"Best Jokes" mythic power

[Fistimus Maximus]

Hello im building a azata enchanter build and looked at a few builds, most dip into loremaster to get greater command but is that worth it anymore as heard Best jokes now effects immune to prone creatures? Or is greater command still a must have dip?

[Soul]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Fistimus Maximus:

sounds strong but at that point your might aswell stick with blasting.

lol.... the way I play sorcerer is to try to make it versatile....

blasting is nice of course.... with ascendant element you cant really go wrong with it since it works on enemies of all types...

but the thing is CC is king.... being able to shut down entire mobs with one spell is better than spending multiple spells trying to take them out with blasting spells...

thing with sorcerer is they have a limited number of spells they can cast... but with metamagic you can make your spellbook really beefy.... which also means you dont need to worry about picking a lot of spells to begin with.... so I build my sorcerer to be versatile enough that I have something to do if I need it done....

for example.... a wizard hits level 10 and class alone lets them have 2 spells they can prepare per day to choose from their spellbook for level 5 spells..... while a sorcerer just gets access to their first level 5 spell at level 10 and crossblooded gets no new spells but still gets spells per day....

so my sorcerer spellbook at level 10 for 5th level spells looks something like this...

echolocation... first 5th level spell
overwhelming grief... heightened
dimension door... heightened
haste... heightened
lightning bolt... selective, bolstered
lightning bolt... bolstered, intensified
fireball.... selective, bolstered
fireball... bolstered, intensified
resist energy communal.... heightened
glitterdust... selective, heightened
web... selective, heightened
invisibility.... heightened
hideous laughter.... heightened
scorching ray... bolstered, heightened
snowball... intensified, bolstered, heightened
grease... selective, heightened
magic missile... bolster, heightened

and thats just at level 10.... not counting the spells i'd learn later levels and slap more metamagic on those to make that list bigger...

so basically my spellbook is like a swiss army knife.... ready to blast, buff, CC... whenever the situation calls for it...

as a seeker sorcerer you get 8 feats by level 10... 2 at level 1... 4 from odd levels 3,5,7,9.... and 2 from seeker bonus feat at levels 5 and 10....

so I go point blank shot and selective metamagic off the bat at level 1.... level 3 I take precise shot.... level 5 I take metamagic bolster and metamagic intensified.... level 7 I take metamagic heighten.... level 9 and level 10 I take spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus enchantment... right in time for clearing up Act 2 and starting Act 3 when I can get more gear for spell penetration and DC increase...

and I tend to go the enduring spell line of mythic feats at 4th and 5th mythic levels.... which makes my buffs even more useful for having them higher levels.... like resist energy communal.... slot that spell on all spell levels so that when I camp I prebuff those before resting... and waking up still have like 15 hours remaining on em plus I get all my spells per day back....

[Fistimus Maximus]

Hmm was tempted to instead of ray put those feats into buffing illusion for instant kills, will save on touch feats and fit more with a fey character theme wise. Issue I have is if I should do the recommend 5 loremaster for greater command. Is it required since hideous got buffed? or still a must against bosses which are immune to mind effecting?

[Balekai]

Below is what I basically did with my Mythic Trickster, Core/Hard High DC Enchanter/Conjurer build, which has all the CC in the world one could want + effective Hideous Laughter Best Jokes.

I updated the build after the latest feat/mythic ability additions that made the whole thing that much better. Minus Expanded School Nerf but we got normal feats that made up for that and freed up Mythic ability choices (like the added Corruptor one). Note some points only apply to Trickster, but most will help you get the most out of an Enchanter/Conjurer with some illusion on the side.



- Seeker of course (at least for Mythic Trickster) because this gives you the feats you need to take everything you want (the "rogue" version of Sorcerer). you also gain Seeker's Trapfinding allowing you super high trickery skill (which is especially good on Trickster MC for Mythic Trick Trickery 1 and 2, allowing you to ALWAYS greater dispel all buff stacking on even the hardest bosses/enemies with such a high "DC").


- New(er) Arcane Spirit Feat and Ambuscading Spell Feats. The feats that partially make up for Expanded School stacking nerf. They also allow Enchantment and Conjuration to be a lot more viable from early levels on higher difficulties, by front loading spell DC potential starting as low as level 1-2.


- Initiative stacking with Pickpocket background, Improved Initiative, and Arcane familiar (Hare from Second Bloodline), so you act first always pretty much catching enemies flatfooted, and thus giving them -2 DC saves with Ambuscading Spell.


- Don't take spell focus into Enchantment. Take conjuration focus line instead to help your Grease etc. until enchantment becomes more viable at later levels. Then eventually take Expanded School: enchantment to up those enchantment DCs using conjuration foci. *Edit NOTE: I figured out later today this is problematic, due to School Power and Expanded Arsenal not working correctly with one another when of the same School. Better to focus on Enchantment from the start with Spell Focus line then Expanded Arsenal: Conjuration. Hurts early/mid game Conjuration saves, but saves you from respecing at higher difficulties.*


- Kitsune CHA Bonus to DC + Kitsune Magic another +1 Enchantment School DCs + Fey Bloodline for another +2 Compulsion DC (which Hideous Laughter is part of), then take Second Bloodline --> Arcane Bloodline Mythic Ability for another +1 to all DCs from "Arcane Bloodline Arcana," then getting School Power: Enchantment for +2 Enchantment DCs at level 15 Arcane Sorceror. (Note you cannot take Arcane Bloodline as your first Bloodline if you want Spell Power, because Seeker Sorcerer rules will disable Spell Power due to Archetype mechanics. So it has to be your Second Bloodline mythic ability choice).


- The new(er) Corruptor Mythic Ability is a huge game changing deal for CC in Wotr, making it more along the lines of Kingmaker. This allows us to use the likes of Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill etc. on anything and everything from undead, demons, and bosses as our poisons etc. now bypass all immunity and resistance. We can basically disable enemies any which way we want or at least butter them up with poison/disease debuffs. Grease vs. Reflex saves, Stinking Cloud vs. Fortitude, Mind Effecting Spells vs. Will. Fort and Reflex are much lower then willpower on enemies, so they don't need a lot of help to get going. Hell I can Grease most enemies with my "Cantrip" Grease lol.


- I take Best Jokes at Mythic Level 5 which seems to be about the perfect time when your DCs get high enough for it to land regularly.


- As Trickster I abuse "Completely Normal Spell" metamagic, Heighten magic and Enduring Spells of course (note that when lowering a spell by one this enables Aracne Bloodline Arcana +1 DC for metamagic spells). I can knock down all my spells 1 level and all my level 1 spells become cantrips. Leaving tons of rooms for level 1, level 2 spells (like Hideous Laughter which has 40ish more or less effective DC even at level 1 casts).

Obviously I never run out of spells to cast. :D


It could be played on unfair I believe, as I did so through a non campaign DLC Inevitable Excess run. That was before Corruptor, Arcane Spirit/Ambuscading Spell Feats.


By late game you can pre place tons of Grease because they're unlimited, throw up a stinking cloud or two + Mind Fog, start the fight, then cast a low to high end Hideous laughter to truly disable everything. And/Or Feeblemind tough intelligent casters to disable their ownage. Also again the Greater Trickery Dispel for guaranteed removal of tons of enemy buffs on a target to truly lower their saves and immunity in many cases. Just with one unavoidable touch range ability (not a touch spell) and unlimited use.


Anyways here's the long detailed version I posted in the builds section as a replacement fix, for a pre release borked Nine Tailed Kitsune build I didn't update for years, but saw people still trying to use it. So this was the result and includes all enchantment items and their locations for such CC builds:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/5/4845399746422979824/

[Fistimus Maximus]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Balekai:

Below is what I basically did with my Mythic Trickster, Core/Hard High DC Enchanter/Conjurer build, which has all the CC in the world one could want + effective Hideous Laughter Best Jokes.

I updated the build after the latest feat/mythic ability additions that made the whole thing that much better. Minus Expanded School Nerf but we got normal feats that made up for that and freed up Mythic ability choices (like the added Corruptor one). Note some points only apply to Trickster, but most will help you get the most out of an Enchanter/Conjurer with some illusion on the side.



- Seeker of course (at least for Mythic Trickster) because this gives you the feats you need to take everything you want (the "rogue" version of Sorcerer). you also gain Seeker's Trapfinding allowing you super high trickery skill (which is especially good on Trickster MC for Mythic Trick Trickery 1 and 2, allowing you to ALWAYS greater dispel all buff stacking on even the hardest bosses/enemies with such a high "DC").


- New(er) Arcane Spirit Feat and Ambuscading Spell Feats. The feats that partially make up for Expanded School stacking nerf. They also allow Enchantment and Conjuration to be a lot more viable from early levels on higher difficulties, by front loading spell DC potential starting as low as level 1-2.


- Initiative stacking with Pickpocket background, Improved Initiative, and Arcane familiar (Hare from Second Bloodline), so you act first always pretty much catching enemies flatfooted, and thus giving them -2 DC saves with Ambuscading Spell.


- Don't take spell focus into Enchantment. Take conjuration focus line instead to help your Grease etc. until enchantment becomes more viable at later levels. Then eventually take Expanded School: enchantment to up those enchantment DCs using conjuration foci.


- Kitsune CHA Bonus to DC + Kitsune Magic another +1 Enchantment School DCs + Fey Bloodline for another +2 Compulsion DC (which Hideous Laughter is part of), then take Second Bloodline --> Arcane Bloodline Mythic Ability for another +1 to all DCs from "Arcane Bloodline Arcana," then getting School Power: Enchantment for +2 Enchantment DCs at level 15 Arcane Sorceror. (Note you cannot take Arcane Bloodline as your first Bloodline if you want Spell Power, because Seeker Sorcerer rules will disable Spell Power due to Archetype mechanics. So it has to be your Second Bloodline mythic ability choice).


- The new(er) Corruptor Mythic Ability is a huge game changing deal for CC in Wotr, making it more along the lines of Kingmaker. This allows us to use the likes of Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill etc. on anything and everything from undead, demons, and bosses as our poisons etc. now bypass all immunity and resistance. We can basically disable enemies any which way we want or at least butter them up with poison/disease debuffs. Grease vs. Reflex saves, Stinking Cloud vs. Fortitude, Mind Effecting Spells vs. Will. Fort and Reflex are much lower then willpower on enemies, so they don't need a lot of help to get going. Hell I can Grease most enemies with my "Cantrip" Grease lol.


- I take Best Jokes at Mythic Level 5 which seems to be about the perfect time when your DCs get high enough for it to land regularly.


- As Trickster I abuse "Completely Normal Spell" metamagic, Heighten magic and Enduring Spells of course (note that when lowering a spell by one this enables Aracne Bloodline Arcana +1 DC for metamagic spells). I can knock down all my spells 1 level and all my level 1 spells become cantrips. Leaving tons of rooms for level 1, level 2 spells (like Hideous Laughter which has 40ish more or less effective DC even at level 1 casts).

Obviously I never run out of spells to cast. :D


It could be played on unfair I believe, as I did so through a non campaign DLC Inevitable Excess run. That was before Corruptor, Arcane Spirit/Ambuscading Spell Feats.


By late game you can pre place tons of Grease because they're unlimited, throw up a stinking cloud or two + Mind Fog, start the fight, then cast a low to high end Hideous laughter to truly disable everything. And/Or Feeblemind tough intelligent casters to disable their ownage.


Anyways here's the long detailed version I posted in the builds section as a replacement fix, for a pre release borked Nine Tailed Kitsune build I didn't update for years, but saw people still trying to use it. So this was the result and includes all enchantment items and their locations for such CC builds:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/5/4845399746422979824/

interesting, should have considered as azata potentially buffing summons. I didnt see that corruptor mythic will check it out thanks.

[Fistimus Maximus]

I am already aware of the power of grease, its how I beat Zacharias ( lost chapel) on unfair, Greased waited for it to work them started dialogue and charge with new griffon grapple/dog takedown.

[Soul]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Fistimus Maximus:

Hmm was tempted to instead of ray put those feats into buffing illusion for instant kills, will save on touch feats and fit more with a fey character theme wise. Issue I have is if I should do the recommend 5 loremaster for greater command. Is it required since hideous got buffed? or still a must against bosses which are immune to mind effecting?

you dont need to take 5 levels of loremaster for just greater command.... just reach your normal level where you can access 5th level spells then take loremaster cleric spell.... you'll be able to pick up to 5th level spells which is what greater command is....

which I qualify for since I take elemental bloodline and can gain knowledge arcana through level 7 bloodline feat for free...

also have to do a 1 level dip if your certain elemental and dragon bloodline combinations due to bug.... like air elemental and blue dragon.... if you have both 20th level capstones of those then you'll be immune to your own energy conversion and lose the ability to convert spells into electricity....

so my build I just loose 20th level features only.... still get everything thing else tied to bloodlines....

still I think greater command is worth it.... like I said I build my sorcerer to be versatile.... and having a spell that covers an area where im weak to helps boost my utility..... come across enemies that are immune to mind affecting spells and you got a backup for CC in case you need it....

enemy has low will... toss overwhelming grief at them
enemy has low reflex.... icy prison
enemy has low fort and will.... phantasmal killer
enemy immune to mind affecting.... greater command
enemy has high will.... mind fog, followed by another will saving throw spell
enemy a spellcaster... feeblemind to shut down their spells for the whole fight... trivializes some boss fights

also gearing for enchantment can make your illusions a bit stronger.... plus mind fog can lower enemies will saves....

but basically you got phantasmal killer and weird that are 1 turn KO from illusion for enemies that have low will and fort saves....

could also have backup in case those are high.... icy prison and wracking ray for instance.... icy prison is reflex save or become paralyzed.... hit a paralyzed enemy with wracking ray and it kills them

[Soul]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Fistimus Maximus:

I am already aware of the power of grease, its how I beat Zacharias ( lost chapel) on unfair, Greased waited for it to work them started dialogue and charge with new griffon grapple/dog takedown.

lol.... I totally abuse grease early game... tavern fight especially.... plop selective grease at all entry points before the fight....

the spell lasts 1 min per level so plenty of time to go out and place them down alongside selective web to slow the ones who may pass or trap em.... then go back inside and trigger the event with Irabeth and all enemies who enter have to make reflex saves soon as they spawn in...

[Balekai]

Just for everyone's information:

After posting above I decided to play around with Wotr a bit, and found I wasn't actually getting any change from Expanded Arsenal: Enchantment" in my build.

After hours of testing and repeccing I figured it out lol.

There's a bug with Arcane Sorcerer Bloodline's "School Power: (School)" class feature at level 15, and "Expanded Arsenal: (School)" not working correctly together when of the same spell school.

They either conflict or do not stack.

That means you want to avoid expanding to the school you have chosen for School Power at level 15. So Spell Focus Enchantment --> Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment --> School Power: Enchantment at level 15 ---> Mythic Spell Focus: Enchantment --> Expanded Arsenal: Conjuration for a more optimal result. Unless you are ok with respecing or messing around with Toy Box Party editor to change spell focus from conjuration to enchantment later. :)

Added notes to by build link and will edit the above post to mention the bug/conflict. :)

[Fistimus Maximus]

Near the end of act 3 and the build as starting popping off, Wish I didnt do 1 dip into loremaster for Halt as its dc is less that hideous laughter and only enemy ive come across that halt was useable when laughter wasnt was the swarms from cullington or whatever the village is called for ulbrigs quest