Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Janthis Oct 13, 2023 @ 8:19am
Does AC actually matter in this game?
It feels like every time I fight a boss or any tougher enemy, they can reliably hit my tanks no matter what kind of armor and shields they're using. Is there a point, or should I just forget about it an focus on damage / things like mirror image and DR?
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Showing 1-15 of 136 comments
Deo Oct 13, 2023 @ 8:55am 
AC is a most important stat for tank in the game. It is easy stackable (it's just YOU who cannot stack it - which is funny, because there are hundreds of guides over the Internet).

Mirror Image and Blur and Displacement are just a measure to counter Natural 20 rolls from enemies. Natural 20 will hit any AC.

Protective Luck from Witch/Shaman (they stack, even) reduces the chance of being hit in general, Natural 20 included.
ptirodaktill Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:21am 
he said armor and shields, lol :D
Janthis Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:24am 
Originally posted by Deo:
AC is a most important stat for tank in the game. It is easy stackable (it's just YOU who cannot stack it - which is funny, because there are hundreds of guides over the Internet).

I've got Seelah currently at level 10 with 33 AC before spell buffs, and she still gets hit regularly in combat and killed within 2-3 rounds against most bosses and major enemies. How could I get it even higher?

he said armor and shields, lol :D

Yes, but I'm not sure what's funny. Do they not matter?
Last edited by Janthis; Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:29am
RandomDude2018 Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:31am 
Armor and shields are a noob trap. At least for now.

You can reach over 40 AC in the Shield Maze in act 1 if you're smart.
Last edited by RandomDude2018; Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:34am
ptirodaktill Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:48am 
Originally posted by RandomDude2018:
Armor and shields are a noob trap. At least for now.

You can reach over 40 AC in the Shield Maze in act 1 if you're smart.
44 on Lann with base party . Can be more if your MC provide AC boost.
ProestUnicorn Oct 13, 2023 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:
Originally posted by Deo:
AC is a most important stat for tank in the game. It is easy stackable (it's just YOU who cannot stack it - which is funny, because there are hundreds of guides over the Internet).

I've got Seelah currently at level 10 with 33 AC before spell buffs, and she still gets hit regularly in combat and killed within 2-3 rounds against most bosses and major enemies. How could I get it even higher?

he said armor and shields, lol :D

Yes, but I'm not sure what's funny. Do they not matter?
33AC is not much. You can reach around 130+AC at lvl 20 on a pet, it is possible to reach AC of 44+ at around level 4 if You go for true tank. You can leave Kanabres with AC of 50-ish.

AC matters, and it is possible to become hittable only at 20roll by bosses, then You can use something like luck hex, to make enemies have to roll 20 twice in order to hit that tank, hell, You can use shaman and witch hex to make them only be hittable by rolling 20 3x, so it is VERY possible to become almost immortal even. Things people are laughing at, is that the best AC tanks are ones that do not wear armor.
Janthis Oct 13, 2023 @ 11:08am 
Originally posted by ptirodaktill:
Originally posted by RandomDude2018:
Armor and shields are a noob trap. At least for now.

You can reach over 40 AC in the Shield Maze in act 1 if you're smart.
44 on Lann with base party . Can be more if your MC provide AC boost.

How would you reach 44 AC with level 2 or 3 characters? Seriously wondering.

Armor and shields are a noob trap. At least for now.

Things people are laughing at, is that the best AC tanks are ones that do not wear armor.

Yeah, sounds like great design alright...
Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

How would you reach 44 AC with level 2 or 3 characters? Seriously wondering.

Yeah, sounds like great design alright...

I'm not looking at any references right now, but generally hitting those numbers involves precise attribute, feat and class assignment.

Mid game was very tough for me, but by the end of the game my main character, a fighter, was able to reach AC 58, and it was enough for me for normal difficulty, albeit barely.

Cleric and Druid AC buffs grow in strength with class levels; at level 10 you should be able to get +2 on your armour and shield from the Cleric's 3rd level spell Magic Vestment, +3 deflection from the Cleric 1st level spell Shield of Faith, and if you have a druid or a scroll of barkskin another +4 natural armour enhancement bonus from Barkskin cast as CL9.

Between Seelah's full plate and heavy shield, she should be around 10 (base) + 10 (full plate + shield) + 3 (the feats dodge, shield focus, heavy armour focus), and assuming she has defensive fighting toggled (+3 dodge), that would be 26 + 11 = 37 ac.

With 13th level buffs, you'd get another +4 AC from the aforementioned buffs, and could also throw Legendary Proportions on Seelah for another 4 AC (+6 natural armour form bonus, -2 size penalty). And then you may be able to reduce her to eliminate the size factor.

At any rate, some of the AC stacking comments I've seen are wrong or irrelevant -- the claim that magic vestment's enhancement bonus stacks with armour's existing enhancement bonus is false, for instance. You might try turn-based mode so you can be sure you're moving Seelah every round to prevent melee types from taking full round attack actions, and if you have a party member with the Protective Luck hex, don't forget to use that.
canuck250 Oct 13, 2023 @ 12:52pm 
Heavy armour and shields work on unfair so they can be a noob trap but so are dex tanks which have bad touch ac.

Protective luck is one of, if not the best tank tool, Shaman and Witch hexes stack together so you can have double prot luck on your tank, this is a game changer. Now the main issue is, your tank has to deal damage to hold aggro. Since you take armour feats you lack that offence, which means in longer/larger fights your backline is in a lot of danger. With positioning and good strats this isn't much of an issue (doorways are a tank's best friend).

A little note, you want/need to take 3 ranks in mobility you get +1 AC.
Last edited by canuck250; Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:07pm
ptirodaktill Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:02pm 
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2109431799003909359/EBFA6D6AF43272E6E44B70DD3D868304FEF5DE32/
Add +4 for fighting defencively with crane style . Substract 2 AC from iceplant and 1 from dex for AC at lvl 3.
Janthis Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:
Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

How would you reach 44 AC with level 2 or 3 characters? Seriously wondering.

Yeah, sounds like great design alright...

I'm not looking at any references right now, but generally hitting those numbers involves precise attribute, feat and class assignment.

Mid game was very tough for me, but by the end of the game my main character, a fighter, was able to reach AC 58, and it was enough for me for normal difficulty, albeit barely. (...)

Thanks, I understand you get some crazy abilities at high levels, but I was more interested in claims like you can get 40 AC in the shield maze, at which point your party would be level 2 or 3. I imagine it involves min-maxed stats and some crazy class/feat combinations.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2109431799003909359/EBFA6D6AF43272E6E44B70DD3D868304FEF5DE32/
Add +4 for fighting defencively with crane style . Substract 2 AC from iceplant and 1 from dex for AC at lvl 3.

+9 dexterity bonus? And how did you get mutagen, iceplant and lizard familiar? The rest comes from spells/potions, that I can see.
Last edited by Janthis; Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:10pm
canuck250 Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:20pm 
Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:
Thanks, I can imagine you some crazy abilities at high levels, but I was more interested in claims like you can get 40 AC in the shield maze, at which point your party would be level 2 or 3. I imagine it involves min-maxed stats and some crazy class/feat combinations.


What I do on higher difficulties;
Since I like Wendy, I start the maze with lann and at level 2 take a pet class so he gets the leopard, then at the end of the maze I swap over to Wendy so I can build her normal, swap roles if you want Lann for your run. At level 3 which you can get before any of the real tough fights your Pard can get 38 ac with all basic stuff.
Buy the potions of mage armour at the camp, this is +4 AC. (1 hour per level)
You get shield of faith potions, +2 (1 min per level)
Cam gets barkskin at lvl 3 for +4 (10 min per level)
Lann as hunter gives a free +2 to dex = +1 AC passive
dodge feat for +1
fighting defensively for +3,

You will be constantly 36 ac and get a couple of those SoF potions to hit 38 for the bigger fights. Add Cam's prot luck, you are cruising.
Last edited by canuck250; Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:20pm
Deo Oct 13, 2023 @ 1:26pm 
Level 11 Lann. https://ibb.co/FhLvys0

~33 ac is enough for level 3 (Shield Maze), and Leopard pet can reach it with just Barkskin and Mage armor with little to no investment (Hunter's Tiger Animal Focus, Camelia can cast Barkskin, and Mage armor potions are plentiful).
Janthis Oct 13, 2023 @ 2:15pm 
Originally posted by Deo:
Level 11 Lann. https://ibb.co/FhLvys0

~33 ac is enough for level 3 (Shield Maze), and Leopard pet can reach it with just Barkskin and Mage armor with little to no investment (Hunter's Tiger Animal Focus, Camelia can cast Barkskin, and Mage armor potions are plentiful).

Cool, but again how do you get +7 wis bonus and +13 dex bonus? And where does the lizard familiar and spider form stuff come from?
reidj062 Oct 13, 2023 @ 2:18pm 
Originally posted by Eternollon:
It's never been a clean design in D&D as levels become higher, I wouldn't be surprised PF failed target it.

WOTR is worst than most. Plagued Simollidons and the Pharasma Inquisitors, as well as most of the mythic bosses definitely hit on anything better than a one.
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Date Posted: Oct 13, 2023 @ 8:19am
Posts: 136