Unity changes affecting existing games

[.O.]

So I couldn't see anything on this forum. But apparently Unity CEO John Ricitello (former EA CEO) wants to make developers pay them money each time a player installs a game made in Unity.

I'm not 100% whether that's for "each player/purchase" or literally "each install" both are horrible but the second one is much worse.

I expect many many developers will band together to fight back, but I just thought if people are not already aware, they should be made aware. Since WotR and KM I believe are both built in Unity, and I think the upcoming Rogue Trader may also be Unity?

I fully expect Unity/Ricitello to try and make this retroactively applied, although I'm not sure if they can do that legally.

[dszombiex]

What should probably worry developers more than this recent drama is Unity's financials.

Last quarter they lost (-192.16M net quarterly income). Last year it was almost a BILLION (-921.07M). How would it impact their game if Unity were to declare bankruptcy?

https://ycharts.com/companies/U/net_income

[smellibear]

Oh I've been watching this blow up on twitter for two days now. It's hitting the mainstream news atm and it's kinda fascinating watching all the hedge fund bros across society realize the jig is almost up and it's time to really grab that bag before the party's over

But yeah, Unity messed up major and it's apparently all from overhead. Apparently Ricitello is the guy who pulled the lootbox stunt at EA? So yeah, this is a huge mess.

Worrying about Unity declaring bankruptcy is very funny as a concern after listening to all these devs. They would outright laugh at you

[Candyman2000]

Originally posted by dszombiex:

What should probably worry developers more than this recent drama is Unity's financials.

Last quarter they lost (-192.16M net quarterly income). Last year it was almost a BILLION (-921.07M). How would it impact their game if Unity were to declare bankruptcy?

https://ycharts.com/companies/U/net_income

what should worry users is the fact unity and all other platforms are going to be tracking your data even more then usual, want your data to stay yours well good luck cause the ai gold rush means data is a currency of value even more then its ever been.

[Shadow]

Originally posted by .O.:

I fully expect Unity/Ricitello to try and make this retroactively applied, although I'm not sure if they can do that legally.

Yes, apparently it has been 100% confirmed that they are going to do it retroactively. Or at least as far as determining when they start charging you for new installs at any rate. "they will be applying the threshold to lifetime installations of the game, not just from 01/01/24"

And I agree, that's probably illegal and if it's not it probably should be. It's very much like if Blizzard raised their WoW subscription fee next year and sent you a bill for the unpaid difference of your sub if that higher fee had been in place when you first started.

Originally posted by smellibear:

Apparently Ricitello is the guy who pulled the lootbox stunt at EA?

He's also the same sleezebag who suggested charging people for bullets in Battlefield and called developers "the biggest f------ idiots" if they push back on monetizing the hell out of their games from the beginning of the development process.

So yeah, just like Bobby Kotick and Martin Shkreli, he's one of those CEOs that gives all other CEOs a really bad reputation.

Bellular did a pretty good video on the topic if anyone needs or wants a summary of the situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSDsjJAics

[Shadow]

Just FYI, out of curiosity I did a quick search to get an idea of what games are made with Unity. Here's a short list:

Pathfinder, both Kingmaker and WotR
Outer Wilds
Subnautica and Below Zero
Pokemon Go
Cities Skylines
Rust
Pillars of Eternity
Cuphead
7 Days to Die
Tyranny
Cult of the Lamb
Fall Guys
Graveyard Keeper
Valheim
The Forest
Raft
Among Us

[smellibear]

Originally posted by Shadow:

Just FYI, out of curiosity I did a quick search to get an idea of what games are made with Unity. Here's a short list:

Pathfinder, both Kingmaker and WotR
Outer Wilds
Subnautica and Below Zero
Pokemon Go
Cities Skylines
Rust
Pillars of Eternity
Cuphead
7 Days to Die
Tyranny
Cult of the Lamb
Fall Guys
Graveyard Keeper
Valheim
The Forest
Raft
Among Us

Not to mention big boys like Genshin Impact or Hearthstone. And apparently ol Johnny boy may be a rotten apple but the real culprits are the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the board who bought their way in a few years ago. Saw a good reddit post on it

[mk11]

Originally posted by Candyman2000:

what should worry users is the fact unity and all other platforms are going to be tracking your data even more then usual, want your data to stay yours well good luck cause the ai gold rush means data is a currency of value even more then its ever been.

AFAIK, Unity is not tracking any of your personal data which is why it is being done per-install as they have no way of knowing two installs are for the same purchase.

This whole per-install approach seems nonsensical. Since installs will include -
- pirated copies
- test installs, if you follow good practice and run automated tests in virtual machines on every internal build that is a lot of test installs
- re-installs when an owner juggles their disk space by deleting and re-installing, or moving computer
- purchases that are refunded on steam
- upgrades to the unity version that require re-installing the runtime
- etc.

What isn't clear is how they know which product an install is for.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

It only applies to companies that get 200k downloads per month, and EVEN THEN the cost only ends up being about a 16% engine fee (which is still less than you pay to use Unreal). The policy barely even effects the majority of companies - and it still hasn't even been implemented yet, it was just a press release to test the waters.

Indie companies were never going to be effected by this - just the Ubisofts of the world, who can go suck a hosepipe for all I care anyway. The PR blowback is more interesting than the policy itself.

[.//slayer]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

It only applies to companies that get 200k downloads per month, and EVEN THEN the cost only ends up being about a 16% engine fee (which is still less than you pay to use Unreal). The policy barely even effects the majority of companies - and it still hasn't even been implemented yet, it was just a press release to test the waters.

Indie companies were never going to be effected by this - just the Ubisofts of the world, who can go suck a hosepipe for all I care anyway. The PR blowback is more interesting than the policy itself.

Not per month, and not downloads - Unity's blog post says 200k installs per lifetime.

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

and EVEN THEN the cost only ends up being about a 16% engine fee

All the fees are flat and start from $0.2 per install - including the games that were developed using the personal (i.e., free-tier) plan. There is no % of engine fee, it's a set amount.

(which is still less than you pay to use Unreal).

Unreal only starts charging you after exceeding $1m of earnings, as opposed to $200k of revenue over 12 months in Unity's case.

Indie companies were never going to be effected by this

In my understanding, indie devs face the greatest danger of all - imagine releasing a cheap game, especially if it's a mobile game, and it accumulates a million or more downloads overnight after some streamer randomly advertises it. It's impossible to account for a surge of popularity like this, and the dev would have to introduce some sort of failsafes to either not exceed the $200k revenue threshold or go beyond it in a way that doesn't leave them indebted to Unity. It's a mess.

[Soul]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

It only applies to companies that get 200k downloads per month, and EVEN THEN the cost only ends up being about a 16% engine fee (which is still less than you pay to use Unreal). The policy barely even effects the majority of companies - and it still hasn't even been implemented yet, it was just a press release to test the waters.

Indie companies were never going to be effected by this - just the Ubisofts of the world, who can go suck a hosepipe for all I care anyway. The PR blowback is more interesting than the policy itself.

I read that there is a loophole though.... saying that those small companies could fall into the same category... and how some of the companies that give out their game for free and make their profits only through microtransactions would be affected by it too and they showed calculations of how unity would be demanding more money than they can make...

[smellibear]

You can ignore Unity apologists like Super Cosmic up there. Either he's a Dunning Kruger-and speaking out of his ass or he's deliberately trolling. These devs who are upset are not stupid, and they have receipts, if someone wanted to know what was going on then they have lots of chances to find out. If they don't already know, it's because they don't want to

[Lywelyn]

it is illegal beyond question to try and make such a move retro active, on both already deployed, and undergoing deployment projects.

what is however, is informing your consumer in advance that from now one starting with XX/XX/XX date. each use of the product will require a new deal in which the new policy will apply.

it will sure be a busy years for corporate lawyers but eh they gotta justify their pay eventually. no doubt.

as for the Unity CEO the goal is more smarter than just making easy money.

it's forcing most game dev studio to shut down or move on to a new game engine, at the end of the day the goal is to disturb indies, making them less of a competition.

Unity is just a mean to achieve this. one that can be sacrificed in the process and as such. their CEO sold his entire Unity stock market 2 days prior to the annoucement as if it is mere coincidence.... only a naive fool would believe that.

we're talking Ex EA CEO here.

[Telaka]

I'm more worried about new unity tracking soft. This kinda soft is illegal in many countries around the world not to mention that I don't want that kind of malware on my PC.

[Telaka]

Originally posted by Lywelyn:

it's forcing most game dev studio to shut down or move on to a new game engine, at the end of the day the goal is to disturb indies, making them less of a competition.

Unity is just a mean to achieve this. one that can be sacrificed in the process and as such. their CEO sold his entire Unity stock market 2 days prior to the annoucement as if it is mere coincidence.... only a naive fool would believe that.

we're talking Ex EA CEO here.

This. I also think this is a move from AAA studios/gaming corporations to try to derail indie studios and make their life harder by doing this and Riccitielo is their (AAA) guy.

[dataseer21]

Maybe I'm alone in this. I have somewhat been keeping track. By being alone I mean that to an extent that I'm willing to see some companies burn to the ground. I don't want the government to bail them out but they will. Laws need to be changed. The behavior of some of these CEOs are against the common good and they should rot for the rest of their lives in prison. Also their top brass should rot too. I'm just talking about some of the worst cases like some that have been mentioned.

This particular case I don't know. But for example the epi pen guy should be in prison.