feats related to flat-footing. I am trying to understand how they work and would appreciate someone explaining them to me.

Feint - is it just taking 1 attack per round in order to try the bluff check? i.e you have 3 attacks per round, 1 will be for bluffing and the next one will be against flat-footed enemy?
I understand there are further feats to increase it for a full round or using two weapon fighting/ranged feinting and so on.

is the flat-footed status is also against the attacks of your allies? what I mean is - do we need only 1 dedicated "Feinter" in group to flat-foot an enemy for all? with uncanny dodge specifically saying that feint can still work on it, this seems to be very strong. do we need to have feint on all martials?

is Shatter Defenses obsolete now? as you have to hit the enemy first to flat foot it, there is no reason to use it anymore if you have a feinter.

is Diva Style refreshing each turn? is it usable by a skald? (tried with a court poet and insightful contemplation didn't seem to work with it).

Thank you in advance,

Belegc

[Deo]

Shatter Defenses is still good. Yes - first attack needs to hit full AC, but other attacks in round are hitting flat-footed AC. Most characters have 7-8 attacks per round.

Now, to Feint.

"The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Perception, the DC instead is equal to 10 + your opponent's Perception bonus, if higher."

So, with how bloated enemy stats and BAB are in this game - good luck feinting.

[Belegc]

Originally posted by Deo:

Shatter Defenses is still good. Yes - first attack needs to hit full AC, but other attacks in round are hitting flat-footed AC. Most characters have 7-8 attacks per round.

Now, to Feint.

"The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Perception, the DC instead is equal to 10 + your opponent's Perception bonus, if higher."

So, with how bloated enemy stats and BAB are in this game - good luck feinting.

Thank you, do you know if the enemy's flat-foot status is for all attackers or just for the feinter?

a dedicated feinter should have no problem succeeding the bluff check. Seelah court poet/1 kinetic knight (for CON instead of INT in combat feats) can reach at least 40 charisma - 15 base + 5 levelup + 6 enhancement (realistically) + 4 taco + 10 insightful contemplation + mythic inspiration (got fixed in the patch) and that's before stacking up some of the more complex bonuses.

3 persuasion from class skill
20 persuasion as base
4 from greater heroism

that's 42 persuasion before any more complex stacking or debuffing.

[Deo]

Originally posted by Belegc:

do you know if the enemy's flat-foot status is for all attackers or just for the feinter?

There are like 5-6 feint-based feats now, from ranged feint to slayer feint etc. Final Feint does that what you want.

So if you are playing Diva, while your Feint via Diva Style feat is free action - only for you the enemy is flat-footed. You need to have Final Feint, so whole party can benefit. And Undead bloodline on top, I think. To affect undeads with stuff.

That means 3 feat tax - Combat Expertise, Feint, Final Feint.

[Belegc]

Originally posted by Deo:

Originally posted by Belegc:

do you know if the enemy's flat-foot status is for all attackers or just for the feinter?

There are like 5-6 feint-based feats now, from ranged feint to slayer feint etc. Final Feint does that what you want.

So if you are playing Diva, while your Feint via Diva Style feat is free action - only for you the enemy is flat-footed. You need to have Final Feint, so whole party can benefit. And Undead bloodline on top, I think. To affect undeads with stuff.

That means 3 feat tax - Combat Expertise, Feint, Final Feint.

thank you very much, sounds very strong.

[Deo]

Originally posted by Belegc:

thank you very much, sounds very strong.

I just tested - you also need Ranged Feint feat, because default is Melee. You also can use only one per round as free action, then it becomes move action.

[Belegc]

I am thinking about a Seelah build:
2 Paladin/1Kinetic Knight/1 Drunken Master monk (fits.. its for the "free" feat and monk robe)/16 Inciter Skald or a Court-Poet.
going with Shield-Bashing/Two-weapon fighting/Feint (+Final Feint+Two-weapon Feint).

Hopefully I can fit all the feats. I think so because I am not taking weapon focus/dazzling display/shatter defenses.