Suggestion for a lich character?

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

I was thinking about going Arcane Trickster ( wizard) but I don't know if Int is the casting modifier for lich or is it Cha?

[Mallas]

Go Cruromancer.

They go super well with Lich.

[dmitry.khalenkow]

it is INT. And you can merge the spellbooks and got the instant access to high level spells. Wizard AT+ lich is very powerful. You will be able to inaccurate any late-game boss and kill it in 2-3 rounds.

[ExcaliburV]

If you merge spellbooks wouldn't the casting stat be whatever your base class' caster stat is? I'm pretty sure my Sorcerer Lich used Cha. And if you're going Wizard, there's no harm in merging anyways.

[jsaving]

If you don't merge, liches have no casting stat but instead receive a DC bonus equal to their mythic level. If you do merge, then their casting stat is the same as the class you merged spellbooks with.

[Raistlin]

Do you want to do a caster lich, or a melee lich? Ideal caster class is sorcerer. I went sage sorcerer for extra spell selections. Also, took a level of loremaster for improved improved critical: ray. Alternatively, you could do a winter witch lich which goes ley line witch 8, winter witch 6, loremaster 5. However, you would need to add the spells you can't get from spell secret using toybox since loremaster is still broken. Specifically you want Icy Prison, Mass. There's some other stuff you'll want, but Icy Prison, Mass is the main one. The winter witch also needs to have the ring of boreal might, which you can get in act 1.

If you want to go melee lich, you can't go wrong with 1 scaled fist / 4 sorc / 4 dragon disciple / 10 eldritch knight / 1 loremaster for improved improved critical. You could swap sorc out for witch, but sorc has a better spellbook. You could also replace the loremaster with another level of sorc if you want, but the trickster feat is probably the best thing you could get with that last level.

Of course you want to merge spellbooks for any of these builds. You don't need to worry about focusing on a specific stat for lich. Spells scale off caster level, and number of spell slots scale off the main casting stat of the class you pick. So if you go Sage Sorcerer and merge spellbooks, your casting stat will be intelligence. If you go standard sorc, it will be charisma. Going charisma caster gives the benefit of increased hp after you complete your lich transformation. However, caster lich doesn't need to worry about that much since you'll have spells that will give you so hundreds of temporary hit points.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by rubberpig:

Do you want to do a caster lich, or a melee lich? Ideal caster class is sorcerer. I went sage sorcerer for extra spell selections. Also, took a level of loremaster for improved improved critical: ray. Alternatively, you could do a winter witch lich which goes ley line witch 8, winter witch 6, loremaster 5. However, you would need to add the spells you can't get from spell secret using toybox since loremaster is still broken. Specifically you want Icy Prison, Mass. There's some other stuff you'll want, but Icy Prison, Mass is the main one. The winter witch also needs to have the ring of boreal might, which you can get in act 1.

If you want to go melee lich, you can't go wrong with 1 scaled fist / 4 sorc / 4 dragon disciple / 10 eldritch knight / 1 loremaster for improved improved critical. You could swap sorc out for witch, but sorc has a better spellbook. You could also replace the loremaster with another level of sorc if you want, but the trickster feat is probably the best thing you could get with that last level.

Of course you want to merge spellbooks for any of these builds. You don't need to worry about focusing on a specific stat for lich. Spells scale off caster level, and number of spell slots scale off the main casting stat of the class you pick. So if you go Sage Sorcerer and merge spellbooks, your casting stat will be intelligence. If you go standard sorc, it will be charisma. Going charisma caster gives the benefit of increased hp after you complete your lich transformation. However, caster lich doesn't need to worry about that much since you'll have spells that will give you so hundreds of temporary hit points.

That's interesting. I bet that playing a caster would be much harder than a, say melee almost unhittable swordsaint :P

[Herr Glaube]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

That's interesting. I bet that playing a caster would be much harder than a, say melee almost unhittable swordsaint :P

When you can have a fully undead group and spam negative energy everywhere, getting hit isn't as relevant anymore.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Herr Glaube:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

That's interesting. I bet that playing a caster would be much harder than a, say melee almost unhittable swordsaint :P

When you can have a fully undead group and spam negative energy everywhere, getting hit isn't as relevant anymore.

I mean it takes 3 acts to get there, as the first two undead companions you get are in act 3 right?

[Raistlin]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Originally posted by Herr Glaube:

When you can have a fully undead group and spam negative energy everywhere, getting hit isn't as relevant anymore.

I mean it takes 3 acts to get there, as the first two undead companions you get are in act 3 right?

Lich also gets a spell that you can cast on party members so that they are treated as undead. That means they have all undead immunities and they are healed by negative energy. It's a 7th level spell, so you get access to it pretty quickly if you play full caster and merge spellbooks.

Sword Saint is not a very good choice for lich due to not being able to merge spellbooks. The merged spellbook for lich and angel is a pretty big deal. They're the reason those 2 paths are the strongest.

Caster is a little difficult early game, but that stops being a thing pretty quickly. Also, with lich spellbook, even if you do get hit it won't matter because you'll have 400+ temporary hp and extra DR 10/-. But you really shouldn't be getting hit as a full caster regardless.

That being said, melee is definitely stronger in WotR for various reasons, but full caster merged spellbook Lich is still strong enough to clear unfair difficulty. The game becomes a joke halfway through on core difficulty, so what you play doesn't matter too much. I soloed playful darkness with my sage sorcerer lich on core. In act 3. Not that core is particularly difficult, but people seem to have a hard time with that fight, so I figure that gives a decent idea of how competent full casters can be.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by rubberpig:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

I mean it takes 3 acts to get there, as the first two undead companions you get are in act 3 right?

Lich also gets a spell that you can cast on party members so that they are treated as undead. That means they have all undead immunities and they are healed by negative energy. It's a 7th level spell, so you get access to it pretty quickly if you play full caster and merge spellbooks.

Sword Saint is not a very good choice for lich due to not being able to merge spellbooks. The merged spellbook for lich and angel is a pretty big deal. They're the reason those 2 paths are the strongest.

Caster is a little difficult early game, but that stops being a thing pretty quickly. Also, with lich spellbook, even if you do get hit it won't matter because you'll have 400+ temporary hp and extra DR 10/-. But you really shouldn't be getting hit as a full caster regardless.

That being said, melee is definitely stronger in WotR for various reasons, but full caster merged spellbook Lich is still strong enough to clear unfair difficulty. The game becomes a joke halfway through on core difficulty, so what you play doesn't matter too much. I soloed playful darkness with my sage sorcerer lich on core. In act 3. Not that core is particularly difficult, but people seem to have a hard time with that fight, so I figure that gives a decent idea of how competent full casters can be.

Would arcane trickster make a good candidate for a lich character? I'm kind of undecided on which build to pick

[Lywelyn]

Cruromancer or crossblooded mages work wonder

[Blind Reverend]

pure arcane spellcaster classes (wizard, arcanist, warlock und witch) let you merge your spellbook to go for 30 casterlevel.
(same with angel path for clerics and oracles)

[Raistlin]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Would arcane trickster make a good candidate for a lich character? I'm kind of undecided on which build to pick

An important question to ask is which difficulty are you planning to play through the game on? If it's normal, then anything you choose will be fine. Core+ you need to be a little more picky. Do you have a build in mind? I figure you intend to go full caster to get sneak attack dice on your casts from 10th level of AT. That could work up to core. It might be a struggle on Hard. Unfair is probably not worth attempting. Also keep in mind you won't even get access to those sneak attack dice until more than halfway through the game.

It'll be tricky to fit everything in, and you may need to make some tough decisions with regards to your build. Lich full casters are going to want to start taking spell focus feats into necromancy and use expanded arsenal to share those feats with another magic school like conjuration or evocation. An arcane trickster is probably going to lean towards evocation, but conjuration is going to get a lot of use in the early levels.

You'll want to stack up lots of spell penetration as well, though spell penetration (mythic) is unnecessary if you're picking the right equipment and such. Going elf (basic) also gives some inherent spell pen.

If you plan on going melee lich, use eldritch knight instead of arcane trickster. AT has half BAB, which will seriously hold your MC back. EK has full BAB, it mostly preserves spellbook progression, and it counts as fighter levels for feats so you can take greater weapon focus and weapon focus mythic for even more AB.

But if you're playing on normal, you can pick whatever you want and stomp the game. My suggestions are really for people playing core and above. Aditionally, InEffect has a nice arcante trickster azata build on neoseeker. If you wanted to play a higher difficulty and lich wasn't set in stone you could use his build. If you're still set on lich, you could still look at his build and try to fit it into lich path.

[The Cystocot]

Chiming in to add to the chorus of Cruoromancers, can be a little rough early on due to limited spell slots, but once you get to Mythic & start taking abundant casting feats, by the time you properly start on the Lich path at the end of Act 2, you're ridiculously perfectly aligned for the path.

Innate Negative Energy affinity from Dhampir, a merge-capable spell book, and class-based buffs to increase spell DCs, sicken enemies & augment summons...you're already on the path of undeath, anyway, why not give yourself a head start? *grins*

[dwarfpcfan]

Any wizard class will work perfectly. Exploiter Wizard, Cruormancer, all work.

If loremaster wasn't bugged at the moment I would suggest Lore Master. But since it is, Arcane Trickster definitely works.

Or if you're willing to be patient and are ambitious.

You might consider going Wizard/Cleric then into Mystic Theurge.

Lich gets merged spellbooks for arcane spells. So Basically you get every spell in the game except for druid only spells.

Lots of fun in the endgame to have with that, but your early game will be harder since you'll need at least wizard 3/cleric 3 before you even start taking mystic theurge levels.