How the Heck do You Deal with a Tick Swarm...

[Antearz]

Seriously. Whats the Counter to this.
Usually a Fireball or some Alchemist Fire/Acid Flasks work against Swarms.
But the Tick Swarms just dont give a Crab.
It needs 3-4 Fireballs to Kill ONE Tick Swarm. And there is like 10 in that Cave.
They dont even care about Grenades. And they do 1-4 Constitution Damage so they Kill anyone in 5-10 Hits regardless of any HP or Defense.

This is Stupid beyond anything. And they dont even freaking give any Decent Exp or Loot for Heavens Sake.
So whats the Easy Counter to these ???
What am I missing that this supposed Trashmob is causing so much Trouble.

[Deo]

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

I had to basicly expend my whole spells and stuff on just 3 of these Swarms.

You had to. I did not. Killed them with just Bane of Spirit ring and basic attacks, and 1 Haste scroll (30 sec). All it took. It's an easy way.

There is no time limit, you can rest as much as you feel needed.

On bosses you spend all spells, all tools you have at your disposal. Soon you will meet enemies with 60 AC, 70 AC, 80 AC. It will be fun.

It's not BG3 where you faceroll on your keyboard and kill everything in sight.

Also, Tick is indeed a trash mob, and killed in seconds. Blightmaw has not only Mirror Image and Blur, but also 49 AC and 31 spell resistance on top. Can't even compare those.

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door .//slayer:

How the Crab is a frigging Tick Swarm a Bigger Threat than the Brightclaw Demon in Drezen ????

They aren't - they just require a different approach from what you were used to before that point. Now you've adapted, know what to expect and will hopefully have fewer issues with swarms in the future.

I did not Adapt at all.
As I said this is Problem.

I effectively had to Treat this like a Boss Fight and do a Full Buffup Depleting pretty much all my Spells and Ressources for 3 of these Swarms.
This is not Adapted. This is I Bruteforced this Encounter by Basicly treating this Stupid little Tick like I was Fighting a Frigging Boss Demon.



But well.
I can See from the Answers I got that this is not an Issue of me not knowing how to Deal with this.
Its an Issue of Game Balance.

What You Guys are Telling me is basicly "Yes. These Tick Swarms are Basicly Stronger than Brightclaw Demon... "

Frankly.
I have a Feeling that if You Threw these 3 Tick Swarms against Brightclaw. They would Win Hands Down and likely Faster than me....


Adaption would be if it was like with the Wrights.
Where the Wrights are Super Powerful. But if You just put a Death Ward Spell On. They become entirely useless cause their Drain no Longer Works and they dont do any real Damage beyond that.
Thats Adaption.
A Difficult Enemy becomes Easy if You use the Right Method.

These Tick Swarms are not that.
There seems to be Literally no Easy Way to Defeat them.
Instead You need to have several very Powerful Spells and Bruteforce them like a Boss.



And Mate. 80 AC if the Enemy is not Immune to Normal Attacks is not a Problem.
Because You can Reduce AC.
Not to mention ITS A BOSS. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE A DIFFICULT FIGHT WHERE YOU EXPEND EVERYTHING!!!
But these Ticks are NOT A BOSS. Its not an Enemy where You are Supposed to need to Rest after each Fight.

[.//slayer]

Where the Wrights are Super Powerful. But if You just put a Death Ward Spell On. They become entirely useless cause their Drain no Longer Works and they dont do any real Damage beyond that.

And you can do that with swarms, too. Like I said in my first reply, undead immunities provide protection against stat drain, and there are both spells and items that grant you those. Or you can one-shot them with a dedicated mercenary, if you create one. Or kite and pepper them with arrows - they are not immune to physical damage.

There is a reason why I couldn't recall what fight you refer to - I didn't even register these swarms during my own playthroughs.

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door .//slayer:

Where the Wrights are Super Powerful. But if You just put a Death Ward Spell On. They become entirely useless cause their Drain no Longer Works and they dont do any real Damage beyond that.

And you can do that with swarms, too. Like I said in my first reply, undead immunities provide protection against stat drain, and there are both spells and items that grant you those. Or you can one-shot them with a dedicated mercenary, if you create one. Or kite and pepper them with arrows - they are not immune to physical damage.

There is a reason why I couldn't recall what fight you refer to - I didn't even register these swarms during my own playthroughs.

Sorry. But this doesnt even Compare.
There is a Big Difference between "Just use a lvl 2-3 Spell and they become Complete Pushover Enemies" and "Oh just Create a Character with Specific Traits which Costs 50.000 Gold which can then Kill the Swarms for You"

Heck. That kind of thing means they are Stronger than Literally any Boss because I sure as Hell never needed to Create a Specific Character for a Bossfight lol.


And You cant Kite in that Small Cave.

[Soul]

are you talking about Ashen Grotto?....

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door Soul:

are you talking about Ashen Grotto?....

Possible.
I went through the thing a Day or so Ago.
I did not Remember the Name of the Place. Just the Name of the Enemy which was "Tick Swarm"

So I dont know if it was that specific Cave.


Regardless.
Would You maybe happen to know an actually Easy Way to Deal with such Swarms ?

And No.
Creating a Specific Character to Deal with it by giving it a Specific Skillset or a Specific Unique Weapon. Is not an "Easy Way"
Neither is it an Easy Way to Buff Up for Defense and Fire Protection etc and Spam Fireballs with Maximize Rods etc.


If the only Advice You got is to Deal with it like I Deal with Bossfights then dont bother pls.
I am well Capable of just throwing everything I have at a Problem. I dont need any Advice for that.
Nor do I Intend to make a Lich Path Character or Create an Undead Mercenary or such Stuff just to Deal with one Encounter.


But if You happen to know an actually easy Way to Deal with these. Advice would be Welcome.
I mean Seriously. There has to be some Trick to this Right ????
It cant be that these things basicly need You to treat them like a Damn Bossfight.

[Deo]

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

Would You maybe happen to know an actually Easy Way to Deal with such Swarms ?

Bro, you are already trolling at this point.

You've been told, that first thing you need to do after claiming Drezen, is to craft Bane of Spirit from Phylactery of Stevanius the Rotten. That's it - your easy way to dead with Swarms.

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door Deo:

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

Would You maybe happen to know an actually Easy Way to Deal with such Swarms ?

Bro, you are already trolling at this point.

You've been told, that first thing you need to do after claiming Drezen, is to craft Bane of Spirit from Phylactery of Stevanius the Rotten. That's it - your easy way to dead with Swarms.

So Your "Easy" Solution.
Is to somehow Find a Unique Relic which I have no Idea where or how to get. Restore it to a specific Unique Item which I dont know about by using the Crusade Management. And then use that in whatever way it actually does something I dont know to deal with Swarms ??


No Offense. But are You Sure that its not You who is Trolling here ????
Have you Ever Considered that Maybe not everyone has Finished 2-3 Playthroughs in the Game and thus maybe not everyone knows about every Unique Item Location and how to get it or what they do ?????
Has the Tought ever Occured to You. That maybe. If this was my 5th Playthrough or something. And thus I already know every Single Encounter and Unique Item and where to Find them. I might not Ask such Questions ?????
Are You really that Thick ??????


Not to mention.
Even if I knew. This just doesnt Qualify as an Easy Method.
I mean what ?
So to Deal with a Standard Enemy I have to Find and Craft a Unique Item ????
And You dont find anything strange with that ???

[Soul]

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

Origineel geplaatst door Soul:

are you talking about Ashen Grotto?....

Possible.
I went through the thing a Day or so Ago.
I did not Remember the Name of the Place. Just the Name of the Enemy which was "Tick Swarm"

So I dont know if it was that specific Cave.


Regardless.
Would You maybe happen to know an actually Easy Way to Deal with such Swarms ?

And No.
Creating a Specific Character to Deal with it by giving it a Specific Skillset or a Specific Unique Weapon. Is not an "Easy Way"
Neither is it an Easy Way to Buff Up for Defense and Fire Protection etc and Spam Fireballs with Maximize Rods etc.


If the only Advice You got is to Deal with it like I Deal with Bossfights then dont bother pls.
I am well Capable of just throwing everything I have at a Problem. I dont need any Advice for that.
Nor do I Intend to make a Lich Path Character or Create an Undead Mercenary or such Stuff just to Deal with one Encounter.


But if You happen to know an actually easy Way to Deal with these. Advice would be Welcome.
I mean Seriously. There has to be some Trick to this Right ????
It cant be that these things basicly need You to treat them like a Damn Bossfight.

if its Ashen Grotto then I remember it being somewhat annoying with the giants mostly.... I find dealing with certain enemies in different game modes helps a lot.... swarms in particular I play in turn based mode.... dont remember what I did before last sarkorians DLC.... but afterwards in that cave i'd have Ulbrig and Aru with me... which would both have on swarmbane clasp amulet so they always deal full damage to swarms..... plus my sorcerer with metamagic rods.... i'd have 2 lesser empower rods and 1 lesser quicken rod by time starting chapter 3...

cant remember which spell specifically i'd use without knowing off the top of my head what their info sheet says.... but my sorcerer has magic missile, snowball, scorching ray, and lightning bolt at that point.... with metamagic feats selective, bolster, and empower learned.... not to mention dragons breath ability and elemental blast ability from draconic and elemental bloodlines... I know if the swarms arent killed and giants are aggro'd though that i'd usually pop a mastodon summon from mythic path and a selective web to keep the giants from reaching party till ive dealt with swarms...

of course I also have items like dwarven flask to summon if need be and Sosiel with his impossible domain abilities like guarded hearth to give me a boost if I think I need it... think by the time im finished with with that map anyways ima rest anyways so no need to worry about "saving" the big guns...

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door Soul:

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

Possible.
I went through the thing a Day or so Ago.
I did not Remember the Name of the Place. Just the Name of the Enemy which was "Tick Swarm"

So I dont know if it was that specific Cave.


Regardless.
Would You maybe happen to know an actually Easy Way to Deal with such Swarms ?

And No.
Creating a Specific Character to Deal with it by giving it a Specific Skillset or a Specific Unique Weapon. Is not an "Easy Way"
Neither is it an Easy Way to Buff Up for Defense and Fire Protection etc and Spam Fireballs with Maximize Rods etc.


If the only Advice You got is to Deal with it like I Deal with Bossfights then dont bother pls.
I am well Capable of just throwing everything I have at a Problem. I dont need any Advice for that.
Nor do I Intend to make a Lich Path Character or Create an Undead Mercenary or such Stuff just to Deal with one Encounter.


But if You happen to know an actually easy Way to Deal with these. Advice would be Welcome.
I mean Seriously. There has to be some Trick to this Right ????
It cant be that these things basicly need You to treat them like a Damn Bossfight.

if its Ashen Grotto then I remember it being somewhat annoying with the giants mostly.... I find dealing with certain enemies in different game modes helps a lot.... swarms in particular I play in turn based mode.... dont remember what I did before last sarkorians DLC.... but afterwards in that cave i'd have Ulbrig and Aru with me... which would both have on swarmbane clasp amulet so they always deal full damage to swarms..... plus my sorcerer with metamagic rods.... i'd have 2 lesser empower rods and 1 lesser quicken rod by time starting chapter 3...

cant remember which spell specifically i'd use without knowing off the top of my head what their info sheet says.... but my sorcerer has magic missile, snowball, scorching ray, and lightning bolt at that point.... with metamagic feats selective, bolster, and empower learned.... not to mention dragons breath ability and elemental blast ability from draconic and elemental bloodlines... I know if the swarms arent killed and giants are aggro'd though that i'd usually pop a mastodon summon from mythic path and a selective web to keep the giants from reaching party till ive dealt with swarms...

of course I also have items like dwarven flask to summon if need be and Sosiel with his impossible domain abilities like guarded hearth to give me a boost if I think I need it... think by the time im finished with with that map anyways ima rest anyways so no need to worry about "saving" the big guns...

So Basicly again just throw everything on it and have specific Builds and Unique stuff etc.
Yeah as I said.

So there is no Easy Way. These Tick Swarms are Basicly a Boss Encounter and these Ticks Wipe the Floor with most Boss Demons....

[Yard]

massive spells, enhanced with selective metamagic, so you don't suffer friendly fire and quickly clear everything

[Antearz]

Origineel geplaatst door Yard:

massive spells, enhanced with selective metamagic, so you don't suffer friendly fire and quickly clear everything

As said before.
Thats not an Easy Counter.

Easy Counter is stuff like
Oh its a Life Drain Ghost. Cast Death Ward and its Useless.
Oh its a Lightning Firing Wisp. Cast Protection from Lightning and You dont care.
Oh its an Encounter with one Strong Offensive Caster which however has no HP. Strike it First to Win Easily.

Thats Easy Counters.

Spending Several High Level Spells which on top are Prepared with several Metamagic Traits is not an Easy Counter lol.




But man.
I am Starting to See why this Game stands no Chance against Baldurs Gate.
This Game is not Difficult. Its just Annoyingly Unfair.

Basicly there is Tons of Encounters which Require a Specific or Extensive Strategy which You cannot Possibly know beforehand.
Hence there being no way to Deal with it Properly without knowing it First.

Its basicly like Old Difficult Arcade Games just Spawning Enemies behind You and You having no way to know about it or Counter it beforehand.
Thus being Forced to Replay and next time have a Unit Ready there to Counter the Spawn in Your Rear.

Same for the whole thing of Forcing everyone to Buff.
There is no Alternative to this whatsoever. You have to use the Buffs Route.
Anything else is just Bonus Stuff or stuff Required for Specific things.

Also Same with the whole Bullcrab of having Restoration etc. But then needing a Single Different Spell for Sickness, Blindness, Disease, Curse, Ability Damage etc etc etc.
Once more making sure that unless You know the Encounter already You cannot be Prepared Properly because You cannot prepare everything.



It ends up making the Game really Annoying for New Players. And Super Easy for Players which already Played Through it.
Because once You know all Encounters its no longer any Challenge as You always already know what counters you need and where to get the stuff and what feats to Take.
While anyone New cannot Possibly know this. And thus ends up Annnoyed by it.
Because Yeah sure. For someone who already Played the Game several times. Its easy. Because he knows ok. I should take this feat and get this Item because this encounter needs that and then before going to this place prepare this, that and these Spells.
But for anyone actually Playing this Blind this is just not Possible to Know. So it ends up being Stupid.


Baldurs Gate is not easier.
its just Fair. Its not making Encounters where Unless You know what it is beforehand and thus have Specific Spells prepared. You Lose.
Instead it always makes the Encounters so that there is several ways to Win them.

[Soul]

Origineel geplaatst door Antearz:

It ends up making the Game really Annoying for New Players. And Super Easy for Players which already Played Through it.
Because once You know all Encounters its no longer any Challenge as You always already know what counters you need and where to get the stuff and what feats to Take.
While anyone New cannot Possibly know this. And thus ends up Annnoyed by it.
Because Yeah sure. For someone who already Played the Game several times. Its easy. Because he knows ok. I should take this feat and get this Item because this encounter needs that and then before going to this place prepare this, that and these Spells.
But for anyone actually Playing this Blind this is just not Possible to Know. So it ends up being Stupid.

not really.... I mean I played tabletop DnD 3.5 back in the day so hopping into this game is familiar to me.... and I like playing sorcerers so I have to be extra careful with what spells to pick and avoid.... things like I mentioned in my earlier post were things that I just have naturally... its what I have going in in blind.... and I play with increased enemies on.... you seem hung up on the whole only bosses are "worthy" of pulling out the big guns.... in a game where you can wipe your party by just climbing a tree and failing an athletics check...

im actually quite conservative with my sorcerer too.... Drezen siege for instance both outside and inside I only rest 2 times total for whole event.... I dont spam spells left and right early game... and things like selective metamagic is so I can use my aoe spells without harming or hampering my companions when I need to plop it right at their feet.... and since early game I dont have many damaging spells I pick it up then to help my CC earlier... like selective grease and web... also like to give nenio early on enduring and greater enduring spells for 24 hour buffs... that way I can just buff and forget and not have to worry about timers to reapply buffs....

which this game could have been more brutal.... they give you a party of 6 characters total to run around with.... technically the whole game was designed originally to have 4 players maximum... so we're getting a handicap in a way...

but yeah... this game is pathfinder 1st edition rules... which is pretty much DnD 3.5 rules.... Baldurs gate is DnD 5th edition rules.... its designed to be easier.... though in my view not as fun.... spellcasters are nerfed in that game in my opinion at the cost of "balance".... look up chain lightning spell for instance from both and you'll see what I mean...

[.//slayer]

Because once You know all Encounters its no longer any Challenge as You always already know what counters you need and where to get the stuff and what feats to Take.
While anyone New cannot Possibly know this. And thus ends up Annnoyed by it.
Because Yeah sure. For someone who already Played the Game several times. Its easy. Because he knows ok. I should take this feat and get this Item because this encounter needs that and then before going to this place prepare this, that and these Spells.
But for anyone actually Playing this Blind this is just not Possible to Know. So it ends up being Stupid.

It's less about knowing the encounter and more about studying the ruleset - which is a daunting task at first, but all the answers and resources are available online for free, so there is no reason not to learn them eventually as you keep playing.

I don't find it annoying - and never did as I started my D&D journey decades ago. I think it's fun that there are multiple books worth of material, interactions and a certain floor of knowledge required before you can become proficient.

From the Steam threads created about difficulty, I notice that some people run into problems by not reading the spell descriptions carefully enough, and as such, they end up in situations where they don't know what to do or what causes the problem. Like the other week, someone posted a thread that their character was missing 20% of the time, without realizing that they used a Blink spell which induces a 20% miss chance on themselves. This info was right there in the game - all along.

Or consider your own example with status effects - you say that you need a different spell for Sickness, Blindness, Disease, Curse, Ability Damage and so on, but you can also remove them and other effects just as easily with a single Heal.

As a new player, you are in this sweet spot where you still learn the rules, so the game provides you with more challenge - and enjoyment that comes along with it. There is value in this - the value that veteran players cannot experience anymore.

[canuck250]

BG3 is fantastic for the multiple approach concept, but from a challenge standpoint, the game is lacking. That is why wotr stands very well on it's own beside bg3. Both are very different games that give you different things. If you like complex character builders and complex problems out in the world, wotr is for you. If you like less complicated systems and more complex interactions, bg3 is for you.