Mythic spells need a rework

[Isseus]

There's a huge problem with the mythic spells that the mythic paths give you: They're outdated the moment you get them. I just got a new mythic rank as a trickster, and got my amazing lvl 3 spells. I can now use a weaker version of greater invisibility and stuff. The sad part is: I can already cast the actual greater invisibility spell. And have been for 7 levels. That's right, I just unlocked those amazing lvl 3 spells at level 15. And I can't even add them to my class's actual spell list, I'm limited to those sad separate slots that the trickster gets.

Even if I wasn't a full caster, those spells would still be useless, with the added salt in the wound that I wouldn't have the caster level or spell penetration to actually use them, because those spells, once again, are based on a far lower caster class than my character. When even a paladin is a stronger spellcaster than a mythic trickster, you done goofed.

Suggestion: Make the fisrt mythic spells available far earlier, the moment you get your first mythic levels and pick the alignment, and not when you pick your actual mythic class. Now all the work you've done on making all those fun spells go to waste because they're useless when you finally get them.

[★ PENTA Vivian ★]

Originally posted by Isseus:

There's a huge problem with the mythic spells that the mythic paths give you: They're outdated the moment you get them. I just got a new mythic rank as a trickster, and got my amazing lvl 3 spells. I can now use a weaker version of greater invisibility and stuff. The sad part is: I can already cast the actual greater invisibility spell. And have been for 7 levels. That's right, I just unlocked those amazing lvl 3 spells at level 15. And I can't even add them to my class's actual spell list, I'm limited to those sad separate slots that the trickster gets.

Even if I wasn't a full caster, those spells would still be useless, with the added salt in the wound that I wouldn't have the caster level or spell penetration to actually use them, because those spells, once again, are based on a far lower caster class than my character. When even a paladin is a stronger spellcaster than a mythic trickster, you done goofed.

Suggestion: Make the fisrt mythic spells available far earlier, the moment you get your first mythic levels and pick the alignment, and not when you pick your actual mythic class. Now all the work you've done on making all those fun spells go to waste because they're useless when you finally get them.

For real. Lich has many spells but the only ones worth a note are false grace for temp hp, exsanguinate for temp hp and dmg, feast of blood for aoe dmg and temp hp, repurpose to get minions and restore undead as it's hard to heal as a lich and it's best undead healing spell. Rest are really meh imo.

[ColonoscoPete]

Lich spells are great.

[Takichi]

Originally posted by Sordahon:

Originally posted by Isseus:

There's a huge problem with the mythic spells that the mythic paths give you: They're outdated the moment you get them. I just got a new mythic rank as a trickster, and got my amazing lvl 3 spells. I can now use a weaker version of greater invisibility and stuff. The sad part is: I can already cast the actual greater invisibility spell. And have been for 7 levels. That's right, I just unlocked those amazing lvl 3 spells at level 15. And I can't even add them to my class's actual spell list, I'm limited to those sad separate slots that the trickster gets.

Even if I wasn't a full caster, those spells would still be useless, with the added salt in the wound that I wouldn't have the caster level or spell penetration to actually use them, because those spells, once again, are based on a far lower caster class than my character. When even a paladin is a stronger spellcaster than a mythic trickster, you done goofed.

Suggestion: Make the fisrt mythic spells available far earlier, the moment you get your first mythic levels and pick the alignment, and not when you pick your actual mythic class. Now all the work you've done on making all those fun spells go to waste because they're useless when you finally get them.

For real. Lich has many spells but the only ones worth a note are false grace for hp, exsanguinate for dmg, feast of blood for dmg, repurpose to get minions and restore undead as it's hard to heal as a lich and it's best undead healing spell. Rest are really meh imo.

Play as Graveguard, get Fighter and take the Lich Path and have some fun ;)
Ofc is a Extra Spellbook nearly useless, if you already play a Caster Class..... Thats nothing new and to be expected.

[ColonoscoPete]

Originally posted by Sordahon:

Originally posted by Isseus:

There's a huge problem with the mythic spells that the mythic paths give you: They're outdated the moment you get them. I just got a new mythic rank as a trickster, and got my amazing lvl 3 spells. I can now use a weaker version of greater invisibility and stuff. The sad part is: I can already cast the actual greater invisibility spell. And have been for 7 levels. That's right, I just unlocked those amazing lvl 3 spells at level 15. And I can't even add them to my class's actual spell list, I'm limited to those sad separate slots that the trickster gets.

Even if I wasn't a full caster, those spells would still be useless, with the added salt in the wound that I wouldn't have the caster level or spell penetration to actually use them, because those spells, once again, are based on a far lower caster class than my character. When even a paladin is a stronger spellcaster than a mythic trickster, you done goofed.

Suggestion: Make the fisrt mythic spells available far earlier, the moment you get your first mythic levels and pick the alignment, and not when you pick your actual mythic class. Now all the work you've done on making all those fun spells go to waste because they're useless when you finally get them.

For real. Lich has many spells but the only ones worth a note are false grace for hp, exsanguinate for dmg, feast of blood for dmg, repurpose to get minions and restore undead as it's hard to heal as a lich and it's best undead healing spell. Rest are really meh imo.

Seriously? Negative eruption is fantastic!
And flay for purpose. Literally the only lich spells I've never used are, power from death, and corrupted blood.

[Tealex]

Lol, corrupted blood is insane, you can basically permastun most bosses since many are not immune to nauseated. It does not count as death magic (though it does not work against undead) and no resist. It is just wonky since when you kill them they explode (unless they have saved and are just sickened) and deal way much more damage then stated and in a wider range than stated. If you have summons they might die and explode which will wipe your party with 200+ dmg easily

Most lich spells are insane and useful however Sirrocco with mythic fire (immun/resist dsnt work) usually does the trick. Wail of the banshee is also nice along with negative eruption since you can make all your companions undead with "touch of unlife" or something.

[Draken]

Azata level two spell "Rejuvenating Poem": Removes all fatigue and exhaustion from the party.
So yes, if you have no other spellcasting the attack spells areng going to be that great, but giving a non magic user some buffs is always useful. Even it's only so that your dedicated casters have more spell slots available.
And quite a lot of the mythic spells are stronk.

[Isseus]

Originally posted by Draken:

Azata level two spell "Rejuvenating Poem": Removes all fatigue and exhaustion from the party.
So yes, if you have no other spellcasting the attack spells areng going to be that great, but giving a non magic user some buffs is always useful. Even it's only so that your dedicated casters have more spell slots available.
And quite a lot of the mythic spells are stronk.

At trickster spell level one (I got it at character level 8) I can summon a pony.

A pony.

[PopsurSocks]

I'm playing a full Fighter. At Mythic Rank 3 I got level 6 spellcaster in Divine Spells from picking Angel. I can see how if I was already a caster, this would be pretty useless, but having access to Divine Favor on my pure Fighter is not too bad tbh.

On a mostly unrelated note: I do wish Demon had more Rage per day or less things tied to it. :)

[Tim, the Enchanter]

I understand the RP reasons for why only certain classes can merge spellbooks but it is not consistent and is just frustrating mechanics wise. There are divine casters that can't merge with angel at all, similar with arcane casters that cant merge with lich. Then the issues of other paths having no option to merge books, even for ones that make total sense like Bard and Azata. Also, azata bards can combine their total rounds of performance available but azata skalds can't? Lots of inconsistencies for this totally rigid RP mechanic.

Would be way more enjoyable to play, replay, and try more unique builds for mythic paths if any caster was just allowed to merge spellbook with any mythic path that has, in-story, chosen to give powers to your character.

[prof_pessimist]

Originally posted by Tim, the Enchanter:

I understand the RP reasons for why only certain classes can merge spellbooks but it is not consistent and is just frustrating mechanics wise. There are divine casters that can't merge with angel at all, similar with arcane casters that cant merge with lich. Then the issues of other paths having no option to merge books, even for ones that make total sense like Bard and Azata. Also, azata bards can combine their total rounds of performance available but azata skalds can't? Lots of inconsistencies for this totally rigid RP mechanic.

Would be way more enjoyable to play, replay, and try more unique builds for mythic paths if any caster was just allowed to merge spellbook with any mythic path that has, in-story, chosen to give powers to your character.

I agree, the combining of spell books needs to be reexamined.

[CHAO$$$]

They're not outdated if you dont already have them.
if you run sword saint trickster theres gonna be overlap.

If you run slayer/ranger you suddenly have access to mirror image which you could never have otherwise.

[Dekent]

Don't know about trickster but the angel spells are amazing, fortress of the faithfull is overpowered as hell combined with greater enduring spells.

[Isseus]

Originally posted by Dekent:

Don't know about trickster but the angel spells are amazing, fortress of the faithfull is overpowered as hell combined with greater enduring spells.

Is it a level 1 spell?

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by Isseus:

There's a huge problem with the mythic spells that the mythic paths give you: They're outdated the moment you get them. I just got a new mythic rank as a trickster, and got my amazing lvl 3 spells. I can now use a weaker version of greater invisibility and stuff. The sad part is: I can already cast the actual greater invisibility spell. And have been for 7 levels. That's right, I just unlocked those amazing lvl 3 spells at level 15. And I can't even add them to my class's actual spell list, I'm limited to those sad separate slots that the trickster gets.

Even if I wasn't a full caster, those spells would still be useless, with the added salt in the wound that I wouldn't have the caster level or spell penetration to actually use them, because those spells, once again, are based on a far lower caster class than my character. When even a paladin is a stronger spellcaster than a mythic trickster, you done goofed.

Suggestion: Make the fisrt mythic spells available far earlier, the moment you get your first mythic levels and pick the alignment, and not when you pick your actual mythic class. Now all the work you've done on making all those fun spells go to waste because they're useless when you finally get them.

Most of trickster spellbook are jokes. Not "omg this is so bad, is it a joke" but just downright jokes, and that's kinda fine? It's not a caster mythic, spells are there as half support half flavour. Then there's the third half, which is ridiculously OP.

1:
Pony is a 1 HD pony with stats to match.
2:
Bear's Grace is a simple -8 dex. You probably have better things to do with your actions. It's not bad on paper, but I never got around to actually using it.
Fish Missile is a ranged touch that sickens - a non-elemental sneak attack delivery unaffected by SR. Used it quite a bit until I put a point into ascendant fire. Sadly affected by DR.
Beer elemental is a joke.
3:
Breath of Money is a fine cone? Again, no SR and no element so it goes around much of spell defences and the damage is fine enough.
Glorious Beard is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ OP and is the reason why I never used any other spell from this tier.
I imagine Almost Greater Invisibility is super useful if you're not already a caster with 4th level arcane stuff.
Another Beer Elemental, another joke.
4:
Greasly Bear is a regular bear that appears in a puddle of grease. A joke, since the bear's reflex is trash so it promptly falls over, dies in one hit, and does not even leave the grease behind since the puddle goes away.
Large Beer Elemental. A joke. Use this level for actual Greater Invisibility or metamagic other spells into it.
5:
Microscopic Proportions is OP.
Phantasmal Healer is a joke.
Rain of Halberds delivers sneak attack in an aoe without Arcane Trickster capstone while, again, ignoring SR and elemental resists. OP. Sadly affected by DR.
All Beer Elementals are jokes.
6:
I imagine Charm Whatever would be better if I had taken points raising Enchantment DCs. Seems strong, never used it since I'd rather kill instead.
Recraational Pit is just a pit spell. A joke, but as good as any other pit.
Elder Beer Elemental is still a joke.
Perpetually Annoyed Wizard is a hilarious joke. LET HIM FINISH HIS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ COFFEE!
7:
Ray of Halberds is hilarious. It delivers nine sneak attacks on a touch unaffected by SR and elemental resists. Pop a Sense Vitals for 15d6 sneak and laugh all the way. Sadly affected by DR.
Hog of Desolation is a 40HD omnicidal pig. <3
Trick of Fate is beyond OP. Need a good roll for Lexicon? Don't worry, always 20. Want Aruesh to kill that demon lord in one turn? Don't worry, always 20, she now sent seven 180dmg arrows in its face. I want to slap hogs and rays around but this one is too good not to use.

[wise]

That is unfortunate but not universal my lvl. 12 Witch now has lvl. 8 spells because of it