WotR > BG3; Solasta == BG3??

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Thoughts, Opinions?

I am on level 5 in BG3. Enjoying it. But I am by no means blown away. This is not an earth shattering game.

Hell they ripped off the opening from WotR., Both main characters have a giant fall and are helped by an "entity". Like come on Larian do something original.

i think BG3 is above average cRPG game but just so underwhelming. Especially considering the Baldurs Gate Legacy. They didnt do it any justice.

Godfather III 20 years after the 1st. Not nearly as good still got 7 academy award nominees.

Now I feel BG3 is literally just a highly produced Solasta. The only thing different is multiclassing. And Solasta did a much better job at 5e implementation and a much better combat environment with different ground heights. BG3 clams ground variations but it just rarely matters. Like I never have to pay attention to it.

1 time just because this 1 enemy was running around on the rafters and he couldnt attack but he wouldnt stop running around so I had to go and get him to end combat lol

But other than that Im like yeah height whatever. Ok the Spider Queen was near a chasm instant death. But they did that on purpose cause there achievement for it. So they basically forced the issue. ranged characters dont move out of line of sight or behind cover etc.

I feel the enemy AI is just really dumb. And Larian homebrew 5e doesnt help. So by lvls 4 or 5 your party is basically unhittable. The only thing you need to worry about is fun.
Cause you can have builds that cant get hit and basially just normal attack and its incredible boring.

Bg3 everyone is like Paladin this and that and pallys are awesome. They are so boring solo classed. They might be able to hit and not get hit but they dont do anyrhing,

I feel like I have to respec into goofy classes just to have fun. Like I had a Circle Druid. Dude cant be hit. He does do good damage but its mostly from all normal attacks. I'm like gotta respec this is boring,

[THAC0]

Would argue BG3 is worse then solasta over-all
BG3 in a nutshell when compared to Solasta at the top of my head these things come to mind


BG3 Has Better Graphics
BG3 Has Better Voice Acting
BG3 Has better Visual Effects
BG3 Released Unfinished (Act3)
BG3 Lied about its Endings (No 17k endings)
BG3 Lied about choices mattering
BG3 Lied about what BG3 would contain
BG3 isnt even faithful to BG1-2
BG3 is unbalanced Shove 30 Feet Victory I win boss fight in 1 action / move
BG3 glitches out quests far to easy just by talking to a NPC
BG3 Glitches out by not resting enough
BG3 Glitches out by resting to much
BG3 Story / Writing is pretty ♥♥♥♥ Example
- BG3 Kills Main Villian in Act 2
- BG3 Companions interaction is ♥♥♥♥, Astorian will try to kill you when you first meet, none of your companions will try to help thats just
the tip of the iceberg
- BG3 Romance is ♥♥♥♥, Legit that guy you never talk to in your game has aparently fallen in love with you and wants to marry you coz Reasons
- Minthara (Act 1 main villian) Aparently cant follow the ONLY Road leading to the Druid grove to find them ...
BG3 Lacks Basic Gameplay Mechs such as ...
- Lack of a Day Night Cycle
- Lack of a Party Formation
- Lack of infomation given to the party
- ♥♥♥♥ control with moving the camera about (it gets stuck on random objects mind you)
- ♥♥♥♥ control with inventory and marketing screen management.
- ♥♥♥♥ AI Pathfinding
BG3 Lacks Wall walking or even Hovering in mid air or even flying and ending your turn in mid air unlike Solasta.
BG3 Character creator is WAY Worse
BG3 dosnt have a Custom Campaign Maker
BG3 has a Toxic Fan Base community that will legit use 'it just works' as an excuise

just as a start realy

I mean BG3 is REALY not nearly as good as you think but coz most game critics journalist dont even do proper reviews of games and just believe whatever hype is out there they went crazy with BG3 and so did the weak willed BG3 / Larian studio Fan Boys just mindlessly believing in them
and yet pretty much every single arguement they made about BG3 as to why its the RPG of the decade and such turned out to 100% be lies
but ppl like Angry Joe / Mack on worth a buy and other 'journalists' will avoid the above and will never admit to it coz they get paid to basicly be popular and it was popular at launch to claim a bunch of LIES and MISINFOMATION

if gamers themselfs REALY wanna be taken serioiusly? They need to 100% admit BG3 is a over-rated PoS and go after game critics and journalist who gave the game high review marks and such
otherwise ppl are just going to keep viewing gamers as hyprocrits / children over-all

[THAC0]

Origineel geplaatst door Deo:

Solasta is the game with crazy depths I heard, made with a budget like 1/5 of what Wotr had, not even talking about BG3.

Yet the graphics sucks, so I will never play it. Make good visuals or not make at all, imo.

your apart of the reason why gamers will forever be seen as childish / immature and be laughed at
your basicly admiting you view ppl based on how they look and are super shallow and empty inside? who cares they got beautiful tits!

[THAC0]

Origineel geplaatst door revan1229:

WOTR > BG3. But BG3 > Solasta.

Solasta has better combat than BG3 in pretty much every way, but story, characters, dialogue, etc. are bad. Like, really bad. It reminds me a bit of NWN in that the toolset is the real draw for people to make their own adventures, but NWN at had a few good developer campaigns available, too.

And I would say Larian ripped off their own series (DOS) with the opening, with yet another MC on a ship crashing onto the shore.

Er I would argue Solasta has better story 100%
Legit the main villian of act 1 cant follow the only road there is outside her encampment to find the druid grove

legit your companions sit there and just watch astoria or w.e his f-in name is try to kill you and go WUT?
legit the MC and Companions will just sit there and watch a villian polymorph within touching distance multible times in front of them taunt them over and over and over again and never even Attempt to strike them or anything despite knowing shes pretty much in a weakend state while polymorphing and means to kill you coz
NA ♥♥♥♥ THAT ♥♥♥♥!
ROFLMAO BG3 story is ♥♥♥♥ terrible br0
is solasta story good? Na but its not terrible.

[.O.]

Origineel geplaatst door THAC0:

legit your companions sit there and just watch astoria or w.e his f-in name is try to kill you and go WUT?

Some of the other stuff I can understand why some people might feel that way. But this one is objectively wrong.

At the point in the game where you meet Astarion you are basically all still strangers, why would any of them help you? Why would they risk death for a stranger they barely know whose death doesn't really matter much to them

[Melalo]

Origineel geplaatst door .O.:

At the point in the game where you meet Astarion you are basically all still strangers, why would any of them help you? Why would they risk death for a stranger they barely know whose death doesn't really matter much to them

If you save Shadowheart from the pod, she says she owes you. Saving you from a crazy fashion victim is a great opportunity for her to pay off the debt.

[KaliYama]

Origineel geplaatst door Ultra Retarded Fox:

Origineel geplaatst door .O.:

At the point in the game where you meet Astarion you are basically all still strangers, why would any of them help you? Why would they risk death for a stranger they barely know whose death doesn't really matter much to them

If you save Shadowheart from the pod, she says she owes you. Saving you from a crazy fashion victim is a great opportunity for her to pay off the debt.

also, if some psychopath is about to kill the only person helping you in the middle of a hostile wilderness and illithid attack, what normal person wouldn't try to help their new friend? odds are he kills you next. but a shar worshipper ain't normal.

also given that the last 1/3rd of WOTR wasn't finished, i'd say BG3>Kingmaker>>Solasta>>>WOTR

[.O.]

Origineel geplaatst door Ultra Retarded Fox:

Origineel geplaatst door .O.:

At the point in the game where you meet Astarion you are basically all still strangers, why would any of them help you? Why would they risk death for a stranger they barely know whose death doesn't really matter much to them

If you save Shadowheart from the pod, she says she owes you. Saving you from a crazy fashion victim is a great opportunity for her to pay off the debt.

1. Do you always take strangers at their word expecting them to actually honor it? I don't,

2. Shadowheart is a cleric of Shar, not exactly the most trustworthy deity. Her domain is Trickery and if I recall correctly Shar is or used to have the domains of Betrayal and Treachery as well.

So yeah not exactly someone you expect to actually honor their word or come to your aid, unless they have a really good reason to do so. And at that point in the game, they do not. Later in the game when you're already good friends or something sure they might help you out. But definitely not that early in your meeting.

[Melalo]

Origineel geplaatst door .O.:

So yeah not exactly someone you expect to actually honor their word or come to your aid, unless they have a really good reason to do so. And at that point in the game, they do not. Later in the game when you're already good friends or something sure they might help you out. But definitely not that early in your meeting.

Later in the game... yeah, that never happens. As THAC0 already mentioned: you stand in front of Ketheric, who is throwing the aasimar girl around the place, he's two feet away from you and completely vulnerable. Maybe we should attack him from behind or interrupt in any way? Nah, let's just stand there and see how our new friend suffers. He will then retreat but we will not even attempt to stop him, because we're the bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, not seasoned adventurers.

That edgy anime girl starts her transformation into the avatar of Bhaal and she's at arm's reach and can be easily stabbed? Guess what, our only option is just to stand there. She also can be attacked earlier on, while she's transformed into another person (a journalist or a sailor, for example), but does that change anything? No, she just bugs out and stands there in T-pose with 0 health. The writer could never predict you could see through her horrible disguise.

I've come to kill Nere, my intentions are clear to everyone and I have to sit through his entire edgelord monologue and watch how he kills an innocent gnome? Yeah, makes sense (no it does not). And if you do attack him before he starts his monologue? The gnome in question just disappears with a bottle cork sound effect.

Baldur's Gate, the coronation, Gortash notices your party, comes down from the throne to speak to you. Here he is, waiting for you to shake his hand, a perfect opportunity to strike! You decide to attack him, cutscene ends and... he's standing at his throne, as if he never moved. That makes no sense.

Astarion tries to feed off you and there isn't a single companion at the camp? Where the hell is Withers? Where are Scratch, the owlbear cub, Volo? You know, all the people that inhabit my camp? Did Astarion just teleported them into another dimension or they all went to a party without inviting me?

How do other games deal with this kind of situation? Your characters are stunned by a powerful spell, scattered around by an explosion or are simply too far away to interrupt the villain's transformation.

That's why Baldur's Gate 3's story sucks. It relies too much on player's willing suspension of disbelief. No story is without flaws, so I will close my eyes to something stupid once, twice, maybe thrice. But Baldur's Gate 3 asks me to do that every single time.

[Caldrin]

Dont get me wrong really enjoy the pathfinder games and Solasta they are all very solid games but BG3 is just on another level for me..

I find myself missing all the great mechanics BG3 has and the great story and voice acting as well..

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Origineel geplaatst door Caldrin:

Dont get me wrong really enjoy the pathfinder games and Solasta they are all very solid games but BG3 is just on another level for me..

I find myself missing all the great mechanics BG3 has and the great story and voice acting as well..

I get the comment about voice. Bg3 is produced better.

But better mechanics? I mean bg3 has worse character sheets, worse inventory, worse loot highlight, worse HUD.

I mean BG2 EE had better inventory system and better highlight loot feature.

I don't see 1 mechanic that has to do with gameplay better in bg3. It has better audio visuals that is it.

The story is incredibly linear. They give you skill checks at big parts but literally no matter what choice you make the story has to proceed exactly the same way.

The one mechanic I'll give bg3 is complete companion Respec. That's brilliant.

But honestly owlcat had way better companions.

Your main character is a lump on a log. If you don't pick dark surge he literally has no bsck ground. He looks awful being only character that doesn't open his mouth or speaks. And dark surge is the only real connection to bg1/2 but they did it weird.

I remember bg3 in act 2 the lady doctor puts you in this machine. There are lots of skills checks. Basically same outcome.

Then when you get further in same building. Anotger big choice. But it's fake. You either die or have to go inside artifact.

So honestly I don't know what is so great about the bg3 story. WotR story was more involved with more everlasting choices.

I will also give Bg3 credit for mainstreaming tbt crpg. My only conclusions is more casual gamers like bg3 more cause it spends the whole game trying to hide the rpg.

I think bg3 is real good game and but in terms of turn based crpg game mechanics it's as ordinary as they come

[SnuffSaid]

BG3 is such a hollow disappointment for veteran RPG fans that the entire time I was playing it I was just thinking of better RPGs, and in the end I uninstalled it to reinstall this and try one of the other mythic paths.

Ultimately nothing matters in BG3, not the way you build your character nor the choices you make during the story, and this only really becomes clear if you either have a keen eye for railroading and the illusion of choice in RPGs, or if you play two separate characters through to act 3 (preferably one good and one evil).

It doesn't matter how pretty an RPG looks or how great the voice acting is or even how much class/race flavour dialogue there is, if I can't shape the ending into something more than a distinct binary I just don't care.

The writing and story in BG3 is also underwhelming, too. Each act feels like it was written by a separate writer who didn't particular care for their colleagues work, it has an identity crisis about whether it wants to be a low stakes or high stakes story, and a separate identity crisis about whether it wants to be Game Of Thrones gritty or Critical Role silly tonally, and the companions are a muddled mess to boot.

Genuine contender for the most overrated game in history.

[Vertigo]

I think there is a bit of bias here considering this is a WotR forum. I don't disagree with some of the criticisms of BG3, but I think some of the stuff comes off as excessive nitpicking. It's silly to compare two mechanically different systems (Pathfinder 1e vs D&D 5e) when there is a lot of fundamental differences in how you build a character and play the game.

And while people say choices matter in WoTR, it still has a lot of same-y elements and repetitiveness as well. It also has some questionable writing and alignment/design choices. I will also not get started on the bugs. I feel like people are trying to hard to neg BG3 (but it does deserve some flak) for things I also saw in WoTR.

[SnuffSaid]

Origineel geplaatst door Vertigo:

I think there is a bit of bias here considering this is a WotR forum. I don't disagree with some of the criticisms of BG3, but I think some of the stuff comes off as excessive nitpicking. It's silly to compare two mechanically different systems (Pathfinder 1e vs D&D 5e) when there is a lot of fundamental differences in how you build a character and play the game.

And while people say choices matter in WoTR, it still has a lot of same-y elements and repetitiveness as well. It also has some questionable writing and alignment/design choices. I will also not get started on the bugs. I feel like people are trying to hard to neg BG3 (but it does deserve some flak) for things I also saw in WoTR.

No offence, but this is a load of crap. Out of the 10 mythic paths around 7 of them lead to wildly different endings, with variations even within those endings.

BG3 has 2 endings, with 2 significant variations on those 2 endings.

The bias is clearly in favour of BG3 and the cult-like mass hysteria surrounding it. Here is just an environment where real RPG fans can voice their opinions without having to worry about getting 8,000 clown awards for not treating a fairly average game as the second coming of Christ.

[Vertigo]

Origineel geplaatst door SnuffSaid:

Origineel geplaatst door Vertigo:

I think there is a bit of bias here considering this is a WotR forum. I don't disagree with some of the criticisms of BG3, but I think some of the stuff comes off as excessive nitpicking. It's silly to compare two mechanically different systems (Pathfinder 1e vs D&D 5e) when there is a lot of fundamental differences in how you build a character and play the game.

And while people say choices matter in WoTR, it still has a lot of same-y elements and repetitiveness as well. It also has some questionable writing and alignment/design choices. I will also not get started on the bugs. I feel like people are trying to hard to neg BG3 (but it does deserve some flak) for things I also saw in WoTR.

No offence, but this is a load of crap. Out of the 10 mythic paths around 7 of them lead to wildly different endings, with variations even within those endings.

BG3 has 2 endings, with 2 significant variations on those 2 endings.

The bias is clearly in favour of BG3 and the cult-like mass hysteria surrounding it. Here is just an environment where real RPG fans can voice their opinions without having to worry about getting 8,000 clown awards for not treating a fairly average game as the second coming of Christ.

Nah, I see fanboyism. Your wording suggests that this is some kind of battle that needs to be had when it isn't. It's people's opinions at the end of the day, so I don't know why some have such a hard time with something they don't agree with.

Yes, there are more options in the paths you take, but at the end of the day, Galfrey is going to banish you to the abyss, you are going to have to choose to deal with the world wound, and you are either going to die closing it or use Areelu (secret ending aside). You do get a little bit of variety with your companion and ending slides, but the plot doesn't really deviate. You still end up doing mostly the same things except under a different banner.

Don't get me wrong: you are right to say WotR has more ways to get from point A to B on the journey.

[SnuffSaid]

Origineel geplaatst door Vertigo:

Origineel geplaatst door SnuffSaid:

No offence, but this is a load of crap. Out of the 10 mythic paths around 7 of them lead to wildly different endings, with variations even within those endings.

BG3 has 2 endings, with 2 significant variations on those 2 endings.

The bias is clearly in favour of BG3 and the cult-like mass hysteria surrounding it. Here is just an environment where real RPG fans can voice their opinions without having to worry about getting 8,000 clown awards for not treating a fairly average game as the second coming of Christ.

Nah, I see fanboyism. Your wording suggests that this is some kind of battle that needs to be had when it isn't. It's people's opinions at the end of the day, so I don't know why some have such a hard time with something they don't agree with.

Yes, there are more options in the paths you take, but at the end of the day, Galfrey is going to banish you to the abyss, you are going to have to choose to deal with the world wound, and you are either going to die closing it or use Areelu (secret ending aside). You do get a little bit of variety with your companion and ending slides, but the plot doesn't really deviate. You still end up doing mostly the same things except under a different banner.

Don't get me wrong: you are right to say WotR has more ways to get from point A to B on the journey.

Yeah, Larian fanboyism. I have no allegiance to Owlcat, they are just better at making RPGs. They have their own issues, particularly with combat encounter design, but they blow Larian out of the water in every area that matters in an RPG.

And that's a reductionist summation of the game to fit your narrative. BG3 is a genuine corridor of a game, each "act" essentially just being 1/2 linear maps, and at the end of the corridor is 2 doors to choose the ending. Worst of all, not a damn thing you do along the way matters to those endings. You can be an arsehole the entire game and get the "good" ending, you can be an angel the whole game then choose the "bad" ending. Whether you abstained from tadpoles or ate them like sweets makes zero difference to the Illithid decision. Nothing matters. Here when you choose a mythic path you're locked out of a boatload of other content, which is exactly how an RPG should be to make it replayable. Nobody is going to replay BG3 to the end more than twice.

And the most irritating part is 90% of the Larian fanboys haven't even finished act 1 before calling it the greatest game of all time, and the few that did make it to the end and saw how railroaded it is refuse to back down from their position or admit they backed the wrong horse as a pathetic protest reflex to Diablo IV, even though Larian are just as dishonest as any "triple A" dev.

More people finished WOTR than Larian's last game, DOS2, that says it all. WOTR is brutal, unforgiving and extremely long, and still more people finished it than a Larian game, because they're just "frontloaded" and so poorly done in their second half nobody can be bothered finishing them. And they get praised for this.

The battle isn't against BG3, it's against the dumbing down and dilution of the RPG genre, and it absolutely is a battle that needs to happen.