Why would a Fighter choose Dragonheir Scion?

[Dolyngwen]

They would have no caster levels for Arcane Strike, yes? Why is Arcane Strike even there if Fighters can't use it? Is it for them if they take a few caster lvls?

[Naked Granny]

Yes.

Fighter is an extremely flexible class since it doesn't really have many class features that require you to stay in the class since Armor / Weapon Training just do what they say they do when you get them, and it's a purely personal benefit. You just take enough Fighter levels to get what you want and you don't have to go further in the class for those benefits to remain just as relevant.

Compared to other classes where your spell save DCs stop keeping up with enemy saves if you don't keep getting more powerful spells, for example.

So although Fighter is perfectly competent to just be a pureclass character if you want, it's also a class that various builds commonly "dip" into just to steal a few goodies like weapon and armor proficiency, a bonus feat or two (first two levels of Fighter each give you a combat feat as a bonus) and hit points.

To put it bluntly... everyone else wants what Fighter has. And Fighter is such a good guy lacking any form of self-respect he lets them just take it.

[Dolyngwen]

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

Yes.

Fighter is an extremely flexible class since it doesn't really have many class features that require you to stay in the class since Armor / Weapon Training just do what they say they do when you get them, and it's a purely personal benefit. You just take enough Fighter levels to get what you want and you don't have to go further in the class for those benefits to remain just as relevant.

Compared to other classes where your spell save DCs stop keeping up with enemy saves if you don't keep getting more powerful spells, for example.

So although Fighter is perfectly competent to just be a pureclass character if you want, it's also a class that various builds commonly "dip" into just to steal a few goodies like weapon and armor proficiency, a bonus feat or two (first two levels of Fighter each give you a combat feat as a bonus) and hit points.

Could I dip into Sorcery for a few levels, up my caster levels so Arcane Strike would be more useful? Plus I would get some Sorcery skills. Or should I go Sorcery and dip into Fighter to get heavy armor? I essentially want to play a fighter/sorcerer with heavy plate and longsword. This is for RP reasons, may be a horrible build though :(

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Dolyngwen:

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

Yes.

Fighter is an extremely flexible class since it doesn't really have many class features that require you to stay in the class since Armor / Weapon Training just do what they say they do when you get them, and it's a purely personal benefit. You just take enough Fighter levels to get what you want and you don't have to go further in the class for those benefits to remain just as relevant.

Compared to other classes where your spell save DCs stop keeping up with enemy saves if you don't keep getting more powerful spells, for example.

So although Fighter is perfectly competent to just be a pureclass character if you want, it's also a class that various builds commonly "dip" into just to steal a few goodies like weapon and armor proficiency, a bonus feat or two (first two levels of Fighter each give you a combat feat as a bonus) and hit points.

Could I dip into Sorcery for a few levels, up my caster levels so Arcane Strike would be more useful? Plus I would get some Sorcery skills. Or should I go Sorcery and dip into Fighter to get heavy armor? I essentially want to play a fighter/sorcerer with heavy plate and longsword. This is for RP reasons, may be a horrible build though :(

I strongly recommend against attempting to wear heavy armor if you want to cast arcane spells, especially if you want to use Sorcerer and Fighter levels to attempt to do it. Wrath just does not have the kind of options you would need to make that work.

If you want to be an arcane mage knight, use the Magus or Skald classes instead until someone releases a mod to expand build options with more archetypes and feats. Although the Eldritch Knight PrC's capstone is really really really nice, it requires you to give up a *lot* to get it. And Wrath does not do it correctly because the PrC does not give you several extremely crucial and necessary features that it has in PnP.

[Princess Pilfer]

It's pretty much exclusively RP only.
Dragonheir scion gives up *way* more than you'd give up by just taking 1 level or sorcerer or magus or monk on a much better fighter subclass. (Mutagen Warrior being the standout but two-handed fighter, vanilla, and tower shield specialist, likely in that order, are all decent)

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by Dolyngwen:

Why would a Fighter choose Dragonheir Scion?

Because braindead and can't read or count feats? idk. Why would anyone choose a scuffed archetype with half of its feats missing? DS should replace armor training with nat armor and energy resistance. DS should have ability to augment arcane strike with a specific energy type based on chosen bloodline. DS should get wings at 15 and replace fighter's lvl20 weapon mastery with lvl20 special talent. ALL OF THIS is missing for no reason.
TL;DR: do not pick this class until owlcat fix their ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Donnicton]

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

Originally posted by Dolyngwen:

Could I dip into Sorcery for a few levels, up my caster levels so Arcane Strike would be more useful? Plus I would get some Sorcery skills. Or should I go Sorcery and dip into Fighter to get heavy armor? I essentially want to play a fighter/sorcerer with heavy plate and longsword. This is for RP reasons, may be a horrible build though :(

I strongly recommend against attempting to wear heavy armor if you want to cast arcane spells, especially if you want to use Sorcerer and Fighter levels to attempt to do it. Wrath just does not have the kind of options you would need to make that work.

If you want to be an arcane mage knight, use the Magus or Skald classes instead until someone releases a mod to expand build options with more archetypes and feats. Although the Eldritch Knight PrC's capstone is really really really nice, it requires you to give up a *lot* to get it. And Wrath does not do it correctly because the PrC does not give you several extremely crucial and necessary features that it has in PnP.

Also worth noting on the topic of arcane spells in heavy armor, that Order of the Gate is bugged and does not recognize Hellknight Signifier levels as Hellknight levels, so in order to fully eliminate cast failure in heavy armor in this fashion you'd need to take both regular Hellknight levels along with Hellknight Signifier levels, which defeats the purpose.

[Princess Pilfer]

The best heavy armored '''caster''' is probably kinetic knight. It's significantly less good than base kineticist but it's still a kineticist and so it's still more than capable of trip-locking and/or 1shotting most enemies, just with some extra caveats.
Though as you advance in the game it's very likely you'll actually go from heavy, to medium, and likely down to light armor, simply because kinetic knight works best as a dex+con class as STR is kinda a bad stat, so you'll use lighter and lighter armor as your dex increases throughout the game.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Alm:

Originally posted by Dolyngwen:

Why would a Fighter choose Dragonheir Scion?

Because braindead and can't read or count feats? idk. Why would anyone choose a scuffed archetype with half of its feats missing? DS should replace armor training with nat armor and energy resistance. DS should have ability to augment arcane strike with a specific energy type based on chosen bloodline. DS should get wings at 15 and replace fighter's lvl20 weapon mastery with lvl20 special talent. ALL OF THIS is missing for no reason.
TL;DR: do not pick this class until owlcat fix their ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

They do get it look at the bloodline. further down the line.

[bumpboy23703]

Doesn't SteelBlood Bloodrager remove all ASF.
I know in Beta it did for non-bloodrager spells, did they fix it?

[Adamant Alliterator]

Late to the party as usual, but, I read the comments here about best caster in armor, and no one mentions Magus? Magi can fight in heavy armor with no penalty to arcane spell failure chance, and gets the benefit of fighter training. You're basically already a fighter who casts spells, unless it's bugged.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Naked Granny:

Compared to other classes where your spell save DCs stop keeping up with enemy saves if you don't keep getting more powerful spells, for example.

There is no saves against proper Ray spells. So 3-bloodline and go for a kill :)

[corisai]

Originally posted by Adamant Alliterator:

Late to the party as usual, but, I read the comments here about best caster in armor, and no one mentions Magus? Magi can fight in heavy armor with no penalty to arcane spell failure chance, and gets the benefit of fighter training. You're basically already a fighter who casts spells, unless it's bugged.

Because Kensai was >>> any other melee Magus, especially before Owlcats added a dino bones vendor.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Alm:

Originally posted by Dolyngwen:

Why would a Fighter choose Dragonheir Scion?

Because braindead and can't read or count feats? idk. Why would anyone choose a scuffed archetype with half of its feats missing? DS should replace armor training with nat armor and energy resistance. DS should have ability to augment arcane strike with a specific energy type based on chosen bloodline. DS should get wings at 15 and replace fighter's lvl20 weapon mastery with lvl20 special talent. ALL OF THIS is missing for no reason.
TL;DR: do not pick this class until owlcat fix their ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Shouldn't its Bloodline also progress with Dragon Disciple? And its Arcane Strike be actually, idk, Draconic Strike and scale with DS levels, NOT Caster levels?

But yeah, it's yet another scuffed, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up Archetype. Just don't pick it. Until someone fixes it.