Best tank class

[Etxxu]

Hi!!

I am having problems with party composition as I want some specific companions because I find them better for interactions and banters, but that let me without a good enough tank... So I will respec my beloved melee-oriented Cleric to do a (my most hated class) tank so I can take Daeran, Nenio, Regill, Wolj and Arue...

Any advide which is the best class for tanks and any tip in feats and weapon?

Also, can a Paladín be Azata Mythic path?

Thank you so much!

[Reven_Shadow]

Have you tried instinctual barbarian? Has lots of tools to allow you to become tanky while still hitting hard. Get a greataxe and start swinging!

Other options I would suggest include Bloodrager (primalist probably), Sword Saint or Vivi.
Which difficulty are you on?

If you've got the DLC shifters can be pretty tanky as well.

As far as I'm aware you may have issues with a paladin azata because of the alignment requirement. Azata is chaotic good, and you can be one step away I believe, while lawful good is two steps away.

Depending on your answers for the above my tips for feats and weapons will likely be pretty different but the crane line of feats is a pretty safe option for stacking more AC!

[THAC0]

Paladin cant be Azata coz of the alignment requirement CG is more then 1 step away from LG
There are many builds online show casing good tanky builds like Tower Shield Aeon is realy good
differnt Barbiarians can be tanky

[Etxxu]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Reven_Shadow:

Have you tried instinctual barbarian? Has lots of tools to allow you to become tanky while still hitting hard. Get a greataxe and start swinging!

Other options I would suggest include Bloodrager (primalist probably), Sword Saint or Vivi.
Which difficulty are you on?

If you've got the DLC shifters can be pretty tanky as well.

As far as I'm aware you may have issues with a paladin azata because of the alignment requirement. Azata is chaotic good, and you can be one step away I believe, while lawful good is two steps away.

Depending on your answers for the above my tips for feats and weapons will likely be pretty different but the crane line of feats is a pretty safe option for stacking more AC!

I thought Paladín to have some self-buffing spells, but If I can't be Azata then no
As a tank I would prefer a shield and sword armored tank (Seelah could be perfect if she wouldn't be so boring as a companion)

[Swordman_Red]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Hi!!

I am having problems with party composition as I want some specific companions because I find them better for interactions and banters, but that let me without a good enough tank... So I will respec my beloved melee-oriented Cleric to do a (my most hated class) tank so I can take Daeran, Nenio, Regill, Wolj and Arue...

Any advide which is the best class for tanks and any tip in feats and weapon?
No monks! Haha

Also, can a Paladín be Azata Mythic path?

Thank you so much!

What stops your beloved melee-oriented cleric from being your frontliner?

[Reven_Shadow]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Reven_Shadow:

Have you tried instinctual barbarian? Has lots of tools to allow you to become tanky while still hitting hard. Get a greataxe and start swinging!

Other options I would suggest include Bloodrager (primalist probably), Sword Saint or Vivi.
Which difficulty are you on?

If you've got the DLC shifters can be pretty tanky as well.

As far as I'm aware you may have issues with a paladin azata because of the alignment requirement. Azata is chaotic good, and you can be one step away I believe, while lawful good is two steps away.

Depending on your answers for the above my tips for feats and weapons will likely be pretty different but the crane line of feats is a pretty safe option for stacking more AC!

I thought Paladín to have some self-buffing spells, but If I can't be Azata then no
As a tank I would prefer a shield and sword armored tank (Seelah could be perfect if she wouldn't be so boring as a companion)

If you start as a paladin, you can still keep certain class features and buffs but once your alignment shifts you won't be able to level it anymore. Just wanted to mention in case you plan to multi class anyways.

Regarding sword and board my vote would actually be for a slayer then! Deliverer or Spawn Slayer would work. They get to outright bypass feat requirements for two weapon fighting so you could make a shield bash build. Decently tanky for anything but the absolute highest difficulty where you'd be considered an off-tank I feel.

Another option would be cavalier, let your mount tank for you (it's AC is what's targeted first when you're mounted) sword and shield can still work and charges are fun imo.

[Etxxu]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Swordman_Red:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Hi!!

I am having problems with party composition as I want some specific companions because I find them better for interactions and banters, but that let me without a good enough tank... So I will respec my beloved melee-oriented Cleric to do a (my most hated class) tank so I can take Daeran, Nenio, Regill, Wolj and Arue...

Any advide which is the best class for tanks and any tip in feats and weapon?
No monks! Haha

Also, can a Paladín be Azata Mythic path?

Thank you so much!

What stops your beloved melee-oriented cleric from being your frontliner?

Constant dead and miss a lot haha

Diposting pertama kali oleh Reven_Shadow:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

I thought Paladín to have some self-buffing spells, but If I can't be Azata then no
As a tank I would prefer a shield and sword armored tank (Seelah could be perfect if she wouldn't be so boring as a companion)

If you start as a paladin, you can still keep certain class features and buffs but once your alignment shifts you won't be able to level it anymore. Just wanted to mention in case you plan to multi class anyways.

Regarding sword and board my vote would actually be for a slayer then! Deliverer or Spawn Slayer would work. They get to outright bypass feat requirements for two weapon fighting so you could make a shield bash build. Decently tanky for anything but the absolute highest difficulty where you'd be considered an off-tank I feel.

Another option would be cavalier, let your mount tank for you (it's AC is what's targeted first when you're mounted) sword and shield can still work and charges are fun imo.

I will search those options to know them!

[Etxxu]

Diposting pertama kali oleh talemore:

In theory cleric could work it's just that all stats are in Constitution and Charisma.


What tank against whom?

Animal companions comes with 30+ AC and act 2 the highest AC to obtain without bleeding the heart of stone is 31

For most part the game benefit melee because all enemies have a lot of melee attacks. If the enemies had a lot of magic attacks Constitution would help.

And don't forget if you CC counter cast them you are tanking them as well.

Hold person is junk and shouldn't be used, in act you can't even use it on humans.

Mortal terror work decent. It is because Mortal terror is partial. It never fails compared to hideous laughter who will either fail or success.

Fireball works until late act 2 where it start to become dull and stop having much impact. What makes fireball good is that it can be obtained early with selective metamagic and can be hurled in the center of your party.

Tanks will be defeated eventually and the best thing is to have lots of healing, Sometimes healing is better than tanking. The opponent will deal so much damage that it will end up making 80 damage.

You can make anyone a tank but animal companions have advantage that it doesn't even matter if they're at Death's door they will never die. And you can have so many animal companions that you essentially increase your power level by 200% not only does animals tank but they as well gain trip.

Trip and jump up are Rogue abilities but they are given late that at the beginning of the game not having trip is being crippled.

Any class with an animal companion is already at god-tier next to the saints themselves, these beast are gods who will never die no matter how much beating. And they come with superior AC than any of your own characters, trip and superior mobility.

The difference between a dumped dexterity and an average is very low.

The difference is between Ember having 1 single more AC than a character who dumped dexterity entirely.

Who can have this animal companion? Is It a feat or spell?

Thanks!

[Reven_Shadow]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Diposting pertama kali oleh talemore:

In theory cleric could work it's just that all stats are in Constitution and Charisma.


What tank against whom?

Animal companions comes with 30+ AC and act 2 the highest AC to obtain without bleeding the heart of stone is 31

For most part the game benefit melee because all enemies have a lot of melee attacks. If the enemies had a lot of magic attacks Constitution would help.

And don't forget if you CC counter cast them you are tanking them as well.

Hold person is junk and shouldn't be used, in act you can't even use it on humans.

Mortal terror work decent. It is because Mortal terror is partial. It never fails compared to hideous laughter who will either fail or success.

Fireball works until late act 2 where it start to become dull and stop having much impact. What makes fireball good is that it can be obtained early with selective metamagic and can be hurled in the center of your party.

Tanks will be defeated eventually and the best thing is to have lots of healing, Sometimes healing is better than tanking. The opponent will deal so much damage that it will end up making 80 damage.

You can make anyone a tank but animal companions have advantage that it doesn't even matter if they're at Death's door they will never die. And you can have so many animal companions that you essentially increase your power level by 200% not only does animals tank but they as well gain trip.

Trip and jump up are Rogue abilities but they are given late that at the beginning of the game not having trip is being crippled.

Any class with an animal companion is already at god-tier next to the saints themselves, these beast are gods who will never die no matter how much beating. And they come with superior AC than any of your own characters, trip and superior mobility.

The difference between a dumped dexterity and an average is very low.

The difference is between Ember having 1 single more AC than a character who dumped dexterity entirely.

Who can have this animal companion? Is It a feat or spell?

Thanks!

Classes that can have animal companions off the top of my head:
Ranges (almost every spec i believe starting from level 4, get boon companion feat)
Oracle that takes animal domain
Druid that chooses companion over other domain (certain druid specs cannot get pets)
Cavaliers
Hunters
Sohei Monk
Beast Rider subclass for bloodrager
Arcane rider magus subclass

Important to note to ride the pet they need to be at least one size larger than you (so they must be large if your medium, etc)

[Swordman_Red]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Reven_Shadow:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Who can have this animal companion? Is It a feat or spell?

Thanks!

Classes that can have animal companions off the top of my head:
Ranges (almost every spec i believe starting from level 4, get boon companion feat)
Oracle that takes animal domain
Druid that chooses companion over other domain (certain druid specs cannot get pets)
Cavaliers
Hunters
Sohei Monk
Beast Rider subclass for bloodrager
Arcane rider magus subclass

Important to note to ride the pet they need to be at least one size larger than you (so they must be large if your medium, etc)

Clerics too, Nature domain, or whatever.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Swordman_Red:

What stops your beloved melee-oriented cleric from being your frontliner?

Constant dead and miss a lot haha

1)Get high STR and heavy armor/shield;
2)Get high DEX and light armor, to-hit, to-damage will go through Weapon Finesse mythic feat;
3)Get a pet through Nature domain to have additional body to tank with/ride on;
4)Crusader cleric archetype if you really need that to-hit bonus.
Disregard that guy saying clerics need CON and CHA. Tanking in Pathfinder is not about huge health bar, it's about not getting hit.
Go high STR(or DEX) for to-hit/AC and high WIS for spells.

[GunStarX]

The problem with animal companions as tanks, including the mc mounted, is that the enemy ai is programed to attack the companions as one of the last options. You want your tank to agro, or what is the point.

Until the dlc update drops with the new mythic armor and shield feats it's hard to plan out a good sword and board tank unless you want to go all in with defensive feats for using a tss.

I think a decent option could be a steelblood bloodrager with arcane bloodline, and second bloodline serpent. Arcane gives you displacement (50% miss chance) when you enter bloodrage and serpent +5 ac by level 20. Steelblood gets you armor training like a fighter for higher dex bonus. You don't even need to use a shield since you get the shield spell, though a +5 heavy shield will get you 3 extra ac vs the spell. You also get some other nice defensive spells, and with mind blank in the later part of the game you don't have to worry about true seeing defeating your defensive spells

It's also probably one of the best martial classes for an azata since strength and charisma focused is ideal for azata melee superpowers and you don't have any alignment restrictions

[Etxxu]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Swordman_Red:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Reven_Shadow:

Classes that can have animal companions off the top of my head:
Ranges (almost every spec i believe starting from level 4, get boon companion feat)
Oracle that takes animal domain
Druid that chooses companion over other domain (certain druid specs cannot get pets)
Cavaliers
Hunters
Sohei Monk
Beast Rider subclass for bloodrager
Arcane rider magus subclass

Important to note to ride the pet they need to be at least one size larger than you (so they must be large if your medium, etc)

Clerics too, Nature domain, or whatever.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Etxxu:

Constant dead and miss a lot haha

1)Get high STR and heavy armor/shield;
2)Get high DEX and light armor, to-hit, to-damage will go through Weapon Finesse mythic feat;
3)Get a pet through Nature domain to have additional body to tank with/ride on;
4)Crusader cleric archetype if you really need that to-hit bonus.
Disregard that guy saying clerics need CON and CHA. Tanking in Pathfinder is not about huge health bar, it's about not getting hit.
Go high STR(or DEX) for to-hit/AC and high WIS for spells.

Ok, I will try a STR Cleric with heavy armor, any other thing to avoid being hit so much? I use Blur from Wolj too.

To avoid missing so much Divine power and what other thing do you recommend me?

Diposting pertama kali oleh talemore:

Clerics can have animal domain as well.
It is the most overpowered build to have a cleric or Oracle with animal companion. Channel negative energy will stack 2x your charisma stat later on.

Shifter is only good because of a bug and exploit. In own opinion shifting is such a bad thing since it increase your size and size has a huge impact in how the tank works. They exploit shifter by making it hit so fast and hard that the opponents don't even get a turn and as such they have defeated any source of damage by killing the game with a big stone.

Then I will take Imposible domain next time and choose animal domain (the Domain I was thinking on taking was only for roleplay porpuses)

But Channel negative energy is just to damage undead, isn't It?

Another problem I find is that most of my Buff spells don't stack... So I can only use Magical vestment and Shield of faith to AC and Divine power or the other called too Divine something to hit more often

[anfindel13]

Running a mounted Cavalier as tank in my Azata run, switching between sword and board and lance type when charging. Might not be a "power" choice, but he sure has fun slicing and dicing.

[canuck250]

Overall, your main tanking issues is from not good enough buffs and use of class.

Clerics lack bonus feats, melee combat and armour tanks need a lot of feats. So the way to make it work is to do dips, a monk dip for wis to ac (plus crane feat line) and witch dip for iceplant and lizard fam, this should get you +10 AC at level 4, 19 wis on creation, 20 at level 4.

Level 3 and under spells:
You lack access to barkskin spell, nature oracle gets this, potions/scrolls otherwise. +2.
Owl's wisdom and Cat's grace to bump up your to AC stats giving +4.
Reduce person +2 dex and 1 ac, you lose 2 str but gain +1 attack so that evens out, +3.
Bone fist is +1.
Haste is another +1.

At level 5 (when neino gets haste) you will have 10 base, 10 from dips, 11 from those spells gives you 31 AC before fighting defensively. Make sure to take 3 ranks of mobility to get an extra +1 ac while fighting defensively. Mage armour and other buffs like shield of faith can get you up to/over 40 ac that early.

Lann is such a good tank, his +2 ac from his race and monk class set him up very well.

You can also make Seelah into a good cha pyjama tank, good armour tank with multiclassing or with her horse as pure pally. Animals are not the best tanks for holding aggro but you can benefit off this.

Then pets, they are the ultimate fix all, they can tank, they can dps, they can trip, they can keep you warm on a cold night.

Leopard is the best pet early game. Highest AC out of the box and can trip.
Boar is one of the best end game tanks. Also has trip.
Dog is the best 2nd row, high str and free trip.
Wolf is a slightly worse Dog so still amazing and some are locked to wolf instead of dog.
Smil has the most attacks if you want a dps pet.
The rest have good flavour and pros but ultimately lag behind the top, one thing to consider is physical space taken up. A lot of combat areas are tight/doorways, chonky pets can be a giant pain.

[Kinoringan]

Well, in previous topic I did say your melee cleric is gonna take the dirt nap often no? :P

Okay first thing first, what stat did your melee cleric has at start? You did give your melee cleric an 18 str no? What weapon and feat did you choose? What God and domain did you choose?

Do you and your companions have pets? It helps tremendously.

Did you buff yourself, you listed some defensive buff, did you buff yourself offensively? Things like haste, stats increase buffs, enlarge, hope etc. Remember, this game is all about buffing. You will spend more time buffing than fighting.

What about your battle strategy? Did your tank charge in first before your other characters attack? Also make sure everyone focus fire. Try to focus on one enemy at a time.

What is your formation? Tank/pet must be in front while the rest can be behind (sometimes way back if they are squishy).

[Etxxu]

Diposting pertama kali oleh canuck250:

Overall, your main tanking issues is from not good enough buffs and use of class.

Clerics lack bonus feats, melee combat and armour tanks need a lot of feats. So the way to make it work is to do dips, a monk dip for wis to ac (plus crane feat line) and witch dip for iceplant and lizard fam, this should get you +10 AC at level 4, 19 wis on creation, 20 at level 4.

Level 3 and under spells:
You lack access to barkskin spell, nature oracle gets this, potions/scrolls otherwise. +2.
Owl's wisdom and Cat's grace to bump up your to AC stats giving +4.
Reduce person +2 dex and 1 ac, you lose 2 str but gain +1 attack so that evens out, +3.
Bone fist is +1.
Haste is another +1.

At level 5 (when neino gets haste) you will have 10 base, 10 from dips, 11 from those spells gives you 31 AC before fighting defensively. Make sure to take 3 ranks of mobility to get an extra +1 ac while fighting defensively. Mage armour and other buffs like shield of faith can get you up to/over 40 ac that early.

Lann is such a good tank, his +2 ac from his race and monk class set him up very well.

You can also make Seelah into a good cha pyjama tank, good armour tank with multiclassing or with her horse as pure pally. Animals are not the best tanks for holding aggro but you can benefit off this.

Then pets, they are the ultimate fix all, they can tank, they can dps, they can trip, they can keep you warm on a cold night.

Leopard is the best pet early game. Highest AC out of the box and can trip.
Boar is one of the best end game tanks. Also has trip.
Dog is the best 2nd row, high str and free trip.
Wolf is a slightly worse Dog so still amazing and some are locked to wolf instead of dog.
Smil has the most attacks if you want a dps pet.
The rest have good flavour and pros but ultimately lag behind the top, one thing to consider is physical space taken up. A lot of combat areas are tight/doorways, chonky pets can be a giant pain.

How do you Buff so much? I mean, that require a lot of spell slots and If you dip three classes you have less spell slots and you need soooo much time to buff (and most of the time enemies came from nowhere)

So 1 Monk, 1 Witch and 18 cleric?

How do you lvl Lann as a tank? (only if Lann is a better tank than Seelah and damage, at least, same than Seelah -as she, for now, is the companion that hit harder...-)

Thank you so much!

Diposting pertama kali oleh Kinoringan:

Well, in previous topic I did say your melee cleric is gonna take the dirt nap often no? :P

Okay first thing first, what stat did your melee cleric has at start? You did give your melee cleric an 18 str no? What weapon and feat did you choose? What God and domain did you choose?

Do you and your companions have pets? It helps tremendously.

Did you buff yourself, you listed some defensive buff, did you buff yourself offensively? Things like haste, stats increase buffs, enlarge, hope etc. Remember, this game is all about buffing. You will spend more time buffing than fighting.

What about your battle strategy? Did your tank charge in first before your other characters attack? Also make sure everyone focus fire. Try to focus on one enemy at a time.

What is your formation? Tank/pet must be in front while the rest can be behind (sometimes way back if they are squishy).

Yeah, you did and I know haha in. BG2 and NWN2 was the same, but here some spells I was planning to use are weaker or has different uses (BG2 is D&D 2), so I need to research more, but this Game has just too much options... Its overwhelming that much spells and classes and archerypes

15 STR, the god is Sheylin (I want a distant weapon so I don't get to much attention as its not my tank), domain Community. I don't have pets, but I guess I will have to take Imposible domain to get Animal domain

Buffs: Magical Vestment, Shield of faith, Divine power and the other Divine of Cleric lvl 7, haste from Nenio and Blur from Wolj, Bless and Prayer from Daeran and yet the f*** Seelah survives with no buffs and my Cleric die so easy haha (and enemies come to me despite of Seelah is always in front and I put myself in the rear of the formation, Seelah charge while Nenio set web and Slow, Wolj invisible to sneak attack and the feat Outflank, Regill do his things and then my Cleric go, start to revive attack from everyone and die haha