Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Advice for Unfair Act 1 & 2?
Hey,

I'm still in act 3 due to trying out different characters a lot, on Core, but I'm starting to think about all the things I learnt on these runs and how I could translate it into Unfair when inevitably I run it once for the Unfair-only achievs.

After playing through the act 1, 2 & majority of 3, I have concluded by far the most frustrating and inconsistent experience tends to be Act 1 itself in general, especially the market square and shield maze, and then act 2, specifically gargoyle regill encounter, battle of Drezen (♥♥♥♥ Blightmaw) and Lost Chapel, also Leper's Smile depending on run.

So, I'd like to ask for some tips on how to make Act 1 & 2 more sufferable on Unfair as I cannot imagine quite how I'm going to do them yet with double damage received considering already some encounters on Core feel hit-or-miss or just straight up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ depending on what build I bring in.

What I have so far:

In general it seems act 1 & 2 heavily favor martial classes over casters, since you get plenty of decent casters but only okay-ish martials. Ember is good for CC & for fire damage, Seelah/Regill both can tank very well, Camellia can either tank very well or dps very well, and she can bring tons of buffs for everyone, Nenio I have yet to find a good spot for, she's good for the tavern defense due to ton of pit spells and haste, but you can just buy haste scrolls for woljiff for that fight. Woljiff kinda sucks because he doesn't really come online yet, he's decent right when you first get him, but I am overall not a fan of eldritch scoundrel, prefer sylvan or knife master, or thug for level dips. Wenduag is great as child of manticore. Daeran is excellent in my experience if you focus him on rapier fight, give him Finnean for you don't find any good rapier in act 1, give him nature spirit right before level 7 so he can get a wolf and ride it right away.

In terms of early tanking, I intend to go for the vanilla option of Seelah 3 into paladin, 1 level dip into beast rider right before paladin lv4 so she gets riding dog as mount since horse sucks, 1 level dip into stigmatized witch for some free buffs and AC, rest into paladin.

For myself, I think i'll go either manticore shifter myself or weretouched shifter as in my experience weretouched is incredibly powerful right from level 4, since their major forms last an hour instead of 1 minute (dunno why but I ain't complaining, makes master shapeshifter so much less necessary for act 2 so you can go last stand and offtank), mythic path either Trickster or Lich, Lich has the benefit of being cooler, having better spells and having more survivability though I'm not sure vampiric blade would work for shifter, Trickster is just great overall, especially with the improved critical and giving a middlefinger to this garbage called nat 1.

For party composition, I think Camellia is kind of unavoidable here since she just provides way too much value through protective luck, evil eye & fortune as well as battle spirit, enchantment and very good spellbook even if ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ slots. Ember for cheesing sleep + coup de grace, as well as for CC (winter's grasp, web), Wenduag as death machinegun, Seelah (later maybe Regill) as what I described in tank section, Ulbrig as frontline bulldozer in act 1 & 2, loses his spot to Arue in act 3 for hunter's bond, utility & higher consistent with more survivability. Daeran as healer + melee fighter with archon's aura, plenty of selfbuffs, wolf mount & rapier Finnean.

I don't want to go Demon which I see often suggested for weretouched shifter because demons just don't get a whole lot of permanent power I believe from what I heard, rather they get windows of extreme power but that requires knowing exactly when you need it the most.

Pros I see for Lich is easier dealing with undead and survivability, pros I see for Trickster is higher dps and I keep Seelah whom I don't particularly like as a character, but she will probably end up being a better tank than Regill for this.
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Showing 1-15 of 40 comments
Pet classes are your friend. Use pets to tank for you in act 1-2. A leopard pet is the best early game tank in the game. Beast Rider dip for Seelah is good, but after alot of trial and error i have been finding that dipping into Tandem Executioner seems to be even better in most cases.

Later dog/wolf pets will CC mobs for you by tripping them and letting you kill enemies easily. Ember's sleep hex is also amazing in act 1.

Comboed with liberal usage of Grease/Winter's grasp/Web/Stinking clud you can make all the fights easy even on Unfair
Last edited by leyasu888; Mar 2 @ 11:01pm
A metric woofton of zoo escapees are seriously good. If you are not bored out of your mind of mostly picking zoophilic classes yet, look at these at every turn.
Mounted Combat and the derivative for saves are actually very good feats if you have exceptionally high Mobility skill. Skill focus is viable.

For melee dudes without a noble mutt, AC needs to be cranked as much as feasible. You've already got the Iceplant trick. Non-lawful melees with decent Wisdom (Hi Camellia) can go three levels of Drunken Master. Along with the basic monk kit of unarmored AC and Crane Style, they get a passive alchemical bonus to -both- attack rolls and AC.
At 3 levels of Drunken Master and 16 Wis, you get a passive +3 to both. This can later be improved with mythic ki pool.

Second, I've grown kind of dependent upon an Alchemist. I just can't get away from having one. They just do so much to crank the stats of everybody. So, they do 2 uniqueish things.
Casting Shield on others. Shields are for schmucks anyway. Note that you still get enhancement bonuses from equipped shields, so that +2 buckler is totally useful.
Casting Aspect of *furry* on others. While these spells are pretty mediocre by themselves (though Maneuver Bonus and extra speed is often relevant), the recipient is considered Polymorphed. With the mythic ability Master Shapeshifter you get a passive +4 to all physical stats while in effect. This is a great pick for mythic level 2, since that's about when say, Woljif, can actually start casting the spells on people. And he gets greater enduring.

Lastly, be very mindful of buff typings. Some classes are very good at getting morale bonuses to attacks, during which a Bard with Inspire Competense might not help them. Also Heroism is easyish to keep up a meaningful amount of the time early. Skald by contrast is good at providing untyped buffs

Edit: oh, and of course, spend alllll your money on gear and scrolls. Many scrolls, all the scrolls that buff you somehow. Roll them up and snort them every morning.
Last edited by Gentlest Giant; Mar 2 @ 11:36pm
Lann is best tank unless you want your MC to tank. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3050306758 Under double protective luck he can tank 100% of content in the game, right from the begining.
Camelia - powerfull support, pick protective luck on lvl 2, then chant, then evil eye. Don`t bother with her martial side, she will be busy with her hexes. Later on you can use hellfire ray to deal dmg if you need it .
Seelah - the game tell you she should be a tank with armor and shield LOL. The game don`t work that way, so she will be your main DD at the begining of the game. 1 level of Rowdy for vital strike, then Magus Eldrich scion for true strike. 95% chance to hit, most enemies die in one vital strike, few require two. As palladin she will be useless till lvl 11, so its not a big deal. You can respec her later or get a merc with 22 CHA instead if you need extra AB juice from mark of justice.
Your MC is irrelevant for shield maze, but full BAB martials, especialy with pets or pure casters perform better. Alchemist/vivi can support Seelah with true strike via infusion, its much better that wasting your time dealing 0 dmg with bombs
Once you`re out of shield maze, buy mercs for support. If you want to play around melee party, get a Scald. If you want to cheeze the game get a dedicated thug , as its trivial to reach enough persuation for 100% chance of intimidation check for guaranteed CC. No matter what you do, at lvl 3 everyone need blind fight feat to make your party immune to gaze attacks. Dedicated conjurer make lots of fight relatively easy, as you can lock stuff with grease, deny dex bonus with glitterdust and disable humans with stinking cloud. PIck mythick that bypass poison immunity and stinking cloud will be your best friend for entire game, since these damn demon archers have garbage fortitude saves.
Drezen is super annoying for non-tanky main character, as everyone is scripted to attack you, but stinking cloud is lifesaver.
Last edited by ptirodaktill; Mar 3 @ 12:32am
jonnin Mar 3 @ 12:45am 
Along with the pet theme, the king is the monster summoner inquisitor, and an animal domain gets a pet alongside it. Note that camillia has green faith, which has animal domain, and a 16 wis, all you need for the class.... she could cover the map in dogs and wolves from level 2 onward and quickly pick up any of many companion pets.

Summoned stuff has a borky targeting and will go out of its way to get killed by AOO or run through your grease. Its best if you can summon it into the door/room as your first action that alerts the enemy, then once they settle on targets you can lay down your pits/grease/etc and figure out the plan of action. They won't last long. About all you can do for the summons is a mass protection from evil in the early game.
Last edited by jonnin; Mar 3 @ 12:50am
Originally posted by Gentlest Giant:
This is a great pick for mythic level 2, since that's about when say, Woljif, can actually start casting the spells on people. And he gets greater enduring.
Yeah, about that ...

(Sorry - couldn't help it. Advice seems sound, it's just that particular example isn't practical.)
Originally posted by ptirodaktill:
No matter what you do, at lvl 3 everyone need blind fight feat to make your party immune to gaze attacks.
Huh???

Does Last Sarkorians (or other Season Pass 2 DLC) introduce gaze attacks? From base game plus season pass 1, I can only think of vampire spawn, and that's easily mitigated by protection from evil.

What am I missing?

(edit ...)
If it works against the Nabasu death gaze, then I see the usefulness. Not sure I'd describe as "must take at Level 3", but I wouldn't have posted if it were just a minor disagreement. (At a minimum, could delay to Level 5 since you should easily be Level 5 before the first nabasu.)
Last edited by forkofspite; Mar 3 @ 7:23am
jonnin Mar 3 @ 6:54am 
Originally posted by forkofspite:
Originally posted by ptirodaktill:
No matter what you do, at lvl 3 everyone need blind fight feat to make your party immune to gaze attacks.
Huh???

Does Last Sarkorians (or other Season Pass 2 DLC) introduce gaze attacks? From base game plus season pass 1, I can only think of vampire spawn, and that's easily mitigated by protection from evil.

What am I missing?

those giant bugs gaze, the rakers(?) even on lower levels, and the nabashu (Sp?) have one. There are probably others.
Originally posted by forkofspite:
Originally posted by ptirodaktill:
No matter what you do, at lvl 3 everyone need blind fight feat to make your party immune to gaze attacks.
Huh???

Does Last Sarkorians (or other Season Pass 2 DLC) introduce gaze attacks? From base game plus season pass 1, I can only think of vampire spawn, and that's easily mitigated by protection from evil.

What am I missing?
Nabasu starts every fight with a 30 meter radius negative levels gaze, is first thing that comes to my mind
Originally posted by jonnin:
those giant bugs gaze, the rakers(?) even on lower levels, and the nabashu (Sp?) have one. There are probably others.
Retrievers (giant bugs) - not a gaze attack. They shoot rays as a free action (one per turn).
Even though they originate from their eyes, they are not gaze effects. But, I don't think I've ever tried to see if blind fighting would somehow prevent those from having an effect (would never have thought to try since it's not a gaze attack).

Nabasu - yeah, those are annoying. Seems odd that I wouldn't have tested blind fighting against those, but I can't specifically recall doing so. I was under the impression that blind fighting didn't help against that. Even though it's called "death gaze", I think it's implemented as an aura and blind fighting doesn't help. However, I don't remember what led to that impression, so I could easily be mistaken.
I genuinely never even realized blind fight helps against gaze attacks, I just assumed it's only for not getting reduced AC against anything concealed/invisible
Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:
I genuinely never even realized blind fight helps against gaze attacks, I just assumed it's only for not getting reduced AC against anything concealed/invisible
The post called out gaze attacks. It was practically mandatory in Kingmaker for the wild hunt, but I don't remember being useful in Wrath as a defense against gaze attacks. I'm not even sure if it works like that in Wrath (it doesn't in tabletop).

As for invisible creatures, if you already know where they are (i.e., not a "blind unfair run"), then to me, it seems like a waste of an early feat choice - there are other ways to handle it if you already know where to expect invisible creatures.

That being said, blind fighting can certainly be useful, so if it's something you intend to take anyway, then there's no problem with taking it early.
Originally posted by forkofspite:
Yeah, about that ...
Oh right the deadbeat dip:DSTpoop: can't be bothered to show up even for his own power spike
Originally posted by Gentlest Giant:
Originally posted by forkofspite:
Yeah, about that ...
Oh right the deadbeat dip:DSTpoop: can't be bothered to show up even for his own power spike
Ah yes, I was just going actually in my current sorcerer offstream save like "Right, this time around, I am going to use Woljiff actually!" And then I realized I am in act 2 and that... yeah... that's going to happen.. right :D

Anyway thank you all for advice, hopefully I'll be able to make use of some of it, it's still long ways away as I definitely do not intend to go Unfair without at least playing through the whole game once to know where to expect what, and I have yet to reach act 4 on any of my characters, so, fingers crossed. :)
Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:
Anyway thank you all for advice,
Full disclosure - I'm not an unfair player. Well, technically, I'm trying to get through unfair now - I have a run in Act 1 (like you, chasing the Test of the Starstone achievement).

Progress is slow though, because I have some sort of compulsion to bring along a clean but still complete Last Azlanti run along for the ride using the non-LA to test strategies at key points. That one has not yet completed the Shield Maze - ferocious lizards being a common stumbling block because they switch targets easily, and Hosilla being the other common fail point (attacked while flat-footed).
Originally posted by forkofspite:
Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:
Anyway thank you all for advice,
Full disclosure - I'm not an unfair player. Well, technically, I'm trying to get through unfair now - I have a run in Act 1 (like you, chasing the Test of the Starstone achievement).

Progress is slow though, because I have some sort of compulsion to bring along a clean but still complete Last Azlanti run along for the ride using the non-LA to test strategies at key points. That one has not yet completed the Shield Maze - ferocious lizards being a common stumbling block because they switch targets easily, and Hosilla being the other common fail point (attacked while flat-footed).
For the lizards I'd suggest spamming the door of that room with grease and holding positiion on the other side with ranged/reach weapons, lizards are not immune to prone condition and despite this game's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ RNG being heavily skewed in enemy's favor, I usually see at least 1-2 fall to one of the 4 rolls they have to take. Keep in mind there's no corruption in shield maze so you can rest endlessly.
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Date Posted: Mar 2 @ 10:21pm
Posts: 40