Kineticists are kinda breaking the game.

[Solar Sailer]

Hi guys and gals. Please don't call me a noob right away (i know i am) and hear me out.

I'm about 2/3 into my first playthrough and Im playing on Daring difficulty. The game was going great for me as far as challenge goes. Not too hard for the first time, not too easy. Of course I had to reload a few times before I could beat some of the harder enemies like Playful Darkness, but that's expected.


Then, in the middle of act 4, i thought that since most of the major enemies are so high up on AC and Saves, having a kineticist in the party with high energy & area skills kinda makes sense. So I've hired a new companion (pretty expensive too) and made him one.

And it kinda ruined the game for me. Basically kineticist is so powerfull that ALL of the fights became absolutely trivial and boring and are solved by that one character with some buffs from mage&cleric.

(as a side note, it's a Blue Flame + Deadly Earth kineticist + SP & Greater SP & Mythic SP)

And they don't even need a lot of equipment or rest.
Plus the fact that game AI can't properly react to area infusions doesn't help my enemies.

Before you say: "So just switch to Hard\Unfair" - it's not about that. This game has a few dozen classes and it's just weird that one of them is so above the rest.

So, do I just suck at properly building other classes or this evens out in the late game or kineticists really should be nerfed a bit ?


Thank you for all your replies !

[Frostfeather]

引用自 SmallGespenst：

I think it's less "Kineticists are incredibly busted" and more "deadly earth is incredibly busted"

Yeah I'm willing to bet it's still bugged to do damage twice when you first use it, just like it was in Kingmaker. Because all the other "do damage twice when you cast it" and "takes affect twice when you cast it" bugs from Kingmaker were transferred to Wrath, too.

[Donduffino]

引用自 EH!：

I've never used Kineticists (even in Kingmaker) as I find them impossible to understand.

Yeah, the game definitely doesn't explain at all how they work. I had to look up a guide online. They should do a better job with how they introduce the system in general.

[ayrtep]

Yes Kineticist are a powerful class, maybe the best built optimally. But if you are only playing on Daring you should at least up the difficulty if you are finding it too easy. A lot of other classes will also seem a bit too easy on daring, so that in itself does not suggest kineticists are OP.

Still an (Earth, Fire, Earth) or (Earth, Water, Fire) Kineticist is probably about as strong as it comes.

[Donduffino]

Another problem is he hasn't finished the game yet. One of the main complaints about the game is that it'll seem ridiculously easy for hours, then, all of the sudden, an encounter will seem all but impossible to beat, and it usually isn't even a boss encounter. Every post I've seen saying "whaaaaaaaa the game is too easy for me even on unfair.
Acknowledge my genius and ignore my humble brag" are from people who aren't even half way through.

[Quacksalber]

引用自 Donduffino：

引用自 EH!：

I've never used Kineticists (even in Kingmaker) as I find them impossible to understand.

Yeah, the game definitely doesn't explain at all how they work. I had to look up a guide online. They should do a better job with how they introduce the system in general.

I picked one up now. I've never played an OP character, so intrigued.

[Elnidfse]

That's just kineticist. That'll always be kineticist

[Acronen]

引用自 EH!：

I've never used Kineticists (even in Kingmaker) as I find them impossible to understand.

I was thinking this for awhile, and saw the 5 star difficulty rating and gave them a pass for the longest time (that, and I thought they were a psionic class, and I tend to not like psionics.) Then I decided to play one (Overwhelming Soul), and it was way easier than I thought. As you play, level up and get new abilities (you really don't get that many) it was easy to understand and use. Easier than pretty much any of the casters.

Also, I didn't find it any more powerful (actually less powerful so far) than a sorcerer. I even went with similar builds. Blaster based on lightning damage. On it's own, it's weaker than the sorcerer since the sorcerer brings a lot of utility through other spells. When using spells from other party members, it starts to shine and outdo the sorcerer in the damage department... until I got chain lightning, and would just wipe out entire encounters with one cast of it somehow.

Anyway, it's a pretty fun class. I didn't know about the broken deadly earth combo, and have never tried it. Just build one how you think it will be fun rather than reading a build guide and it won't be nearly as broken as people are saying, while still being strong. Oh yeah, and remember to switch off autocasting your blast for your kinetic blade in melee so you don't get attack of opportunitied into the ground. I learned that lesson the hard way a few times!

[wendigo211]

What makes Kineticists strong is that they have the ability to ignore the stat bloat, it doesn't matter what the enemy AC, Saves and DR are. Whether they're 1 or 1000, the Kineticist does the same damage to them once they get Wall, Deadly Earth, Cloud and Ascendant Element. If this game actually had balanced stats, then yeah, a lot of classes would be competitive with them, but no other class ignores stat bloat the way they do. If you're playing on the lower difficulties, then they're really nothing to write home about.

[ExcaliburV]

I haven't played a Kineticist in these games, but based on my understanding of the class from some tabletop experiences, they are basically a cannon DPS and nothing else. In a video game that has a lot of focus on combat, this might make it seem incredibly powerful, but at a table, they have practically no skills or class features that make them more useful beyond "I blast it again". They are the ultimate one-trick pony. That one trick just happens to be very well-fitting in the video game, since the biggest obstacle is often combat difficulty and not clever use of skills.

[Sotanaht]

引用自 Mindeveler：

引用自 sweetchilliheat：

Why does everyone talk about Deadly Earth but never Cloud? Its basically the same thing right?

Deadly Earth can knock down with the right feats. In Kingmaker it was the death sentence for enemies. They fall on the floor, they're trying to get up, they fall again, they try to leave the zone, but the zone is difficult terrain, so they're slow and all this time they receive huge damage.
Cloud is not that good, though the combination of them both is just instant wipe for an enemy party.

The knockdown is pretty pointless in WOTR. Almost everything is immune anyway, and there's little need to worry about knocking down what you can kill almost as fast. Probably better to avoid using the knockdown just in case you accidentally hit your own characters, so they at least have a chance to get out alive.

The main benefit to Deadly Earth is that it's available sooner. Deadly Earth can be taken at level 13 (requires at least level 12, the next infusion after 12 is taken at 13), Cloud requires at least level 14, but cannot be taken before level 17 because you get Expanded Element at 15 instead of an infusion.

If this were tabletop, Cloud would be better outside of knockdown by virtue of hitting airborne enemies. There's no such distinction in the game though. Of course, if this were tabletop then Deadly Earth and cloud would be hitting for a tiny fraction of the damage they currently do. They should do 1/4th blast damage on initial cast, and 1/2 blast damage on each turn. Instead they do 1x damage on each turn and 2x damage on cast.

[Quacksalber]

引用自 Acronen：

引用自 EH!：

I've never used Kineticists (even in Kingmaker) as I find them impossible to understand.

I was thinking this for awhile, and saw the 5 star difficulty rating and gave them a pass for the longest time (that, and I thought they were a psionic class, and I tend to not like psionics.) Then I decided to play one (Overwhelming Soul), and it was way easier than I thought. As you play, level up and get new abilities (you really don't get that many) it was easy to understand and use. Easier than pretty much any of the casters.

Also, I didn't find it any more powerful (actually less powerful so far) than a sorcerer. I even went with similar builds. Blaster based on lightning damage. On it's own, it's weaker than the sorcerer since the sorcerer brings a lot of utility through other spells. When using spells from other party members, it starts to shine and outdo the sorcerer in the damage department... until I got chain lightning, and would just wipe out entire encounters with one cast of it somehow.

Anyway, it's a pretty fun class. I didn't know about the broken deadly earth combo, and have never tried it. Just build one how you think it will be fun rather than reading a build guide and it won't be nearly as broken as people are saying, while still being strong. Oh yeah, and remember to switch off autocasting your blast for your kinetic blade in melee so you don't get attack of opportunitied into the ground. I learned that lesson the hard way a few times!

Thanks. I'd be surprised if I managed to make it op anyway. Even when I follow builds, I mess them up because I can never stick to instructions.

[bitb0602]

Kineticists are okay for me.
They are famous with their low highest damage, and high lowest damage.
I think all you need to do is try on harder difficulty, and then you would understand that Kineticist is just one of a fair option.

Physical Kineticist doesn't have high hit chance.
Energy Kineticist get ignore DC feat just a little too late in game, which makes it not that OP in the early act.

[ayrtep]

引用自 wendigo211：

What makes Kineticists strong is that they have the ability to ignore the stat bloat, it doesn't matter what the enemy AC, Saves and DR are. Whether they're 1 or 1000, the Kineticist does the same damage to them once they get Wall, Deadly Earth, Cloud and Ascendant Element. If this game actually had balanced stats, then yeah, a lot of classes would be competitive with them, but no other class ignores stat bloat the way they do. If you're playing on the lower difficulties, then they're really nothing to write home about.

Interesting. What about conjuring; pits and dropping stones on people?

Also I don't see the points of the tripping - seems a waste of feats. It might be fun to see people falling over, but the just get up again. Kineticsts don't get attacks of opportunity so some of the other effects seem more useful - assuming you are playing solo.

[Archaon The Never-Chosen]

引用自 ayrtep：

引用自 wendigo211：

What makes Kineticists strong is that they have the ability to ignore the stat bloat, it doesn't matter what the enemy AC, Saves and DR are. Whether they're 1 or 1000, the Kineticist does the same damage to them once they get Wall, Deadly Earth, Cloud and Ascendant Element. If this game actually had balanced stats, then yeah, a lot of classes would be competitive with them, but no other class ignores stat bloat the way they do. If you're playing on the lower difficulties, then they're really nothing to write home about.

Interesting. What about conjuring; pits and dropping stones on people?

Also I don't see the points of the tripping - seems a waste of feats. It might be fun to see people falling over, but the just get up again. Kineticsts don't get attacks of opportunity so some of the other effects seem more useful - assuming you are playing solo.

MC demon Keneticist gets a free attack someone fails a CMD check against them which is all those trips

[ApathicAlpaca]

3 Mythic Nafathingyfees accompanied by Succubus archers and 3 Balors: 'Now we gotcha, puny mortals. Tremble before the...'
Kineticist: 'It's game over man, game over.'