Bite not stacking

[dreamerjhk]

My oracle is a kitsune oracle with wolf faced curse.
Lv 15 (oracle 12, sohel 1, paladin 2, 12 BARB)

To my understanding, bite attack is supposes to stack (such as racial and class features)
and before 1.09c patch, martial page showed multiple bite attack (racial bite and oracle bite) , but after patching, just one bite attack shows.

My question is

1) Is this a bug? or multiple bite attack was the bug and was it fixed in recent patch?

2) Martial page does not show all the attacks, Is there a way to check all your number of attacks?

Thank you very much.

[lockedmind]

From tabletop standpoint bites certainly shouldn't stack. You have a bite attack because you have a strong jaw/sharp teeth from your race or class or curse or something. You usually don't get second unless you have two heads or something like that.

[GunStarX]

They used to stack in this game for sure, I had a half dozen on my first play through. Wolf scarred bite is definitely bugged, after level 5 it goes away unless it was just fixed

[ExcaliburV]

You shouldn't get multiple bite attacks even if you have two different sources that give you a bite attack.

Think of it like if you were to try and use two long swords in the same hand to get another attack. That's sort of what getting an extra bite attack that way would be equivalent to. Now, you can stack natural attacks by having different kinds of natural attacks- bite, gore, claws, etc, you can have all of those at once, but getting multiple attacks from the same weapon comes down to your BAB, not just getting more of the weapon.

[dreamerjhk]

you have only 2 hands but with bab 16 you get 4 attacks.
By logic shouldnt you be able to bite multiple times if you can move fast enought to swing multiple times?

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/guides/Natural_Attacks

[Miskatonic]

Bites stack in the video games, they don't in tabletop. Wolf-scarred face has been bugged, and the bite will disappear after a few levels. That's my guess to what happened.

[ExcaliburV]

Originally posted by dreamerjhk:

you have only 2 hands but with bab 16 you get 4 attacks.
By logic shouldnt you be able to bite multiple times if you can move fast enought to swing multiple times?

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/guides/Natural_Attacks

I'm a bit fuzzy on natural attack rules, but they work differently from normal attacks, if I remember right.

Basically, you have primary natural attacks and secondary natural attacks. Primary you get to add your full BAB to, secondary is BAB -5. If you swing a weapon and said weapon doesn't prevent you from using your natural attack (you can't use claws while swinging a sword, for example) then you can convert a primary natural attack into a secondary natural attack to add it to your full attack action. However, you cannot convert a secondary natural attack into a primary. I'm not completely sure, but I think the Kitsune/Wolf-scarred bites are only secondary.

BAB has no factor in how many natural attacks you get. If you have 2 claw natural attacks, that's it, BAB doesn't affect that. You have 2 claw attacks. It's why Seelah's horse in my game always has 3 attacks for the entire game.

The benefit is that you can stack natural attacks like crazy- provided they come from different sources. Dragons, for example, have bite as a primary attack, then 2 claws, 2 wings, and 1 tail attack as their secondaries, IIRC.

Going back to why Kitsune and Wolf-Scarred bite don't stack. Again, it's not adding a second bite attack. Like I said, it's similar to trying to hold two longswords in the same hand. You just can't. It's the same weapon coming from two different sources, and ultimately you can only use one of them. That's why if you take the demon mythic path, it specifically says that the claws you get give you two claw attacks. You have two hands, after all, but only one glorious muzzle.

[Babbles]

Originally posted by ExcaliburV:

You arn't listening dude, in the computer game, they *do* stack - the OP has encountered a bug :)

[phadin]

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by ExcaliburV:

You arn't listening dude, in the computer game, they *do* stack - the OP has encountered a bug :)

No, you're misunderstanding. Natural weapons like bite attacks stacking on one head is not how it should work. If they were holding true to tabletop rules, it's a bug.

That said, it's possible they've made a decision to completely disregard the rules of Natural WEapons. I have noticed they stacked multiple attacks from a limited number of natural weapons on demons as well. (6 attacks from a creature with only 2 claws? really?) Frankly, their attempt to over-tune the demons and other enemies is backfiring on them as now it's letting us stack natural weapons as well. This shouldn't happen, but they've really opened a can of worms by doing it for the badguys.


A good lesson on why you don't muck with game balance like this when translating.

[ExcaliburV]

Originally posted by Babbles:

You arn't listening dude, in the computer game, they *do* stack - the OP has encountered a bug :)

Welp, fair enough. XD

[mreed2]

I'd say that the bug was "If a character has bite attacks from multiple sources, the character makes one bite attack per source of bite attack in the same round," which has been fixed.

It might have been broken for a very long time (it sounds like it was an issue in Kingmaker), but just because it hasn't been fixed for a long time doesn't make it "Not a bug". :)

[dszombiex]

Oracle curses are bugged, you're just not getting the effects from wolf faced curse. Many oracle curses are bugged and the positive effects are not working.

[GunStarX]

The whole bite stacking debate wouldn't even be an issue if claw attacks increased with BAB. How does it make sense to swing a weapon multiple times, but not swipe with a claw?

[dszombiex]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

The whole bite stacking debate wouldn't even be an issue if claw attacks increased with BAB. How does it make sense to swing a weapon multiple times, but not swipe with a claw?

You can get 3 claw attacks at full attack bonus, that's plenty and they're at full attack bonus unlike multiple weapon attacks. Then you can add bite attacks on top of that.

[mreed2]

Originally posted by dszombiex:

Originally posted by GunStarX:

The whole bite stacking debate wouldn't even be an issue if claw attacks increased with BAB. How does it make sense to swing a weapon multiple times, but not swipe with a claw?

You can get 3 claw attacks at full attack bonus, that's plenty and they're at full attack bonus unlike multiple weapon attacks. Then you can add bite attacks on top of that.

If you want natural weapon attacks to get extra attacks as AB increases, consider dragons (with 5 natural attacks) that have character levels... A Fighter 20 dragon would get an absurd number of attacks.