Magic Deceiver Arcanist

[Calgacus]

Has anyone tried out the new Magic Deceiver yet? I know it says you can't add spells from other classes, but it doesn't know base wizard spells like magic missile and I can't learn new spells from scrolls either, as per the base arcanist spellbook mechanic. Is this intended? Does anyone have a spell list?

[Calgacus]

Also: Does anyone know if mythic spellbooks (Lich) can be added to this archetype? It's hard to tell from the description.

[Schlumpsha]

Afaik each sub-archetype of the Magic Deceiver has its own set of spells, unrelated to Arcanist. So chances are certain spells you look for are inside them as well. Don't think a handy spell list for all options are available yet.

Also no, Magic Deceiver's spell book maxes out at 6th level spells. Meaning no merging with Lich.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

maxes out at 6th level spells.

......

wat.

[Tobi89]

Tried out the arcanist deciever a bit and well it's kinda interesting. Basically you can combine any lvl 1-6 spells that you can scribe into the book and then combine them which pretty much makes it so that your able to cast 2 spells at once. However, it also seems to have some added effects when combined like for instance if your combining a spell that normally needs to hit before taking effect then it will no longer miss when combined. For instance combine fireball + disintergrate and you have an aoe spell that deals caster lvl x 6 fire dmg + (caster lvl x 2) x 6 divine dmg. Or maybe you wanna do reduce person + sleep at the same time in an aoe then go for it. I would probably say that early on in particular the deciever has the highest dmg burst for any casters and insant utility since they can easily get 2d6 dmg spells at lvl 1 the bummer is that you can't combine the lich spell book with this and the amount of spells seems to be very limited and many feats that say they add spells won't add anything so avoid those.

You do also lose everything that makes you an arcanist pretty much so the class is more of a sorcerer limited to a limited amount of spells only focused around debuffs and dmg but your able to combine those and make each spell function as two spells at once while also removing some of the weaknesses of spells like touch spells needing to hit and also making single target spells hit in a cone or area of effect or aoe/cone spells hit single targets and your seemingly able to do this whenever you want. There is also the added effect of dipping a bit into other classes like being a bit like an oracle, have an animal companion either for instance a wolf at lvl 1 or pick from most of the animal companions at lvl 20 or maybe pick the one that allows you to restore all of an ally's spells or abilities without resting. Not sure how well it combines with different mythic paths but it seems like the class is pretty much made with the trickster path in mind since it just seems able to do so many things at once while also leaning a bit into skill checks since that for instance helps them with spell penetration and it's just so over the place. But again it seems like a class that is pretty OP early on but that falls off later on in the way that for instance the DC of the spells are fairly low since their restricted to lvl 6 at most though it at the same time has the added benefit of being able to increase spells like heighten metamagic without the feat for lower lvl spells while also able to mix and match the spell schools a bit which enables you to need less spells school to focus in since as long as you combine two spells and at least one of them is evocation for insance then you can pick the spell to always be evocation thus getting the bonus DC.

Also from my testing all the decievers seem to have the same spell lists the only difference is the special effects, like being able to restore someone's usable spells + abilities that would otherwise require a long rest or having an animal companion from lvl 1.

Way longer post then intended.

[Takkik]

The deciever concept is in the same vein as the trickster. I think the archetype suffer from Owlcat spell programming: they needed to redo the spells, create unique new spells for each combinaison ? Every time they create new spell list, it feel a mess. It's the same with bloodseeker, powers that are spells but not counted as. You never know what work or not. can deciever use mythic spellcaster feats ?

Cool concept, but feel weird the chronomage don't get more time spells, the inventor can't create magic items etc... yeah, the archetype feel like the perfect trickter add-on.

[Calgacus]

I was honestly sort of hoping it'd make a good lich, but it looks like it's better suited for Trickster or Azata.

[Schlumpsha]

To be fair, the Living Deity sub-archetype could be amusing for Lich. As you for instance could pick the Wasted curse, the Bone mystery with all of its revelations, and then as capstone get both the Death and Undead domains with all of their powers in tow.

Slight downside is that it needs Atheist. So no immersive Urgathoa dialogues in such a run.

[*TRF* Viceseer]

Funny mechanic, but with Charisma scaling spells and a hybrid spell progression the class heavily banks on the merge gimmic. The archetype is the hybrid class of hybrids.

The Archetype also reminds me a bit of the Charlatan and the Ur-Priest prestige classes from DnD 3.0.

I might have got it wrong, but did they add the Arcane Spirit feat? Cha based casters get a change at giving their opponent a -2 penalty to save against their next spell.

Also, reading up on the Blackened oracle curse you get hellfire ray (6th level) and not delayed blast fire spell (7th) *sad*

[Doombringer]

Spell List (I did Living Deity path, don't think that changes things)
Banshee Blast
Caustic Eruption
Chain Lightning
Circle of Death
Disintegrate
Greater Dispel Magic (Target)
Ki Shout
Peer Into Spell Resistance
Phantasmal Putrefaction
Serenity

Acidic Spray
Arcana Theft
Baleful Polymorph
Cone of Cold
Feeblemind
Fire Snake
Hold Monster
Peer Into Avoidance
Phantasmal Killer
Wracking Ray

Boneshatter
Confusion
Curse of Magic Negation
Enervation
Fear
Obsidian Flow
Peer Into Endurance
Phantasmal Web
Shout
Touch of Slime

Dispel Magic (Target)
Fireball
Hold Person
Lightning Bolt
Peer Into Mind
Rainbow Pattern
Ray of Exhaustion
Silver Darts
Slow
Vampiric Touch

Acid Arrow
Blindness
Boneshaker
Excruciating Deformation
Explosive Runes
Frigid Touch
Haunting Mist
Hideous Laughter
Molten Orb
Peer Into Reflexes

Burning Hands
Color Spray
Corrosive Touch
Incendiary Runes
Peer Into Energy Resistance
Ray of Sickening
Reduce Person
Shocking Grasp
Sleep
Snowball

[Doombringer]

Things I noticed testing spell fusing:
Caustic Eruption + other spell causes you to get hit with other spell :(
(In my case: Disintegrate)
Haunting Mist + other spell tends to result in other spell not working...
(so RIP 1-spell combo: Baleful Polymorph + Haunting Mist dreams)
Chain Lightning + other spell doesn't chain to other targets?
(I used a single target spell here)

The Domain powers you get from Living Deity still scale off of wisdom and you don't get the spells, so it isn't as good as you would think.

[Zemann The Mann]

I don't know if it's intended or not, but I am a low level deceiver and when combining both touch spells (Shocking Grasp and Touch of Corrosion) it casts the spell twice in the log and takes out two spell slots. But if there is only one slot left, it still casts and deals its damage like it should. The log still says it's cast twice though. Seems like a bug to me since the other combined spells I've made only use one slot and are cast once in the log like they should.

I do think the class is pretty interesting and naming my own spells is fun to me (I called a Snowball/Color Spray fusion 'Yellow Snowball' :D ). Also according to the class sheet, it should have access to the damaging cantrips, yet they are not available in the spell book. Not sure which way it's supposed to be.

[Torniv]

I have noticed that spell focus, greater spell focus, Mythic spell focus, Energy focus, and Greater energy focus do not help the DC of any of the mixed spells. hopefully this will be fixed.

[wizard1200]

Originally posted by Torniv:

I have noticed that spell focus, greater spell focus, Mythic spell focus, Energy focus, and Greater energy focus do not help the DC of any of the mixed spells. hopefully this will be fixed.

Yeah, otherwise the class would be significantly weaker.

[Doombringer]

Elemental Focus doesn't work on fused spells, but if you choose the right school spell focus works fine...

[Torniv]

I chose the Evocation and did a lightning fireball and the DC did not go up.
I will check this again.
Just checked again with a fireball/lightning bolt. Dc says it's 18 when I cast it in combat it had it at 18. 20 ch and 3 for level gets it to 18. My lightning bolt dc is 20, and fireball is 22. So at least for me none of the spell feats seem to be working.