First playthrough

[Ignis Imperia]

Hey, so, I remember trying this game out in the past shortly and just kind of resigning in character creation because it just felt too much, I now played a few more CRPGs and am halfway towards finishing Rogue Trader for the first time, so I'd like to give this one another go..

My question is what difficulty is generally recommended for first playthrough with 0 knowledge of pathfinder system and whether it's possible to actually finish this game without obscene amount of quicksaving-quickloading without watching guides/following other people's builds on normal/core difficulty, just learning on the go..

[Schlumpsha]

It is no shame to start out with Easy. Once you feel more confident and gained familiarity with how the ruleset works you can still tune the difficult up to Normal.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

My question is what difficulty is generally recommended for first playthrough with 0 knowledge of pathfinder system and whether it's possible to actually finish this game without obscene amount of quicksaving-quickloading without watching guides/following other people's builds on normal/core difficulty, just learning on the go..

On core definitiley no. On normal I'd say it is

[Myth Alric]

You probably want to start on easy then raise the difficulty up later on. This game has one really nice feature, which is that you can change the difficulty any time you want, so you can bump it up if it feels to easy.

The reason I recommend starting easy, is because pathfinder(and most versions of d&d) has a huge flaw, that characters start out with basically no health. It doesn't actually matter how good you are, even if you are a pro and beat the game 30 times you can still die to a random roll at level 1, since basically every enemy in the game can one hit kill you at level one, if they roll a critical hit.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

The reason I recommend starting easy, is because pathfinder(and most versions of d&d) has a huge flaw, that characters start out with basically no health. It doesn't actually matter how good you are, even if you are a pro and beat the game 30 times you can still die to a random roll at level 1, since basically every enemy in the game can one hit kill you at level one, if they roll a critical hit.

As a pro you let Anevia tank and take no hit at level 1

more seriously, I agree

[Razer]

Even on normal mode you'll find yourself "savc scumming" if you're new. It all depends on the kind of experience you're looking for. If you don't want excessive try tactic ABC - XYZ to get it done, but just experience the story and combat in a comfortable way. Then start at lower difficulty. If you want to push yourself and keep trying and don't mind dying over and over then start higher. It's about what you want to get out of it. Not how others play it.

The game has punishing enemy types regardless of difficulty. But at lower difficulty their stats are lower and there will be fewer of them.

You can change the difficulty while playing so if you find yourself playing and it's too easy you can bump up the difficulty.

[Draken]

It depends a bit on how good you are with this sort of games.
If you are doing fine in Rogue Trader, I think you might be ok on normal.

You definitely want to read all the tooltips and learn the system. If it's too hard you can always lower the difficulty later.

Oh, in this system buffs are king, especially in the later stages of the game. Something to keep in mind. If things start getting to difficult, you might want to look into how to buff properly.

Also a lot of fights are more akin to puzzels that require specific solutions. If you run into an sudden unreasonable difficult enemy, try looking at their stats and figure out what they are weak against.

[Niklasbane(PM)]

Play on easy or normal, probably easy. The way the game works and the way they've approached difficulty means that "more difficult" in this game boils down to being able to do everything at the right time and relying on RNG not to unavoidably screw you. (Which it will even when you're stacking odds in your favour knowingly)

Absolutely don't play on core until you know the game more or less inside out.
At that point you literally can't get through it unless you know everything that's coming before it arrives and you're good at playing the game.

There are parts that are actually impossible on core unless you know exactly how to exploit a mechanic and go into it fully prepared to do so.

[Finrod]

The Core name seemed to me a little trap, as it suggests to some players that this is the standard difficulty, when it is not. Core (and above) requires an extensive knowledge of the game and good min maxing.
Daring is like core but with less ennemies, so not too recommended unless you really want some challenge.

My recommendation is normal, besides, normal and below allow respec if you botched the build of a character. (Another reason to avoid daring and above... I don't remember if a mod allows respec at those difficulties)
(Anyways I would look for a guide to help build the characters)
And if normal is too difficult, you can always lower to easy

[Draken]

Originally posted by Finrod:

The Core name seemed to me a little trap, as it suggests to some players that this is the standard difficulty, when it is not. Core (and above) requires an extensive knowledge of the game and good min maxing.
Daring is like core but with less ennemies, so not too recommended unless you really want some challenge.

My recommendation is normal, besides, normal and below allow respec if you botched the build of a character. (Another reason to avoid daring and above... I don't remember if a mod allows respec at those difficulties)
(Anyways I would look for a guide to help build the characters)
And if normal is too difficult, you can always lower to easy

Core has a bright red warning that it's only for those that know what they are doing. So if it's a trap, it's for those who don't read. :D
I think Core just means "as close as possible to the core pathfinder module experience".

[Chan]

Originally posted by Draken:

Originally posted by Finrod:

The Core name seemed to me a little trap, as it suggests to some players that this is the standard difficulty, when it is not. Core (and above) requires an extensive knowledge of the game and good min maxing.
Daring is like core but with less ennemies, so not too recommended unless you really want some challenge.

My recommendation is normal, besides, normal and below allow respec if you botched the build of a character. (Another reason to avoid daring and above... I don't remember if a mod allows respec at those difficulties)
(Anyways I would look for a guide to help build the characters)
And if normal is too difficult, you can always lower to easy

Core has a bright red warning that it's only for those that know what they are doing. So if it's a trap, it's for those who don't read. :D
I think Core just means "as close as possible to the core pathfinder module experience".

And that's why most people stop playing this game and others like it. They don't read unfortunately.

[Draken]

Originally posted by Chan:

Originally posted by Draken:

Core has a bright red warning that it's only for those that know what they are doing. So if it's a trap, it's for those who don't read. :D
I think Core just means "as close as possible to the core pathfinder module experience".

And that's why most people stop playing this game and others like it. They don't read unfortunately.

To be fair, if you play something like Pathfinder, you have to read. You wouldn't have gotten far even if the core difficulty was labeled "Too hard for beginners".

Playing Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous without actually reading is going to go about as well as playing Factorio by crafting everything by hand. I don't think you will get far, even on normal difficulty.

Maybe those people need a voice over for the tooltips? /sarc

[Vertigo]

There is nothing wrong with starting on easy, or adjusting the difficulty settings as you play. It is a lot to learn, but you sound like you have a grasp of basic RPG concepts (which is what you need). The game can be cheap and broadside you at times.

I wouldn't worry about builds as you can run single class builds on Core and do fine. If you are interested in how classes work as they level, the Midnight Isles standalone expansion lets you run low level characters to give a feel if a class does what you want it to.

There is no right way to play the game as long as you are having fun.

[jonnin]

it heavily depends on you .. how much oldschool D&D or pathfinder you know, any experience in similar systems or games, how much challenge you want, and similar themes.

For me, I find that the default settings are a mess. The easier settings, instead of just scaling, have a lot of greatly reduced consequence and effects, like fewer monsters with reduced abilities or reduced critical hits or being cured of enduring problems by sleeping or making it much harder to kill your team (if hurt too badly, they still don't die!). Also the names of the difficulties are misleading... core, which should be "normal" because it has no reductions to enemy forces and very few upgrades to them, is far, far too brutal for beginners. What they call normal has a number of things weakening enemy and giving an edge to the players, which is weird (almost every other game I have played, normal means the settings favor neither the computer enemies nor the player).

I am not sure that the 'training wheels' are teaching you anything about how to play better.

That said I recommend you set the game to core difficulty (to get a starting point) and then click custom and degrade the difficulty to your level. Mostly by setting the monster damage to your team (from 1.0 to say 0.5) and the monster difficulty drop down (to NO HIGHER than moderately weaker enemy, and first time, you may take it all the way down here even).

This approach keeps the difficult rules and settings that make it "hard" for even experienced players (eg you die when you die, monsters have their full abilities, you have the same number of enemy in fights, etc) but your team can HIT the enemy without knowing every possible bonus to hit, and kill them without having maxed out every possible damage point that can be squeezed from a build, etc. You can change these settings on the fly in game, and with just those 2 settings experience most of the game's challenges without any watering down, yet still face enemy that are easily killed, even by a novice.

One thing that I would review are the companions, so you know what your team will look like as you narrow down the classes. You can of course make anything work, but keep in mind you are not just making one character, but in short order, you will be building a team from some 6-8 other people you find.

Opinions vary, but see what you think?

[Ignis Imperia]

In general my experience with CRPGs can be summarized as
- Played BG3 twice on Tactician (never actually played it below that), up to end of act 1 in Honor
- Played DOS2 through act 1 multiple times on Tactician, finished act 2 on tactician once, never finished the game, keep getting distracted
- Currently playing Rogue Trader on Normal (don't feel like upping the difficulty mid-run since act 3 had some challenging fights) and generally I finish the fights in round 2-3

Outside CRPGs I played many RPGs and some ARPGs, no TRPGs. Tabletop DND or PF I never played. Only DND system I have faintest experience with is 5E and even there I would say "very limited" because BG3 homebrews a lot of it.

I don't generally in games struggle with highest difficulties, but Rogue Trader I went Normal because I know Owlcat games are known for having ridiculous amounts of mechanics compared to average CRPG and I assumed there would be no way for me to keep up immediately, so I used Normal to give the game a fair chance on the supposedly base difficulty.

So far based on the replies in the thread, I think I'll attempt WotR on Normal as well, and keep it there for first playthrough, so that I can get proper feel for everything and then perhaps attempt Core with next one or even Unfair depending on how confident I am in my abilities.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by jonnin:

it heavily depends on you .. how much oldschool D&D or pathfinder you know, any experience in similar systems or games, how much challenge you want, and similar themes.

For me, I find that the default settings are a mess. The easier settings, instead of just scaling, have a lot of greatly reduced consequence and effects, like fewer monsters with reduced abilities or reduced critical hits or being cured of enduring problems by sleeping or making it much harder to kill your team (if hurt too badly, they still don't die!). Also the names of the difficulties are misleading... core, which should be "normal" because it has no reductions to enemy forces and very few upgrades to them, is far, far too brutal for beginners. What they call normal has a number of things weakening enemy and giving an edge to the players, which is weird (almost every other game I have played, normal means the settings favor neither the computer enemies nor the player).

I am not sure that the 'training wheels' are teaching you anything about how to play better.

That said I recommend you set the game to core difficulty (to get a starting point) and then click custom and degrade the difficulty to your level. Mostly by setting the monster damage to your team (from 1.0 to say 0.5) and the monster difficulty drop down (to NO HIGHER than moderately weaker enemy, and first time, you may take it all the way down here even).

This approach keeps the difficult rules and settings that make it "hard" for even experienced players (eg you die when you die, monsters have their full abilities, you have the same number of enemy in fights, etc) but your team can HIT the enemy without knowing every possible bonus to hit, and kill them without having maxed out every possible damage point that can be squeezed from a build, etc. You can change these settings on the fly in game, and with just those 2 settings experience most of the game's challenges without any watering down, yet still face enemy that are easily killed, even by a novice.

One thing that I would review are the companions, so you know what your team will look like as you narrow down the classes. You can of course make anything work, but keep in mind you are not just making one character, but in short order, you will be building a team from some 6-8 other people you find.

Opinions vary, but see what you think?

In general my usual approach to games tends to be setting them at highest difficulty and seeing if I can use the fact all odds are stacked against me to improve at a rapid pace, issue is I do not think this approach entirely works with PF/DND systems because of 2 factors:

1.) there are way too many systems for you to rapidly pick up and master, that instead of learning from every mistake, you're just stood there like "What the fk just happened" for next 10 minutes and the answer generally is "Like 5 different things", ergo I found especially with Rogue Trader that it pays to go a bit lower on difficulty and just experience several systems at a time, try to understand them and how to connect them, then move on to the next, that way if something goes wrong, it generally is one thing that gone wrong, not 5, and that is easy to analyze. Not to mention on lower difficulties if you are skilled at analyzing your mistakes or potential mistakes, you generally catch them before they happen.

2.) Dice system. You cannot outskill dice. If dice decides you critically fail 10 times in a row, you critically fail 10 times in a row and learn nothing from your death because it was not your fault. For this reason I generally stay away from highest difficulty in CRPGs, as what they tend to do is up the AC of enemies, which even in easy game such as BG3 resulted in some really uncomfortable encounters (certain act 3 bosses at 30AC etc.), and there you will die a lot to just not knowing how to stack every buff in your favor and even then, quite likely, to RNG.

As I mentioned above, I think I'll try normal, maybe adjust it so it doesn't let me get away with everything, and try to finish the game once, if it works out well or I feel it's a bit too easy halfway through, I'll up it to say Core or Unfair when I already know how to play and start from beginning to make sure I can actually handle that difficulty all the way.