Am I right that Archmage Armor is as good or better than any heavy armor in the game?

[gronkinator]

Basically what the question says. 4 (mage armor) +10 (mythic) is as good as 9 (plate mail) + 5 (max enhancement bonus). Then there is no max dex bonus to deal with. And if you really want to, you could wear any armor in the game for the other effects and still have the same total AC.

Is that really the decision Owlcat made? to make walking into battle with no armor give you a better armor class than the best armor in the game?
I'm really disappointed with a lot of the game design decisions Owlcat makes. =/

[smellibear]

Weird trolling attempt. Is this old discourse or something?

[oburec]

Well, yes, characters that don't wear armor and instead rely on various stat to AC effects can reach higher AC than armored ones in this game.

But Archmage Armor specifically isn't the main offender here. It costs a mythic ability and lags behind full plate armor AC practically all of the game.

If you really want to make this comparison, at least wait a day for the DLC release and compare mage armor mythic ability vs armor mythic ability (or install TabletopTweaks and compare against Armored Might).

[gronkinator]

Originally posted by oburec:

Well, yes, characters that don't wear armor and instead rely on various stat to AC effects can reach higher AC than armored ones in this game.

But Archmage Armor specifically isn't the main offender here. It costs a mythic ability and lags behind full plate armor AC practically all of the game.

If you really want to make this comparison, at least wait a day for the DLC release and compare mage armor mythic ability vs armor mythic ability (or install TabletopTweaks and compare against Armored Might).

I don't even mean doing all the monk shenanigans and stuff. I just mean a wizard with mage armor with some buffs will have a higher AC than a fighter with some buffs in the best plate mail.
And the wizard can polymorph or whatever and still benefit from mage armor.

[doingwork]

Any unarmored class (monk, instinctual warrior barb, sword saint, etc.) gets an insane AC buff with just 1 lvl of witch. Take iceplant and a lizard familiar, theres a ring you can get early that gives an extra +2 from iceplant so you get +5 total AC from just the witch level that stacks with everything, then mage armor with archmage armor. In the midgame at Mythic lvl 5 its a 14 AC boost to to an unarmored class for just 1 lvl and 1 mythic perk.

So yea it is kind of silly. In my current playthrough I had a warrior, full plate with shield and all defensive feats (shield focus, heavy armor focus, etc.) and I switched to an instinctual Barb 5 / 1 witch / fighter 1 / duelist 5 (lvl 12 currently) and my AC went up by 8 (not to mention better saves and improved uncanny dodge so I cant get flanked), and thats at only Mythic 4 currently.

[hilburnashua]

It could be even worse, if Magic Vestment was coded correctly you should be able to get a +5 enchancement bonus on clothing for AC in addition to the 4+mythic level for Archmage Armor.

[oburec]

Originally posted by gronkinator:

I don't even mean doing all the monk shenanigans and stuff. I just mean a wizard with mage armor with some buffs will have a higher AC than a fighter with some buffs in the best plate mail.

No, not really.

[oburec]

Originally posted by doingwork:

Any unarmored class (monk, instinctual warrior barb, sword saint, etc.) gets an insane AC buff with just 1 lvl of witch. Take iceplant and a lizard familiar, theres a ring you can get early that gives an extra +2 from iceplant so you get +5 total AC from just the witch level that stacks with everything, then mage armor with archmage armor. In the midgame at Mythic lvl 5 its a 14 AC boost to to an unarmored class for just 1 lvl and 1 mythic perk.

The witch splash works for armor users just as well.

[Yannir]

You'll only have Mythic 10 for the last 10 minutes of the game so it's mostly 13 AC at max level.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by gronkinator:

I don't even mean doing all the monk shenanigans and stuff. I just mean a wizard with mage armor with some buffs will have a higher AC than a fighter with some buffs in the best plate mail.

Then no.
Mithral Full Plate +5 will give 14 AC, plus focus +1 AC, +3 from DEX.
Meaning you would need 18 DEX as base to be equal at MR9 (but you will still lag behind fo most of early and mid game as you get Full Plates earlier than getting new MR).

Unless you get cca 18 AC from stats (which is easy to do0), naked tank+Archamage Armor will not overcome Heavy Armor+Shield Fighter. It is like that today, tommorow at 21.11.2023 it will probably change as they will add Mythic Armor abilities.

[doingwork]

Originally posted by oburec:

Originally posted by doingwork:

Any unarmored class (monk, instinctual warrior barb, sword saint, etc.) gets an insane AC buff with just 1 lvl of witch. Take iceplant and a lizard familiar, theres a ring you can get early that gives an extra +2 from iceplant so you get +5 total AC from just the witch level that stacks with everything, then mage armor with archmage armor. In the midgame at Mythic lvl 5 its a 14 AC boost to to an unarmored class for just 1 lvl and 1 mythic perk.

The witch splash works for armor users just as well.

It does but you also get the mage armor for unarmored classes so its even stronger for them.

[oburec]

Originally posted by doingwork:

It does but you also get the mage armor for unarmored classes so its even stronger for them.

No, it gives the same natural armor bonus to AC completely irrespective of other circumstances. It doesn't really have any relevance to (Arch)Mage Armor vs Full Plate comparison, i.e. two competing sources of armor bonus to AC.

[doingwork]

Originally posted by oburec:

Originally posted by doingwork:

It does but you also get the mage armor for unarmored classes so its even stronger for them.

No, it gives the same natural armor bonus to AC completely irrespective of other circumstances. It doesn't really have any relevance to (Arch)Mage Armor vs Full Plate comparison, i.e. two competing sources of armor bonus to AC.

I meant you get the +5 natural AC as would any other class, but you also get access to Mage armor for archmage armor which only benefits you if you are unarmored (or light armor I guess). For a full plate character you essentially get nothing from the spells, but unarmored get both the natural AC and the Archmage armor access, no need to take sorc or something else in addition.

[canuck250]

Mage armour pots cost 50g, you don’t need to take a class dip for the spell.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by canuck250:

Mage armour pots cost 50g, you don’t need to take a class dip for the spell.

But you need it to work with Archmage Armor Mythic.

[canuck250]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Originally posted by canuck250:

Mage armour pots cost 50g, you don’t need to take a class dip for the spell.

But you need it to work with Archmage Armor Mythic.

A pot/scroll work for archmage armour. It acts like you casted the spell.