Typical Owlcat - Defending Defender's Heart *spoilers*

[SoundsOfNight]

Why you gotta be so mean spirited, Owlcat? This fight is laughably difficult without a very specific setup and approach.

And clearly the stopping point for this battle was killing the Minotaur...but nooooo, we need a gazillion more swarms.

Come on now...

[Lex]

[Sashenka]

On which difficulty are you?

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

And clearly the stopping point for this battle was killing the Minotaur...but nooooo, we need a gazillion more swarms.

The minotaur *should* be the last wave of the fight, if you've been killing all of the arsonists.

The generic enemies spawn infinitely until the minotaur and the arsonists are dead. Plus they almost always fail to get past crowd control spells.

[DarkFenix]

I'd say the fight is laughably easy if you have even the slightest idea what you're doing. My first time it dragged on to 30 rounds because I didn't, but I was never in any danger, and that was on core difficulty. Now that I do know what I'm doing it scarcely lasts 15 turns.

Kill the arsonists, kill the minotaur. What's so hard about that? If you've built a party to do something other than kill the bad guys, I'm really not sure what you're hoping to achieve in this game.

[Balekai]

Easiest thing to do I found was to have a main or one of your casters take selective spell, meta magic Grease/Web with it, and place them:

1. At the initial gate breach with the first set of spawns, with your tank here and 1-2 ranged characters picking off the arsonists.
2. One for each ladder going to to rooftop, with 2-3 party members up there.
3. One Grease or Web (selective like the Greases) at the other gate where the Minotaur comes in.

Most of the enemies will be laying in oil for the entire fight. Also allows you to easily get the achievement for saving all 12 buildings.

Edit: Really this battle and using the Desna priests in Grey Garrison are basically tutorials for what CC spells can do to make your whole life easier.

[fortesama]

Unless you've been dallying, not only will your team should be around level 4 by that point, but you should have Nenio, who can learn grease and create pit, and have enough slots for a good number of castings. Both those spells can really stem the tide of the minions while the arsonists are largely harmless since they keep focus firing on the buildings, letting you pick them off while the enemies are cc'd by grease/pit.

Minotaur AND all the arsonits must be dead to finish the fight since the fighters just spawn endlessly otherwise.

[Cpt_Weisemann]

It was a fun fight. I played on TB mod, and it was easy. But I had 3 mercenaries, 1 did and 1 cleric and an alchemist. Also I was lvl 5.

[Von Herbst]

The Problem isnt the difficulty, its the lengh. after all, at level 3 or 4 (no idea how it can be possible to be 5 at this point) everyone can easly die by 2 crits of every non generic mob and honestly, the critical... crit really seems to love the round right befor the minotauris comes in.
Guess thats the only fight i played at least parts of in real time.
I still like the whole last man standing thing here, but holy, all the roll-a-2-checks ive missed here.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

Why you gotta be so mean spirited, Owlcat? This fight is laughably difficult without a very specific setup and approach.

"Very specific setup and approach" being "use CC spells on the obvious choke points"? It's trivial if you use a basic modicum of really simple strategy.

[Dark Leviathan]

I played on hard and found the fight quite easy. I just cast entangle on the front gate. Than i ran my entire party onto the roof. I had both my tanks camping the stairs so no one could get through. At this point you are golden. Just pick off arsonists and keep your tanks healed. once the Minotaur spawns he will run up the stairs, focus him down than kill the remaining arsonists.

Also to make the fight super easy only spend money on scrolls. The guy selling them has crazy high level scrolls, by the time i got to the defender mission i had 5 polymorph into greater dragon scrolls, 4 summon monster level 6 scrolls, 4 summon huge elemental scrolls.
Start the fight summon everything and laugh.

Well, actually don't buy the huge wind elemental scroll that guy will do this dumb spin attack that hits everything including your team. The wind elemental killed most of my team by accident.

[Razorblade]

Honestly, it's one of the better balanced fights in the game. All you really need are a few grease spells/scrolls for the chokepoints, and you're golden. Pretty obvious when you are forewarned that you'll be fighting a defensive siege, imo.

The fight is also very easy to skip if you're not spamming rests while completing Act 1's main objectives.

[Gregor Eisenhorn]

I think the fight does a good job in making it clear that you *need* CCs in Pathfinder. Grease specifically is incredibly OP (a specialist Conjurer trivialized the entirety of Kingmaker on Core difficulty back in the day and although in WotR there are enemies with a lot of immunities, conjuration it's still invaluable).

What i agree with is that, since it's both early game and early level, the game should probably open a window before the battle and tell you something along the lines of: "hey, this is a very difficult battle, you'll need certain CCs in order to progress effectively. This is to showcase how a simple crowd control spell can drastically change a battle in your favor, so try using grease on the main entrance, and on the stairs, and remember that grease stacks with multiple casts in the same spot", etc.

[Lightning]

Aoe CC is your best friend in that fight, CC everything else while downing the demon and mino then kill everything else

[Graess]

Originally posted by Gregor Eisenhorn:

I think the fight does a good job in making it clear that you *need* CCs in Pathfinder. Grease specifically is incredibly OP (a specialist Conjurer trivialized the entirety of Kingmaker on Core difficulty back in the day and although in WotR there are enemies with a lot of immunities, conjuration it's still invaluable).

What i agree with is that, since it's both early game and early level, the game should probably open a window before the battle and tell you something along the lines of: "hey, this is a very difficult battle, you'll need certain CCs in order to progress effectively. This is to showcase how a simple crowd control spell can drastically change a battle in your favor, so try using grease on the main entrance, and on the stairs, and remember that grease stacks with multiple casts in the same spot", etc.

No , pls dont. I dont want to be treated from a game like i am a full moron.

[Gregor Eisenhorn]

Originally posted by Graess:

Originally posted by Gregor Eisenhorn:

I think the fight does a good job in making it clear that you *need* CCs in Pathfinder. Grease specifically is incredibly OP (a specialist Conjurer trivialized the entirety of Kingmaker on Core difficulty back in the day and although in WotR there are enemies with a lot of immunities, conjuration it's still invaluable).

What i agree with is that, since it's both early game and early level, the game should probably open a window before the battle and tell you something along the lines of: "hey, this is a very difficult battle, you'll need certain CCs in order to progress effectively. This is to showcase how a simple crowd control spell can drastically change a battle in your favor, so try using grease on the main entrance, and on the stairs, and remember that grease stacks with multiple casts in the same spot", etc.

No , pls dont. I dont want to be treated from a game like i am a full moron.

Hahahaha, fair point, but there's nothing wrong in acknowledging that you don't know how the Pathfinder system is supposed to be played (despite being deceptively similar to DnD 3.5). It's supposed to be a hard fight.
You could also put these kind of tips behind a check box in the options.