This game is too freaking long!

[CaimDark]

And not in a good way, someething I never thought I'd say about a cRPG. It really does have a quantity over quality approach. I burned out in act IV in my first playthrough over 2 years ago, and the crusade management was a big part of that. That thing eats easily dozens upon dozens of hours without you even realizing it.

Now I'm trying again, made it to act 5, thanks to cheating the crusade with toybox and Combat Relief, but even so it's still a huge time sink. And autocrusade mode, unfortunately, is pretty horrible from what I hear, so poorly implemented that you even get quests you can't complete and they just linger forever on your journal, taunting you.

There's so much greatness in this game, I hope Owlcat makes some adjustements for the sequel, they could really make an all-time great with the right focus.

[Schlumpsha]

You can scratch of a couple hours off just by going RtwP.

Auto crusade is really not all that bad either. Only thing worth talking about are the missing teleportation circles. The missing crusade artefacts are negletable, if it's one thing the game had in abundance it's magical trinkets. The quests are things only relevant to the secret ending. Which the auto crusade disables anyway.

No sequels are coming though. The Adventure Path is done. Future Pathfinder games by Owlcat, if any, will be about different Adventure Paths unrelated to both Kingmaker and WotR.

[CaimDark]

I do play Real Time for the regular encounters that I can simply click attack anyways, switch to TB for important battles. I heard autocrusade locks you out of several quests and even some companion quests, gives you quests you can't complete and the ending assumes you've failed the crusade.

I'm unfamiliar with the source materlal, what do you mean by The Adventure Path is done? Regardless, when I said "sequel" I just meant another Pathfinder game, not necessarily a direct sequel. WotR is barely a sequel to Kingmaker beyond vague nods to previous events. It could completely ignore Kingmaker and it would have made no difference.

[Schlumpsha]

Auto crusade has no effect on companion quests. Or the mythic path quests for that matter. Only the crusade management quests (reach rank X in subject Y by the time of Z, ect.) are affected for obvious reasons. But again, it's really no issue unless you want the secret ending.

Wrath of the Righteous was originally a Adventure Path for tabletop Pathfinder, spanning over 6 campaign books. Owlcat used it as a base to create their video game adaption of it. Same story with Kingmaker for that matter. All Adventure Paths are strictly standalone stories. Often playing in vastly different corners of the continent, or the planet at large.

[Johnny 5]

yeah i burnt out in the abyss place. You are spot on with the quality over quantity. Look at the writing later in the game, it takes a nose dive

[Vertigo]

The game definitely has a lot of filler, and you are talking through someone who has finished the game from start to finish 6 times (and done all but 3 of the mythic paths). RtwP will help you through a majority of the trash mobs. Either auto crusade or setting to easy also helps shave off time.

I feel Act 4 is a great idea that loses a lot of its novelty with subsequent playthroughs. Then again, a lot of the game's content (ex: the crusade map) remains entirely the same across playthroughs with nothing to make it fresh.

[Stan]

I like getting my money worth for a change, actually a steal.

[pete3great]

To me, complaining that an RPG is too long is like complaining a first-person shooter has too many guns or a strategy game has too much micromanagement. If you don't like long games that's fine, but accept it's part of this particular genre.

[Fuinril]

You gain a lot of time when you know where to go at what moment, especially in act IV.

You also gain much time when you have a strong build and are able to breeze through 95% of the fights without even looking (only fights I did manually in act IV were the mephit, the secret fight, end boss of midnight isles and the dragon - on insane).

Crusade mode is a drag, no arguing about that.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

The game definitely has a lot of filler, and you are talking through someone who has finished the game from start to finish 6 times (and done all but 3 of the mythic paths). RtwP will help you through a majority of the trash mobs. Either auto crusade or setting to easy also helps shave off time.

I feel Act 4 is a great idea that loses a lot of its novelty with subsequent playthroughs. Then again, a lot of the game's content (ex: the crusade map) remains entirely the same across playthroughs with nothing to make it fresh.

Respect! I'd love to see some of the other mythic paths, Aeon/Demon/Azata in particular, but there's no way I can't make time for multiple playthrough unless I play nothing else for the rest of my life lol. And I haven't even played Baldurs Gate 3 yet! Maybe I'll look for the story of the other paths on youtube.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by pete3great:

To me, complaining that an RPG is too long is like complaining a first-person shooter has too many guns or a strategy game has too much micromanagement. If you don't like long games that's fine, but accept it's part of this particular genre.

I love the classic cRPGs this game is based on. None of them feel too long because they don't overstay their welcome or lose focus with half-baked mechanics and modes.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by CaimDark:

I love the classic cRPGs this game is based on. None of them feel too long because they don't overstay their welcome or lose focus with half-baked mechanics and modes.

And there is the real issue. It's more the quality of some of the content that makes things feel "too long." Wrath does a lot well and offers a lot of variety for players (which I would argue where most content comes from). It simultaneously has areas that feel like filler, and there is an overabundance of trash mobs.

Wrath certainly had some parts I thought were a slog on subsequent playthroughs.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

Originally posted by CaimDark:

I love the classic cRPGs this game is based on. None of them feel too long because they don't overstay their welcome or lose focus with half-baked mechanics and modes.

And there is the real issue. It's more the quality of some of the content that makes things feel "too long." Wrath does a lot well and offers a lot of variety for players (which I would argue where most content comes from). It simultaneously has areas that feel like filler, and there is an overabundance of trash mobs.

Wrath certainly had some parts I thought were a slog on subsequent playthroughs.

Pretty much, If There's another Pathfinder game, I'd love if Owlcat took a more focused approach. Ditching RtwP and going all-in on TB is also something I think would significantly improve it.

On the face of it, nothing changes, right, because we already have a TB option. But designing the game around turn based combat changes everything. It's one thing to have a throw-away TB toggle. and quite another to design an entirely turn-based game, and thus, by design, every encounter has to be more meaningful. Drowning players in pointless trash mobs in a turn based game is a quick way to lose them.

[PrimusNephilim]

Originally posted by CaimDark:

This game is too freaking long!

Couldn't disagree with you more, the length of the game is just fine, nice to play a game that doesn't finish out in 40 hours. Wish other developers would put this kind of effort into their games.

[leyasu888]

I really disagree with you on the idea that the game is too long. Personally i feel the game is too short. You can visibly see that the end of the game was really rushed. I suspect the devs ran out of time to polish the ending of the game and had to get the game ready to be released. Hence the rushed feeling of Act 5 and 6.

Also don't agree with the game being only TB. I love the RTwP aspect of the game.
If anything TB only would make the game even longer which is your complaint in the OP.
Personally i feel TB only would turn the game into a tactics game like Xcom and FF tactics instead of a CRPG like BG and BG2.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by Johnny 5:

yeah i burnt out in the abyss place. You are spot on with the quality over quantity. Look at the writing later in the game, it takes a nose dive

Especially the alignment dialogues, many are just dumb, and don't even make sense much of the time. For example, Seelah is a paladin with a sense of humor and a heart, and why not, but I can't say anything even remotely similar to how she behaves without a "chaotic" brand. I could go on and on.