Suggestions for merc Ghost Rider build

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

I started a new run and want to build a team for Lich mythic path. Ghost Rider class seems like a good thematic choice. As a pure class it looks pretty ordinary. How could I make it better? I'm going to be using different builds for the standard characters so I'm not sure yet, what my team needs, but it's probably a melee character. A bard of some sorts could be another choice.

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

I have a guide for my MC Lich, but I'm hiring a merc to accompany him.

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

I should probably multi-class into something with pet progression, right?

[Draken]

Originally posted by Pulverizer FIN:

I should probably multi-class into something with pet progression, right?

Depends on what you are going for and at what difference you are playing.
On the lower difficulties, just about anything with a lick of sense will work.
But yeah, pet progression would be something to look out for for sure.

What exactly do you want the role of the Ghost Rider to be?
Tank or DPS? The Order of the Lion also has some nice support options.

Here are some break points of nice to have feats:
Level 1: health sharing via Ethereal Tether
Level 8: 20% concealment for mount, order feat
Level 14: reverse tether (mount heals rider), mount flies
Level 15: final order feat
Level 20: Supreme Charge

Possible multiclasses with mount:

Bloodrager => Bloodrider. Gets you some casting which also uses charisma. You could chosse the Undead bloodline to be in line with a ghost mount and a Lich.
Druid => Feyspeaker. More charisma based casting.
- Oracle with Nature Revelation, inflict wounds. More charisma based casting.

Other classes with mounts:
- Cleric with nature domain
- Hunter
- Sacred Huntsmaster (Inquisitor)
- Arcane Rider
- Sohei
- Ranger

There is also Paladin, but I think that doesn't make too much sense with a Lich path main character.

Definitely an interesting concept. If you make them a Dhampir and the mount Deathtouch, they would also benefit from any negative energy channeling to heal the Lich and other undead companions.

[Razer]

I think Feyspeaker has low BAB. That's mainly a caster.

[leyasu888]

Ghost rider is a very meh archetype. For build ideas my suggestions would be as following.

1 GR/19 Tandem Executioner
9 GR/11 Paladin
9 GR/11 Sohei.

I am assuming that the whole idea of taking GR is for the cool factor of the ghost horse. 19 Tandem Executioner after taking the horse pet actually buffs the pet alot more than if you went full 20 GR which is kind of ironic lol. Plus the class just gets alot more cool stuff than GR does. The Spellbane tandem feat is really good to support your Lich MC.

9 GR/11 Paladin lets you get the GR Gaze which is probably the best part of the whole archetype other than the cool unique horse and also lets you end up with mark of justice at level 20 which is huge in a demon infested game. You will be going full on charisma to synergize with both abilities. Plus you lose Seelah as Lich in act 5 so having an alternative to replace her with is good.

9 GR/11 Sohei. Similar to the previous one but Sohei is just a good martial class and has full pet progression. So you will be focusing more on your own martial prowess.

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm looking for dps type of character here on the technical side of things.

Can't be paladin or sohei, because he's neutral evil. Tandem executioner I like and I've already doing it (made a "guard and his "dog"- really a lizard who grabs opponents), but we'll see.

I already had 3 levels as ghost rider and added divine hunter. I was thinking:
A) 8 levels of GR (for the concealment), 5 levels of DH (for woodland stride) and 7 levels of something, tandem or bloodrider.
B) 9 levels of GR for the gaze that ignores immunities, 5 DH and 6 for the last class, but that would leave me 1 level short for the next important skill for tandem.

The DC for the gaze is bad (10+4 GHlvl+2 cha). It can be improved by cha headgear, but is there anything else that improves it? Does spell penetration work here?

[Draken]

The Gaze DC is the same as the one for Witch hexes, and Slumber is a very good one.
Of course it depends on your Ghost Rider level, so multiclassing will make it quickly not worth it. You are also not going to want to invest to heavily into charisma for a melee dps character, which is why I didn't mention the gaze as one of the important feats to get.

I also don't think spell penetration will help, that is for getting past spell resistance. The Quaterstaff of Coercion and similar items should work.

As for Divine Hunter, why do you want Woodland stride? At level 5 your Ghost mount already ignores difficult terrain.
If you go to level 14, it goes airborn, which also removes all the ground effects.
Or do you want to not sit on the ghost horse?

Divine Hunter also uses Wisdom, so that is not the best class as you already want Strength, some Dexterity and Charisma for Ghost Rider.

If you want a melee DPS with some buff spells, I would suggest the Bloodrider. You are also going to have a very fast mount that way. :D

You could try Ghost Rider 12, Bloodrider 8.
That would give you level 1 and 2 spells, BaB of 20, and also a mount with a speed of 100.
If you take the Trample feat, you can run over a lot of enemies very quickly.

Not sure how good it would actually be, but it does sound like fun.

[leyasu888]

I find Bloodrager quite annoying to play until they hit level 17 where they no longer get fatigued after raging. You need to remember to use a restoration scroll on the character after each combat. Not a big deal but just annoying :p and to me the biggest draw of a bloodrager is the ability to morph into a big Hydra with 5 bite attacks at 16 :p (Made a merc bloodrager with a 1 level dip in beast rider for the dog pet instead built around biting it was really fun to bring around).

I personally feel going 5 DH to just get woodland stride abit of a waste and since you are already a hunter class with DH you cannot go Tandem executioner anymore since it is also a Hunter class. What domain is your DH? I presume one of the meta domains like community or madness? No point going animal since you already start with a pet. if you are going 5 DH you might as well go all the way to 8/9 DH for the second ability from the domain.

Edit: As mentioned by Draken above, if you are not going the paladin route for double usage of Charisma from smite evils and the gaze the GR gaze will not be very useful since there is no point in having high charisma, Just pump your strength and beat stuff.

Personally if you have respec enabled i would just respec the merc :p

[Draken]

@leyasu888
I saw someone mentioning that oracle curse progresses at 1/2 speed for non oracle classes, so if you take a 1 level dip into an Oracle or Stygatized Witch, you could pick up the Lame curse and get immunity to fatigue at character level 9 (1 + 4*2).

This would actually still fit into the Ghost Rider/ Bloodrider build, though you would lose 1 BaB. But you would either get some hex or revelation to compensate.

[leyasu888]

Originally posted by Draken:

@leyasu888
I saw someone mentioning that oracle curse progresses at 1/2 speed for non oracle classes, so if you take a 1 level dip into an Oracle or Stygatized Witch, you could pick up the Lame curse and get immunity to fatigue at character level 9 (1 + 4*2).

This would actually still fit into the Ghost Rider/ Bloodrider build, though you would lose 1 BaB. But you would either get some hex or revelation to compensate.

Does the oracle curse work like that? Was not aware of that. Still learning new stuff about this game every day lol.

A problem with that 1 level dip though would be you would need to take Boon companion to get your pet to have full level progression. Not worth it if that is the only 1 level dip you are taking in my opinion.

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

Woodland stride says "..and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment". What does this cover? Spike stones ? Grease? Deadly Earth?
Spirited mount "ignores difficult terrain" but not any damaging effects or otherwise. So WS sounds better at lvl5 than ghost wind at lvl14 (which is too far into GR atm).

I picked death domain for rp reasons. Lvl8 would give death's embrace, but it's already deathtouched so I guess that doesn't matter. I'm not sure what Lich path does, but I heard it makes all my team semi-undead or something?

The dip into oracle/witch to counter rage fatigue (which I didn't remember exists) sounds interesting.

I'm trying to make him mostly melee, but not totally if possible. He doesn't have to be optimised but fun and thematically fitting. If he could scare enemies it would be cool. The ability to ignore fear immunity is unique(?).

[Draken]

Originally posted by leyasu888:

Originally posted by Draken:

@leyasu888
I saw someone mentioning that oracle curse progresses at 1/2 speed for non oracle classes, so if you take a 1 level dip into an Oracle or Stygatized Witch, you could pick up the Lame curse and get immunity to fatigue at character level 9 (1 + 4*2).

This would actually still fit into the Ghost Rider/ Bloodrider build, though you would lose 1 BaB. But you would either get some hex or revelation to compensate.

Does the oracle curse work like that? Was not aware of that. Still learning new stuff about this game every day lol.

A problem with that 1 level dip though would be you would need to take Boon companion to get your pet to have full level progression. Not worth it if that is the only 1 level dip you are taking in my opinion.

As Oracle you can just take Life Mystery and get your first Revelation to be an Animal Companion. So that isn't a problem. You already need Boon Companion for the Bloodrider as he only gets the Animal Companion at level 5.

And yes, I tested it, it makes you immune to exhaustion. And that works with Bloodrage.

Originally posted by Pulverizer FIN:

Woodland stride says "..and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment". What does this cover? Spike stones ? Grease? Deadly Earth?
Spirited mount "ignores difficult terrain" but not any damaging effects or otherwise. So WS sounds better at lvl5 than ghost wind at lvl14 (which is too far into GR atm).

I picked death domain for rp reasons. Lvl8 would give death's embrace, but it's already deathtouched so I guess that doesn't matter. I'm not sure what Lich path does, but I heard it makes all my team semi-undead or something?

The dip into oracle/witch to counter rage fatigue (which I didn't remember exists) sounds interesting.

I'm trying to make him mostly melee, but not totally if possible. He doesn't have to be optimised but fun and thematically fitting. If he could scare enemies it would be cool. The ability to ignore fear immunity is unique(?).

1. Woodland stride sounds as if it's for you personally, not for your mount. Given that you are probably on your mount, that shouldn't really apply anyway. The Hunter class seems to be more about fighting next to your Animal Companion, not on top of it.

2. Flying grants you immunity to ground based effects. So every spell with the Ground descriptor just doesn't apply.

I did some tests and things like Entangle, Grease, Pit and Winter's Grasp just don't apply to a flying Ghost horse. For Woodland stride, it seems to honestly not do anything. It doesn't blocked Entangle, Winter's Grasp, Pit or Grease. I did a bit of research and apparently Woodland Stride only works on natural difficult terrain, not on magical effects. That part seems to be missing from the description. It also doesn't affect the mount at all. Spiked Growth seems to be bugged at it hits everything, including flying Ghost horses.

So if you want your rider to not worry about ground effects, the level 14 feat is the best option. I agree that it's a pretty steep investment and probably not that necessary.

As for thematic, a Bloodrider with the Death bloodline gets "Frightful Charge". Which works while mounted. :)
So I would go for a Ghost Rider 12, Bloodrider 7, Oracle 1.

The 8th level of Bloodrider only cost you 10 cold and negative energy resistance. The 12 level of Ghost Rider would cost you a bonus feat as well as Demanding Challenge, which lets you basically debuff the AC of an enemy by 2 for anyone beside the Ghost Rider for one battle, 4 times per rest.

With 100 movement speed, Trample and Perfect Cavalry, you can just run through a group of enemies at speed they can't hope to match without AoOs and then Trample the enemy caster at the back to the ground so that they fall prone.
The tests I did were certainly fun. It's a incredible mobile character that can quickly be exactly where you needed him to be.

[Pulverizer [FIN]]

Sounds cool, I'll try that. Have to respec him, but that's not a problem. Thanks for the help!