Chapter 5 Sucks

[Saathiya]

I've just loaded the same battle for the 38th time in a row. Every single fight, your party members are taken out of combat and the entire thing becomes a boring movie. Whoever designed Chapter 5 has never been a DM or they'd know not to rob the player of all agency. And not only do these effects remove party members from combat, but also they can't be resisted, can't be removed, and last for way too many rounds.

Whoever designed the encounters for Chapter 5 shouldn't be allowed anywhere near encounter design, ever. They took a fun game and turned it into a boring, frustrating, tedious slog that you have to grind through until you pass by luck.

[Cruddy]

I could say the same for the whole game, If you don't min/max and know optimal builds you're screwed if you're on anything but the easiest possible settings.

I can only surmise that Owlcat seems to think all it's players are munchkin players who got kicked out of real D&D groups with thier gamebreaking ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and decided to balance around that what with DC saves of 35+, AC upwards of 60-70 and every 2nd enemy being Invisible/Concealed making stuff like Truesight/Thoughtsense required towards the end. Going even further I feel like Mythic levels are the excuse forasll the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, "oh the player can ignore 1's and deal some Damage on a miss even!" so that they can get away with some of this stuff.

[Baconfist]

Chapter 5 made me reduce difficulty to "story" level because i didn't have optimal builds.

[w.f.schepel]

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

I could say the same for the whole game, If you don't min/max and know optimal builds you're screwed if you're on anything but the easiest possible settings.

I can only surmise that Owlcat seems to think all it's players are munchkin players who got kicked out of real D&D groups with thier gamebreaking ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and decided to balance around that what with DC saves of 35+, AC upwards of 60-70 and every 2nd enemy being Invisible/Concealed making stuff like Truesight/Thoughtsense required towards the end. Going even further I feel like Mythic levels are the excuse forasll the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, "oh the player can ignore 1's and deal some Damage on a miss even!" so that they can get away with some of this stuff.

I am not too enthusiastic about encounter design, with a few exceptions, but what you are saying is simply not true. I am playing core. My builds are about as far you can get from min/max builds. Partially because I don't know all the cool tricks, but also because I am old fashioned and generally like to stick to 2 classes max, preferably mono. I get through the game just fine. Stick to a few cardinal rules:

- don't trigger combat with people/animals/constructs you can't afford to lose. (Skeletons!)
- bring a toolbox of counters, distraction (cannon fodder), protective spells and healing
- think before you act (I love turn based)

@ OP: if you restart a fight 38 times and still fail, maybe sleep on it and try something different? Because to me it sounds like you are trying to make something work that isn't going to work.

[Trentscousin]

I finished the game (lichmode) I played on "Toddler", it was still tricky with some of the boss fights.

As of 10-15-21 only 7.5% of players have finished the game. (?)

I am going full angel this time.

Game is challenging, if a person ever finished on "hardcore" I think he gets a red Corvette.

[mattwinfield]

I just dont have the patience to design my sculpted level 20 character before starting the game. I just cheat in all the feats, abilities, multiclass features or whatever because the pathfinder system as a whole sucks in allowing player agency.

If I want to duel wield exotic weapons, ride a tiger as a Paladin, and be viable right out the gate, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, cheating like crazy is what I'm going to do. None of this wait 10+ levels to finally be able to equip that 2nd hand weapon.

I find the combat to be tedium at best, and a complete hindrance to get to the narrative.
(*I find this to be the case in both Pathfinder and D&D systems).

[Wither]

Originally posted by mattwinfield:

I just dont have the patience to design my sculpted level 20 character before starting the game. I just cheat in all the feats, abilities, multiclass features or whatever because the pathfinder system as a whole sucks in allowing player agency.

If I want to duel wield exotic weapons, ride a tiger as a Paladin, and be viable right out the gate, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, cheating like crazy is what I'm going to do. None of this wait 10+ levels to finally be able to equip that 2nd hand weapon.

I find the combat to be tedium at best, and a complete hindrance to get to the narrative.
(*I find this to be the case in both Pathfinder and D&D systems).

It doesn't matter as long as it fun. If you enjoy the game, good for you! What's wrong with cheat and have a good laugh? This is not MMORPG.
But some people just want to test their stuff. Some even enjoy torture themselves, I will no patronizing it, which is what core level and above is for.

[Saathiya]

Originally posted by w.f.schepel:

@ OP: if you restart a fight 38 times and still fail, maybe sleep on it and try something different? Because to me it sounds like you are trying to make something work that isn't going to work.

Okay, I slept on it and my options are still to either keep reloading or start the whole game over, because Owlcat thought it would be a good idea to lock players into inescapable, nearly unbeatable encounters.

I actually reloaded until the RNG let me pass. And I'll have to do the same again. And this is after backing up to an earlier save and postponing Iz for the same problem. It's a fundamental part of their design that they lock you into unwinnable situations and try to make you start the whole game over to min/max like you have a PhD in Pathfinder.

For those of us who can't live on a video game, the choice boils down to too easy or impossible difficulty settings, with nothing in between. Just like every time any developer has ever designed around poopsockers with disrespect for everyone else.

As of this writing, 44 days post-release, 10% of players have completed their mythic transformation. You know, the feature forming the game's primary selling point. The one thing the game offers that isn't just another RPG. And 9 out of 10 people can't do it.

That's not a sign that things are going well.

[Quacksalber]

It's odd how people either say chapter 5 is a mammoth difficulty spike or way too easy.

For me, on my first playthrough, my main character really started to struggle in Act 5 and it got super tedious, although before that he was doing fine. My current one is miles better, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm breezing through feeling like a god, at least not all the time. A lot of boss battles etc. are easy, but then you get into random fights that are terrible. I had to reload the Deskari fight about 15-20 times trying to get him to drop a crystal and not standing on it , and sometimes I downed him in a few rounds (once instantly without anyone doing anything besides my main), and other times he was taking no damage at all.

[Trentscousin]

Less than 10% of people have finished this game............that says something.

I finished it (Full Lich, everyone hated/abandoned me....sniff) now going Full Angel (getting B*s from nearly everyone). (semi-kidding about the B*s).

I still enjoy playing it.

[The Cystocot]

Angel & Lich full playthroughs so far, both with their share of quirks. Alot of WotR's late-game seems to be figuring out ways to beat it at it's own game.

For the Angel, it was stupidly good buffs(halo aura + fortress of the faithful, you're the one-stop buff shop) & huge aoe spells like Wrath of the Righteous decimating battlefields.

For the Lich, Corrupted Blood could basically lock down everything, including Areelu Vorlesh herself, while my undead buffing aura + Areelu's own salvaged cape(found in her lab, fixed by the Storyteller, unique bonuses for each mythic path) bloated my party's stats, helping to work around the crazy high ACs, and Repurpose & later Flay for Purpose made the bad guys' bloated stats work FOR me, just watch where you drop your Bone Explosions. heh heh

Also, for casters in general, there's a couple Quarterstaves with fantastic buffs to CL & spell DCs available by the mid-game; really make caster builds shine while negating some of the crazy enemy Spell Resist ratings, and waving around a flame-engulfed staff just looks pretty badass.

Running Trickster atm, currently planning for the Persuasion super mythic trick to make my foes kill themselves, can't wait to see how that goes. :)

[phadin]

Originally posted by Meliora:

Originally posted by w.f.schepel:

@ OP: if you restart a fight 38 times and still fail, maybe sleep on it and try something different? Because to me it sounds like you are trying to make something work that isn't going to work.

Okay, I slept on it and my options are still to either keep reloading or start the whole game over, because Owlcat thought it would be a good idea to lock players into inescapable, nearly unbeatable encounters.

I actually reloaded until the RNG let me pass. And I'll have to do the same again. And this is after backing up to an earlier save and postponing Iz for the same problem. It's a fundamental part of their design that they lock you into unwinnable situations and try to make you start the whole game over to min/max like you have a PhD in Pathfinder.

For those of us who can't live on a video game, the choice boils down to too easy or impossible difficulty settings, with nothing in between. Just like every time any developer has ever designed around poopsockers with disrespect for everyone else.

As of this writing, 44 days post-release, 10% of players have completed their mythic transformation. You know, the feature forming the game's primary selling point. The one thing the game offers that isn't just another RPG. And 9 out of 10 people can't do it.

That's not a sign that things are going well.

Well, 'completing mythic transformation' means reaching Mythic Rank 9. That means well into the last act of the game. That % is going to be just a bit higher then the total number that have finished the game entirely. (I just got the mythic transformation achievement today).

over 40% of players have the Banner achievement, which means they have at least started down their chosen mythic path (Mythic tier 3). So I'd say a good chunk of the player base has at least made it into their unique mythic path, aka, the selling point of the game.

[phadin]

An beyond that... I've seen lots of games where the % of completion is only 10-20% of the playerbase. And that is years after release, not just a month or two. So I wouldn't be worried if only 10% have made it to Act 5 and Mythic 9 a month+ in. Especially given how long this game is.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by phadin:

An beyond that... I've seen lots of games where the % of completion is only 10-20% of the playerbase. And that is years after release, not just a month or two. So I wouldn't be worried if only 10% have made it to Act 5 and Mythic 9 a month+ in. Especially given how long this game is.

Yeah, was gonna say, that's pretty standard. I'd say 10% is actually quite high for such a new release, that's also long, not exactly noob friendly and with a juicy helping of bugs.

[Saathiya]

Well, that's all encouraging.

It's a hell of a gamble on Owlcat's part. Endgame difficulty can make replay get real. Or it can stop completion. If it turns out that first potential outcome works, all is forgiven.

These damn fear effects though. A fully transformed lich + dragon disciple in dragon form, with a pet skeletal dragon, shouldn't be so easily frightened. Cue images of this utterly monstrous and terrifying mythic being hiding on a chair because she spotted a mouse.

[Zef]

Originally posted by Meliora:

Well, that's all encouraging.

It's a hell of a gamble on Owlcat's part. Endgame difficulty can make replay get real. Or it can stop completion. If it turns out that first potential outcome works, all is forgiven.

These damn fear effects though. A fully transformed lich + dragon disciple in dragon form, with a pet skeletal dragon, shouldn't be so easily frightened. Cue images of this utterly monstrous and terrifying mythic being hiding on a chair because she spotted a mouse.

What if it's a mythical Mouse of Doom , though ?