Mounts are breaking aggro

[Anyndel]

I made my main character a paladin intending him to be main tank, but ever since I got a horse I realise every single mob is running past me and attacking Camellia instead. I experimented a bit and turns out that if I dismount and start combat like that, then mobs do actually attack my main character instead of running past him.

[Deo]

Ehh just start a fight charging with a rider. Some mobs will focus you from the start, some will run past and get AoOs and aggro on you.

I recently noticed that behavior you are talking about. Usually for my runs I use Leopard as tank, but tried Seelah on horse. Was very bad, I had to micro a lot to get attention from mobs. On Leopard they all just pile up, very comfortable.

[Uzkin]

I think that is working as intended. The enemies prefer to hit the main character over companions, and companions over animal companions.

If you mount with your main character this effectively removes your main from the enemies' aggro list (at top) and replaces it with a horse (at bottom).

[Soul]

I play a combination of RTWP and mostly turn based.... using Seelah as tank... or rather her on her horse.... and my main is a sorcerer....

the pattern I see is during normal encounters the one who has the aggro in priority is... party member in melee range > whoever started the encounter.... so if you charge in your tank to the enemies the tank will get most the aggro... one method I use is have my party step back and just use my charge ability manually for Seelah to jump on top the mobs.... or if ima pull with a ranged character set up a death trap with a bunch of melee with combat reflexes to get in free hits as they go down the death tunnel....

but for ambush fights and fights that start after a cut scene its different... your main character gets priority in those cases.... for instance in market square necromancer fight I can put my main like 3 screens away from fight and start it with other characters... and enemies will STILL go after my character thats like 300 feet away...

[Anyndel]

Originally posted by Uzkin:

I think that is working as intended. The enemies prefer to hit the main character over companions, and companions over animal companions.

If you mount with your main character this effectively removes your main from the enemies' aggro list (at top) and replaces it with a horse (at bottom).

Yeah thats whats happening but I dont think it should be intended at least, feels like if you are mounting something, the "aggro score" of the one mounting should be transferred to the mount so that its still focused. It makes building paladin tanks that almost always get mounts pretty annoying for example. Either way, reported it as a bug and guess devs can see

[Warbird]

I believe too many people associate melee warriors with MMO tanks.

There is no real agro control or taunt built in Pathfinder warrior classes.

Enemies will most of the time target what they can reach starting with the weakest or most threatening I guess.

There is a good thing about this thought, I often equip my warriors with reach weapons, two handers and combat reflexes.

It is amazing how many attack of opportunity I get while enemies are trying to reach my backline :)

[canuck250]

pets also often have way higher ac then characters, which imo should make them the least desirable attacking target. I def charge my main tank in first, I will start casts a moment before I charge tho. Like my kineticist starts to gather power, my hexer will start to cast protective luck, then charge. If my kine casts first, the fight often becomes messy as things charge my backline. If my tank gets in first, it is often focused on her. I have been focused on non pet parties as of late can't say if that would change my start at all. First person to be seen and do damage should be your tank.

Tanks hold aggro by dealing damage, so if your tank can't land hits, it can't hold aggro. If you focus on 1 enemy while being surrounded, good chance you will lose aggro on the others. This is why having a paladin as a tank is so good, because of smite lowering ac, gives them a chance who is focusing on defensive feats still land hits.

Originally posted by Warbird:

two handers and combat reflexes.

Don't forget mythic feat ever ready, just adds to the AoO insanity, double rapiers also is a fav of mine for pet riders. All that extra crit range for more AoO.

When I first started playing, I always opened with my caster so fights often were messy. Until I had my ultimate trio, of seelah on horse out front, flanked by 2 wolf riders. This turned the enemies rushing my casters a boon instead of a problem, all those free AoO and trip pets meant basically nothing got to my backline and the AoOs made fights end faster then trying to hit them normally.

[Yard]

The reason is because you have Carmelia very close to the tank, for your tank to take all the aggression it has to be the first that the enemy sees, put Carmelia further back and the tank only in front

[Deo]

Originally posted by Warbird:

There is no real agro control or taunt built in Pathfinder warrior classes.

That's where you wrong, buddy. Mobs will focus person who charged into them, and started encounter.
Aggro management does not exist in games like BG3 or DOS2. No tanks there.

In Wotr you have dedicated tanks, which will keep enemies busy just fine. Rider on mount ignored by mobs - that is not normal behavior. Even then, if you charge in with rider on mount, quite a few mobs will focus mount - so aggro mechanic works even there.

But there is a clear difference in AI aggro between having a dedicated tank charging in, and keeping aggro of all mobs on him - and a rider on mount charging in. It's easy to test in tutorial area with mongrels. You will see then, that charging in with Leopard keeps all mongrels' aggro on him, even tho he is absolutely un-hittable compared to Horse with rider.

I never used riding tanks, so I was surprised like topic starter, that riding tank can't keep aggro. Maybe it's an intended mechanic, to make riders less overpowered.

[Warbird]

Originally posted by Deo:

Originally posted by Warbird:

There is no real agro control or taunt built in Pathfinder warrior classes.

That's where you wrong, buddy. Mobs will focus person who charged into them, and started encounter.
Aggro management does not exist in games like BG3 or DOS2. No tanks there.

In Wotr you have dedicated tanks, which will keep enemies busy just fine. Rider on mount ignored by mobs - that is not normal behavior. Even then, if you charge in with rider on mount, quite a few mobs will focus mount - so aggro mechanic works even there.

But there is a clear difference in AI aggro between having a dedicated tank charging in, and keeping aggro of all mobs on him - and a rider on mount charging in. It's easy to test in tutorial area with mongrels. You will see then, that charging in with Leopard keeps all mongrels' aggro on him, even tho he is absolutely un-hittable compared to Horse with rider.

I never used riding tanks, so I was surprised like topic starter, that riding tank can't keep aggro. Maybe it's an intended mechanic, to make riders less overpowered.

Once your "tank" is engaged then enemies are unlikely to break and go for another target.

But the other enemies will certainly ignore your tank if they have in sight a more juicy target with low AC and HP.

That is why it is best for your tanks to have many attacks of opportunities so they can hit as many enemies that would pass by them.

Anyway, it is my opinion, do what you want with it.

[Deo]

Originally posted by Warbird:

Once your "tank" is engaged then enemies are unlikely to break and go for another target.

Wrong. That's what topic starter is stating - if you charge in with a mounted rider, enemies ignore the mount (and rider) and will start attacking other party members.

At the same time, if you charge in with Leopard (for example) - all enemies will attack only Leopard.

[Drake]

Just don't use a tank. Make your fontliner specialize in AOO and use that to kill mobs that pass through. It's just faster. I use 2 melee char and at least one archer with snapshot feats and start the fight with a big snare spell (winter's grasp, grease, web etc.), the ranged chars will remove a good chuck of HP then use the melees. By the time they arrive on the backline, they're already pretty much dead.

There is no aggro system in the game, there is no point on basing an entire strategy on a big if and praying a mob just will stay where you want it to stay. You haver the tool to be sure they don't move, use use them.

[Anyndel]

I like using a tank though, and it fits the character I set out to make, which was a paladin that was built to take blows etc.

Googling around there are people that say this was introduced in 1.4:
https://i.imgur.com/2v5imDv.jpg

So it seems that it hasnt always been the same behaviour. Either way all I ended up doing is retraining and picking divine weapon over the mount and all problems are solved, not using a mount now and I have no issues with mobs skipping over my tank anymore.

[Deo]

Originally posted by Anyndel:

not using a mount now and I have no issues with mobs skipping over my tank anymore.

Nice, hope someone with similar problem will stumble on that thread, and will not have to waste their time making tank on a mount.