How useful is Combat Casting for a pure Wizard?

[mk53v3n]

I am currently experimenting with different builds for my Wizard and was wondering how useful the "Combat Casting" feat actually is...

Does it make sense to take this feat for a pure Wizard, although he usually never fights in melee range? (at least not when it can be avoided)

To me it seems that "Combat Casting" would be more useful to a spellcaster who regularly fights in melee combat, such as an Eldritch Scoundrel (maybe Woljif?)...?

[steventirey]

Usually taking a 5 foot step before casting can totally remove the need for a check in the first place. Though not always. Combat Casting can be useful, but likely shouldn't be a priority.

[Schlumpsha]

There will be situations where your caster is suddenly thrown within groups of enemies. Some enemies also teleport and target characters with low AC. At other times groups of enemies may sneak up on your rear, while your frontliners are engaged elsewhere. At those times having Combat Casting on your character certainly is useful.

As an alternative you could use spells and abilities that teleport your character away from foes. That usually works as long as the local map you are in is big enough.

[mk53v3n]

Thanks for your assessment guys! I'm still a little bit undecided if I should take that feat on my Wizard or not, but I guess it cannot hurt to give it to him just for emergency situations.

[Stink Bug]

The only time I’ve found taking combat casting to be worthwhile was with early game melee Maguses who use Spell Combat: in that situation even with extensive use of 5-foot step you’ll find yourself making a lot of defensive casting checks, and having the feat notably increased my success rates. However, even in that situation as soon as you put on enough levels (I think it was around 10?) your concentration score will naturally be so high you won’t be failing checks anyways, and that’s not including bonuses from equipment or other sources.

All that to say unless you have respec enabled I wouldn’t bother wasting a precious feat slot on CC.

[Dorian Gray]

I take it for a pure-mage. Otherwise skip it for hybrids.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by mk53v3n:

I am currently experimenting with different builds for my Wizard and was wondering how useful the "Combat Casting" feat actually is...

Does it make sense to take this feat for a pure Wizard, although he usually never fights in melee range? (at least not when it can be avoided)

To me it seems that "Combat Casting" would be more useful to a spellcaster who regularly fights in melee combat, such as an Eldritch Scoundrel (maybe Woljif?)...?

It's a waste of a feat on any and all characters.

[igor140]

Ok, either you guys are misunderstanding some game mechanics, or I am. (Legitimate statement: it may well be my misunderstanding.)

On a pure caster, I would say it's moderately helpful at best. There ARE enemies who will run straight past your front line to target your squishies directly (minotaurs, some of the other bigger demons, many barbarians). Those enemies tend to have fairly low defenses (but often very high HP), so they're not THAT hard to take down, but you WILL eat some Attacks of Opportunity in the meantime. It happens to my Ember all the time (~halfway through Ch3).

On a hybrid, I would say it's far more valuable, at least until you get the Greater Extend Spells mythic feat. My current MC is a melee oracle/ angel. She buffs herself, stands in the middle, and tanks all the hits while the rest of the party takes down the enemies (she actually doesn't hit very hard at all). Before I picked up CC, she was taking hits CONSTANTLY whenever she'd cast a spell; and because she was in the middle, it would often be three or four attacks at a time. She'd normally get the spell off... unless she died.

So, to run through some math, the check for concentration (to determine whether or not you will take AoOs at all) is

DC 15 + (spell level)x2

the check you roll against that is a

1d20 + Caster Level + Modifier (+ 4 Combat Casting)

So if we look at just the "static" parts of those equations, it's a flat 15 vs (CL + Modifier). By endgame, your CL should be in the 20s, and your Modifier should be close to 10... but that certainly won't be the case for the vast majority of the game.

Even then, casting a lvl 9 spells would be a concentration DC of 33; so with appropriate CL and modifier bonuses against it, you've got approximately even chances of maintaining concentration. I think it would be somewhat in your favor, but probably not by much; I would expect about a 45% chance to take an AoO.

Conversely, at lvl 5, you're looking at CL 5 and a modifier of 5 (if you're a pure caster). So that's a static 15 vs a static 10. Casting a 3rd level spell would have a DC of 21, meaning you would have a 55% chance to taking an AoO... and if you're the guy in the middle, you could very conceivable go down from all those hits.

In effect, Combat Casting improves your chances to maintain concentration (and therefore not take AoOs) by 20%, which is not insignificant, especially early game.

It matters less at high levels and crazy builds, because you have access to so many other tools and ways to buff your stats, but I'd say it's still worth spending the feat to be able to GET to those high levels, unless you have another feat that you absolutely need.

Which leads to the next feature always talk about: Spell Penetration. Why are people saying this is important? Granted, if you're willing to invest two feats AND a mythic feat, then it absolutely is important... so it should absolutely be a priority for a pure caster.

But enemy Spell Resistance is so stupidly high in this game that a +2 or even +7 (with only SP1 + mythic SP) is a joke. I'm level 10 my current playthrough, and most bosses, big enemies, random humans, and even ****ing trees have 35 or higher SR. My mages are absolutely useless.

Now, if you invest the second feat in addition to the mythic feat, that becomes a +14, which is actually enough to get past most early game SRs; but the DLC enemies have SR close to 50, so even then it's only kind of helpful.

In other words, because the game is balanced so poorly, playing a pure caster is basically not viable. I have found a LOT of spells (mostly the mind affecting ones) that ARE subject to Spell Resistance, despite saying that they are not. Which simply means that the spell card can't be trusted, and casters are kind of just shooting in the dark.

I mean, I guess the trick at that point is that it forces you to learn alternate ways to play the game... but considering 3/4 of combat in this game is watching people miss and miss and miss and miss and miss with both spells and weapons, I can't imagine enjoying a playthrough that involves even more of that.

[Duder]

If they're at range most of the time, key word most, they won't need it.
However some enemies like to charge your casters.
It's really needed for melee/casters like magus, cleric, Eldritch Scoundrel etc who will get distracted often.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by igor140:

In other words, because the game is balanced so poorly, playing a pure caster is basically not viable.

Lmao.

Use a rod of quicken to bypass the need to make Concentration checks in an emergency.

All midgame+ SR is extremely easy to penetrate with any mythic, because spellpen is extremely easy to overstack, let alone stack enough. Early game casters also barely even need to penetrate SR since you play the super early game through Conjuration... unless you're going for a Conjuration specialist.

[Duder]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by igor140:

In other words, because the game is balanced so poorly, playing a pure caster is basically not viable.

Lmao.

Use a rod of quicken to bypass the need to make Concentration checks in an emergency.

All midgame+ SR is extremely easy to penetrate with any mythic, because spellpen is extremely easy to overstack, let alone stack enough. Early game casters also barely even need to penetrate SR since you play the super early game through Conjuration... unless you're going for a Conjuration specialist.

Unless Lich no Quicken rod available til Act 4 it seems.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Duder:

Unless Lich no Quicken rod available til Act 4 it seems.

If you're worried about getting targeted in the early game, use Vanish before combat to get your spell off. Or just make a proper spellcaster with good initiative.

If you're playing on higher difficulties, you're not going to pass concentration checks reliably with or without Combat Casting. The feat is an utter waste for anyone regardless of type of character.

Investing in Mobility on your caster to move out of AoO range is an infinitely more useful way of not getting interrupted than picking up the worthless Combat Casting feat, because it does not waste a feat and synergizes with Dexterity which is the second most important stat for a caster after their main casting stat. Still, mobility is redundant on a good caster so I never use it.

[Duder]

How is it utterly useless for a Magus or Cleric though? Magus constantly get's threatened casting touch spells and every little bit helps. Clerics too, my clerics are always melee sometimes you don't want to break the melee line with mobility.
In any case I don't meta, though I respect that I rather go with my gut and role play it

[blessku]

Best way is to take spell focus feats only and as mythic feats take mythic focus spell and once u get option take expanded arsenal magic school but before u do make sure u get spell focus greater spell focus and mythic focus at one magic school first so the bonus maximaze. With it urs spells becomes truly deadly.
This way u highly increase DC of urs spells so that enemy mostly fails save throws. Ascended element helps also.
Btw if u take expanded arsenal and then further take spell focus as common feat it further increases urs DC of spells in that class also for wizard intelligence plays great role to increase DC of spells too so take that aswell.

[Raikon]

Originally posted by Duder:

How is it utterly useless for a Magus or Cleric though? Magus constantly get's threatened casting touch spells and every little bit helps. Clerics too, my clerics are always melee sometimes you don't want to break the melee line with mobility.
In any case I don't meta, though I respect that I rather go with my gut and role play it

You can, and should use enlarge person if you want to spell combat with a magus. This keeps you out of thier range so they dont get an attack of opurtunity on you when you cast a spell. Or conversly use a reach wpn. Either way, it negates your spell getting interupted, AND you taking damage. The latter being much more important.