Spell Resistance doesn't make sense

[76561198068073832]

Hello, so the Spell resistance is only impacted by your level and the dice roll? Following logic, I was sure something like Wisdom would play a role and was very disappointed that this is not the case.
So I can be a very powerful mage and yet constantly fail to break through the enemy's spell resistance of say a dumb brute with no wisdom at all?

[canuck250]

there are feats (spell pen, greater spell pan and mythic spell pen), a race gets a bonus (elf), items. Lots of ways!

But early game, grease is the best spell and glitterdust is nice, as you do not have all the feats needed to land your offensive spells, so you start out more support then shift into the powerhouse the later the game goes.

Even dumb brutes are smart enough to put of fire retardant clothes time to time ;)

[hilburnashua]

Very few creatures in a Pathfinder adventure normally have spell resistance at the lower levels. But WotR major enemy is demons and those do, it's why many people recommend taking spell penetration early for offensive casters. Now, most of the thugs you encounter, like cultists, won't have spell resistance.

However, there is a second way opponents can resist spells. The vast majority of spells that you try to effect opponents with with have a saving throw. Each spell will tell you what kind of saving throw it is, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. Depending on the spell, if the opponent succeeds in a save vs that spell they will either take half damage or completely resist the spell (typically, there are exceptions). These spells with a saving throw do have their DC (the saving throw) increased by your casting ability (sounds like Wisdom in your character's case, different classes have different casting abilities but are typically limited to Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma. Kineticists are the odd ducks),

[Immortal Reaver]

Spell Resistance does not have anything to do with Wisdom. It is a special defensive ability that makes spell fail to even do anything.

Wisdom is part of Will save and target uses Will save to resist the effects that affect mind.

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Spell Resistance does not have anything to do with Wisdom. It is a special defensive ability that makes spell fail to even do anything.

Wisdom is part of Will save and target uses Will save to resist the effects that affect mind.

I think he is a Wisdom based caster and he assumed that his wisdom bonus would be added to the roll for spell penetration.

[Yard]

no, spell resistance is affected by many factors
Think of it this way, a powerful magician who transmutes enemies into dogs can only achieve that feat on enemies with a weak will, say someone in depression or who had mental problems, in short the magician is able to enter their mind and transform it, but in the game all the enemies are different, some will have a stronger will than others, the same happens in real life, not everyone has the same will to resist mental attacks and it is reflected in the game

Although there are still many ways to overcome spell resistance and one of those is metamagic.

[Dingus]

Originally posted by Yard:

no, spell resistance is affected by many factors
Think of it this way, a powerful magician who transmutes enemies into dogs can only achieve that feat on enemies with a weak will, say someone in depression or who had mental problems, in short the magician is able to enter their mind and transform it, but in the game all the enemies are different, some will have a stronger will than others, the same happens in real life, not everyone has the same will to resist mental attacks and it is reflected in the game

Although there are still many ways to overcome spell resistance and one of those is metamagic.

You're thinking of spell DCs/saves. Spell resistance is an additional defense on top of that.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Yard:

no, spell resistance is affected by many factors
Think of it this way, a powerful magician who transmutes enemies into dogs can only achieve that feat on enemies with a weak will, say someone in depression or who had mental problems, in short the magician is able to enter their mind and transform it, but in the game all the enemies are different, some will have a stronger will than others, the same happens in real life, not everyone has the same will to resist mental attacks and it is reflected in the game

Although there are still many ways to overcome spell resistance and one of those is metamagic.

That's not spell resistance, that's will saving throw.
Spell resistance an inherent antimagic property. It's independant from willpower or physical prowess. You don't even need to be aware of a spell targeting you for the spell to fail. It's like a shield around you blocking magical energy.

This is why when casting a mental spell, you first need to overcome spell resistance and then break the will saving throw, those are 2 different checks.

That's why the spell penetration formula is 1d20+caster level. Because it's only the strength of the source of your magic powers that come into play.

It's the same for dispeling effects, like with remove curse, banishing outsiders and dispel magic, caster level on comes into play, not the caster stat.

[Realm Walker]

I think about spell resistance as a sort of power measure: The more powerfull you are in certain things - whatever this may be - the higher your resistance to spells; like a forcefield of sorts that blocks magic.
Maybe this tells us something about the nature of magic?

[Warbird]

Originally posted by talemore:

It's bad since it's a spell tax

It means you will need to spam a spell over again since all spell resistance do is making you throw a dice to see if you even is allowed to use the spell. All spells with spell resistance are spells who they don't want people to use as example sleep already has a hard restrict on HD(level)

Solution to spell resistance is to have whole party casting one spell over again and why in the end if you use a spell with resistance you not going to use any other spells since you'll need to cast this spell 3-5 times

It's home brew rule who was never needed as spells already has HD(level) limit.

It's a stupid - tax

For anyone who uses a spell with spell resistance.

They couldn't justify removing the spells likewise why the players should be allowed to use them

And yet AGAIN, you are wrong.

Spell Resistance is no different than Armor Class against magic and it will mostly affect multiclass characters that have low spell power. The same way characters with low BAB have a harder time scoring hits.

It is fair and if your character really is a full-time spellcaster, it is really easy to break spell resistance, especially with Spell Penetration feats.

It is good balancing and it works BOTH way.

*ewww* Why am I even talkin to you...

[𝑨𝖕𝖍𝖎𝖔𝖓]

Originally posted by Warbird:

And yet AGAIN, you are wrong.

Spell Resistance is no different than Armor Class against magic and it will mostly affect multiclass characters that have low spell power. The same way characters with low BAB have a harder time scoring hits.

It is fair and if your character really is a full-time spellcaster, it is really easy to break spell resistance, especially with Spell Penetration feats.

It is good balancing and it works BOTH way.

*ewww* Why am I even talkin to you...

You have it right. I think anyone familiar with D&D or Pathfinder would know what SR is. It is not a homebrew rule although both D&D and Pathfinder both have plenty of them since it is based on a tabletop + pen and paper game to begin with.

@OP:
Here is the SRD / TT / PnP Books definition along with other things associated which might be helpful or not:
Spell Resistance[www.d20pfsrd.com]

Plenty of other definitions of rules there if you browse around. Any character who specializes is going to be better and thats a metric most games will reward you for. Things like Spell Penetration and successor feats- Improved etc.

Most things in-game have tooltips to explain if you hover your mouse pointer/cursor/arrow over highlighted / colored words in conversations or in many places on your character sheet and in character creation.

[𝑨𝖕𝖍𝖎𝖔𝖓]

Originally posted by talemore:

Originally posted by 𝑨𝖕𝖍𝖎𝖔𝖓:

You have it right. I think anyone familiar with D&D or Pathfinder would know what SR is. It is not a homebrew rule although both D&D and Pathfinder both have plenty of them since it is based on a tabletop + pen and paper game to begin with.

@OP:
Here is the SRD / TT / PnP Books definition along with others things associated which might be helpful or not:
Spell Resistance[www.d20pfsrd.com]

Plenty of other definitions of rules there if you browse around. Any character who specializes is going to be better and thats a metric most games will reward you for. Things like Spell Penetration and successor feats- Improved etc.

Most things in-game have tooltips to explain if you hover your mouse pointer/cursor/arrow over highlighted / colored words in conversations or in many places on your character sheet and in character creation.

You like it. that some spells are not used because of spell resistance. But it is homebrew.

You add something that is tested. Then you add another and another.

Spell resistance is new and hasn't been around all the time since it had never been a need of such rule.

Spell reistance has no way for the player to easy counter. It is just there with no explanation on how to counter it than using feats who are another tax. A feat - tax for using the forbidden spells.

It isnt homebrew, just as it isnt a tax either since not every creature has it- just many in this game, and SR has been around a very long time- not only in DnD but also in Pathfinder since its inception. Go verify for yourself. You just seem to want to just post incorrect nonsense anyway.

SRD[www.google.com] = System Reference Document (SRD) which are the base rulebooks these games are based on.

The definition is the same for D&D. Feats are one way to specialize but there are even items to help you overcome SR- that is ignoring the part that passing it is based on your caster levels in a classes spellcasting to begin with.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by talemore:

Spell resistance is new and hasn't been around all the time since it had never been a need of such rule.

You are right, if by "new" you mean in the game from the very beginning. Pathfinder has always had spell resistance. And D&D (which Pathfinder is copied from) has always had spell resistance, though in the beginning it was called magic resistance instead.

[Soul]

Originally posted by Cryos_Feron:

Hello, so the Spell resistance is only impacted by your level and the dice roll? Following logic, I was sure something like Wisdom would play a role and was very disappointed that this is not the case.
So I can be a very powerful mage and yet constantly fail to break through the enemy's spell resistance of say a dumb brute with no wisdom at all?

actually it can get higher than that.... its 1d20 + caster level + spell penetration buffs.... so having gear or feats that increase caster level and spell penetration stack....

so lets say you just got into chapter 3.... and your level 10.... by that point you could have bought in Act 2 robes from woljiff that give +2 to spell pen.... and the covenant of the inheritor trinket that gives untyped +2 to spell pen (doesnt show on spellbook but its aura works)... 2 spell penetration feats giving +4 total.... and in Act 3 you could buy goggles of pure sight for a +1 bonus to spell penetration.... and ring of pyromania for a +2 to spell penetration....

so before you leave drezen and start questing in Act 3 with all those combined.... you would have level 10 caster level + 2 robes + 2 trinket + 4 both spell pen feats + 2 ring + 1 goggles = 21 spell penetration..... so you'd be rolling 1d20 + 21 to hit spell resistance... so somewhere between 22 to 41 range you could hit...

[Soul]

which in Act 3 one particular encounter is against a dragon... with 30 spell resistance.... and its touch AC is 3..... yeah.... 3.... meaning you'd have to do the spell resistance check to have your spell work if it requires a spell resistance check... and in the case I pointed out above if you went and tried it at level 10 you'd have to roll 9 to hit with spell.... and the touch AC you'd only miss on a natural 1....

meanwhile its normal AC is like 36.... your non casters have a higher threshold to even hit it... not to mention that thare actually are some spells like snowball that dont require a spell resistance check and you could just straight up roll only against their measly 3 touch AC....