See Invisibility doesn't work btw

[Fluff]

_o_/

[Babbles]

It never did in Kingmaker either :)

However things like Blindsense, and now Lifesense do work, you can see the hidden baddies in Minagho's lair with them.

And true seeing is great as well.

[Babbles]

Originally posted by NihilVerum:

In what way? I assume it doesn't counteract combat maluses from invisibility?

It is something like a flag for 'stealth' or 'hidden' - see invisible only works for *invisibility spelled enemies* - which I don't think is the PnP interpretation.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

See invisibility doesn't counter stealth only invisibility. For example a will o the wisp has natural invisibility which see invisio does work against BUT they also still have like a +40 stealth check. To see them requires you to both have see invisibility AND a really high perception check.

See invisibility definatly works as i've used it to find invisible enemies in combat--- but certain enemies still cant be found even with it do to really high stealth modifiers.

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by NihilVerum:

In what way? I assume it doesn't counteract combat maluses from invisibility?

It is something like a flag for 'stealth' or 'hidden' - see invisible only works for *invisibility spelled enemies* - which I don't think is the PnP interpretation.

In pen and paper invisibility gives you a +20 to stealth checkes and a +40 if you are standing still. If you have see invisibility it negates the stealth bonus but if they still roll a high stealth you won't see them. It doesn't negate stealth at all, and there are some forms of invisibility you need true sight for. IE if it makes you etheral, for example you seem invisible but you aren't really on that plane anymore to be seen.

[Rosh+]

90% of the time not even something as advanced as True Seeing works because the enemies in a lot of ambush encounters don't really exist until you are actually ambushed. They're spawned in. It's just lazy design, but I don't really mind.

As a rule of thumb I level Perception skill on every character too, so I don't have to reload if I see somebody fail a Perception check.

[Lightning]

I thought the See Invisiblity was only to see traps and hidden objects better

[Babbles]

Originally posted by Rosh+:

90% of the time not even something as advanced as True Seeing works because the enemies in a lot of ambush encounters don't really exist until you are actually ambushed. They're spawned in. It's just lazy design, but I don't really mind.

Yeah - the whole 'demons can teleport' thing really let Owlcat take a hard pass at a lot of encounter ingenuity.

[Babbles]

Originally posted by Lightning:

I thought the See Invisiblity was only to see traps and hidden objects better

The hint is in the name ...

[Babbles]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

See invisibility doesn't counter stealth only invisibility. For example a will o the wisp has natural invisibility which see invisio does work against BUT they also still have like a +40 stealth check. To see them requires you to both have see invisibility AND a really high perception check.

See invisibility definatly works as i've used it to find invisible enemies in combat--- but certain enemies still cant be found even with it do to really high stealth modifiers.

Originally posted by Babbles:

It is something like a flag for 'stealth' or 'hidden' - see invisible only works for *invisibility spelled enemies* - which I don't think is the PnP interpretation.

In pen and paper invisibility gives you a +20 to stealth checkes and a +40 if you are standing still. If you have see invisibility it negates the stealth bonus but if they still roll a high stealth you won't see them. It doesn't negate stealth at all, and there are some forms of invisibility you need true sight for. IE if it makes you etheral, for example you seem invisible but you aren't really on that plane anymore to be seen.

Cool, well, the take away is the spell is ♥♥♥♥ in both cRPG and PnP :)

[Entreri]

Originally posted by Lightning:

I thought the See Invisibility was only to see traps and hidden objects better

No. It works on anything that's invisible. It could be an object you cast invisibility on, or an invisible creature. A hidden object wouldn't be detected by see invisibility since it's not made to find hidden people or items, only things that are actually invisible.

As an example if you cast invisibility on a person or object and put that thing in the middle of a room see invisibility means it's no longer invisible to whoever has it cast on them.

If someone or something is just hiding see invisibility does nothing. So if someone is hiding behind a crate so they can ambush you it's not going to let you see through the crate or give you some version of Spiderman's spider-sense so you can move out of the way at the last moment.

[Fluff]

Well you can't stealth in the open field 1 meter infront of someone's face. I got it game has no logic at all, but still.

They should rly rethink the mechanics above Stealth in the open area while affected by see invisibility.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

See invisibility doesn't counter stealth only invisibility. For example a will o the wisp has natural invisibility which see invisio does work against BUT they also still have like a +40 stealth check. To see them requires you to both have see invisibility AND a really high perception check.

See invisibility definatly works as i've used it to find invisible enemies in combat--- but certain enemies still cant be found even with it do to really high stealth modifiers.



In pen and paper invisibility gives you a +20 to stealth checkes and a +40 if you are standing still. If you have see invisibility it negates the stealth bonus but if they still roll a high stealth you won't see them. It doesn't negate stealth at all, and there are some forms of invisibility you need true sight for. IE if it makes you etheral, for example you seem invisible but you aren't really on that plane anymore to be seen.

Cool, well, the take away is the spell is ♥♥♥♥ in both cRPG and PnP :)

in the CRPG? it has its uses... was a boss fight where one of the bosses used greater inviso and was buffing and healing the boss while she was invisible. Using see inviso let me see where she was to put a stop to that which is why i can say its working as intended. As far as the game goes when you attack or use an ability it breaks stealth, but not greater inviso. So having it on is beneficial in certain fights.

That said using it to spot enemies before they appear is basically useless do to owlcat either giving them gigantic stealth modifiers or spawning them in on top of you.

As for table top it is very powerful, because stealth is alot harder to maintain in pen and paper. As things like lightning, and positioning will apply penalties on stealth which i dont think is factored into the CRPG. Then again, shooting an arrow auto breaks stealth in this game, when in table top it doesn't... you get like a -10 or 20 to your stealth check BUT its very possible to maintain stealth while sniping in tabletop.

essentially the problem isn't see inviso its owlcat and there teleporting ambushes most of the time.

[There is no Mango]

As a neophyte, I would sure love a clear consolidated tutorial on these mechanics and how they interact and are countered :

- stealth
- invisibility
- concealment

Now stealth can be helped against by glitter dust spell for example.

Invisibility, eh, see invisibility but it doesn't seem to be used often.

Now concealment, i guess stuff like blur, displacement etc. ... I distinctively remember using true seeing on Woljif to kill 100 faces in Blackwater.
And despite using true seeing there were still some misses because of concealment which puzzles me a bit ...

[budo17]

As other have said, it was like this in Kingmaker, too. The game doesn't pre-generate these units and have them roam the map in stealth or invisible. It instead spawns them in on-the-fly when the player hits certain location triggers, so basically the "detect invisibility" spells do not have the function that they would in a proper tabletop game.

[Rommel]

I use True Seeing all the time. You need nothing else.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by NihilVerum:

In what way? I assume it doesn't counteract combat maluses from invisibility?

It is something like a flag for 'stealth' or 'hidden' - see invisible only works for *invisibility spelled enemies* - which I don't think is the PnP interpretation.

It is the PnP RAW.

See Invis does what it says on the tin. It lets you see things that have been rendered invisible. It does not let you see through barriers or dense vapors and smoke, it does not illuminate creatures to bring them to your attention so if they are just being sneaky you still need to actually notice them with a Perception check.

See Invis does not allow you to ignore other illusory effects like Blur or Displacement or Mirror Image because the real subject is not invisible - the spells are just confusing your interpretation of what you see, and that is not within the purview of a simple level 2 divination to fix for you.

So, to recap, things that See Invis does nothing to help you deal with:

Blur, Displacement, Mirror Image, Stealth skill (including Hide In Plain Sight), Concealment from fog / cloud (like Stinking Cloud or Cloudkill), disguises (whether from shapeshifting or illusions) or line of sight obstructions (like dungeon walls).

The only thing See Invisible addresses:

Vanish, Invisibility and Greater Invisibility, as well as (Su)pernatural intrinsic invisibility (like Will-O-Wisps, Invisible Stalkers and similar creatures).