Enemies with arbitrary stats

[Pit Wizard]

Playing a second character, and at level 6 I just came across a couple of "plagued smilodons" at Moondance Meadow that were having no trouble at all hitting an AC of 30, so I got curious and checked out their stats. These regular-looking undead smilodons have a strength score of THIRTY-FIVE. What?!? For reference in the tabletop game, a CR 20 Balor has 35 strength. A CR 17 Old Red Dragon which is Gargantuan size has 35 strength. How in the hell did these things end up with stats like this? I don't mind fighting tough enemies, but at least give me a reason why they're so crazy strong.

[Zuul]

I mean, a base, regular old medium sized Smilodon is Str 23. If I remember right those Smilodons are large which is a +8 str adjustment so Str 31. Not sure what template would be appropriate, but even a zombie would be another 2 Str.

I’m sure the stat blocks are all sorts of wrong, but that Str would be pretty much appropriate for an upsized undead Smilodon.

[Pogey-Bait]

Yeah I just killed them on Core, but they got Seelah. Poor Seelah.

[Viper]

Some people just don't get how these games work. 35 so what. What does that give them an extra 3-4 dmg. Your not a God in these kinds of games. Often the enemies have higher stats than you. Stats are far form everything. Abilities strategy and the feats you take are more powerful.

[Zuul]

Originally posted by Viper:

Some people just don't get how these games work. 35 so what. What does that give them an extra 3-4 dmg. Your not a God in these kinds of games. Often the enemies have higher stats than you. Stats are far form everything. Abilities strategy and the feats you take are more powerful.

That would be an extra +12 to hit and +12 damage. A truly horrifying amount of extra. But yes…an extra 3 or 4.

[Pogey-Bait]

Originally posted by Viper:

Some people just don't get how these games work. 35 so what. What does that give them an extra 3-4 dmg. Your not a God in these kinds of games. Often the enemies have higher stats than you. Stats are far form everything. Abilities strategy and the feats you take are more powerful.

Actually you are kind of a God in this game, aren't you?

[Viper]

Originally posted by Zuul:

Originally posted by Viper:

Some people just don't get how these games work. 35 so what. What does that give them an extra 3-4 dmg. Your not a God in these kinds of games. Often the enemies have higher stats than you. Stats are far form everything. Abilities strategy and the feats you take are more powerful.

That would be an extra +12 to hit and +12 damage. A truly horrifying amount of extra. But yes…an extra 3 or 4.

12 damage if it hits. and you think that is horrifying. ..lol

[Hobocop]

These Smilodons are one of the worst offenders to be sure. There's even a Pack Leader variant that has 50 Strength later in the game. I can only manage that with buff stacking and a full Mythic Path behind me and this random cat is walking around that swole as their normal state of being.

Originally posted by Viper:

Originally posted by Zuul:

That would be an extra +12 to hit and +12 damage. A truly horrifying amount of extra. But yes…an extra 3 or 4.

12 damage if it hits. and you think that is horrifying. ..lol

And then you realize it's a Smilodon and they have 5+ natural attacks at their full attack bonus wailing away on you every round.

[Lightning]

Originally posted by Viper:

Originally posted by Zuul:

That would be an extra +12 to hit and +12 damage. A truly horrifying amount of extra. But yes…an extra 3 or 4.

12 damage if it hits. and you think that is horrifying. ..lol

Yeah wait till he hits the later acts

Playful darkness in act 4 crit my main tank with 45 AC for like 100 in one swipe and it hits literally every second and has no pause basically lol

[Viper]

I suggest you people who complain about the game turn down the difficulty. Owlcat has made a story mode for you..

[Zuul]

Originally posted by Viper:

Originally posted by Zuul:

That would be an extra +12 to hit and +12 damage. A truly horrifying amount of extra. But yes…an extra 3 or 4.

12 damage if it hits. and you think that is horrifying. ..lol

12 extra damage per hit on top of the damage dice, across, I believe, 6 attacks each with a +60% hit chance from Str.

Yes, at a level when your only real meaningful defense is displacement and your entire health pool is around 80, there is a non-trivial chance your best tank gets taken down by a single full-round attack.

That’s pretty horrifying for that level.

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by Viper:

12 damage if it hits. and you think that is horrifying. ..lol

...?
Those smilodons get 6 attacks. If your AC isn't enough to catch at least 2 of those that's an additional 72 damage per round going onto a level 6-8 party in which your frontline has anywhere from ~70-90 health. From strength alone not counting base value. And there's multiple of them. 3 to be exact. If you can shave off at least 4 hits from each smilodon in that encounter you still take 36. Lay on hands heals 3d6 at that point for a total of 18. With a bad dice roll per round you just lose.

They make a hell of a lot more sense when you see an entire squad of them later on in chapter 3 than they do when you meet them in Chapter 2. Your tank has to have an impeccable build to avoid getting shaved in half. Which obviously means not following recommended.

I don't think they're particuarly egregious given your tank at that point can be just invulnerable. But there recommended build order, were you to use it, is in no way equipped to deal with them even on normal.

[Pit Wizard]

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the "difficulty". As I said I don't mind having tough fights. What I object to is a normal-looking creature that has insane stats for no reason. I GM'ed Pathfinder 1st edition for years, so when I see an encounter like that I just feel like the "GM" is screwing with me.

[Rosh+]

Originally posted by Pit Wizard:

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the "difficulty". As I said I don't mind having tough fights. What I object to is a normal-looking creature that has insane stats for no reason. I GM'ed Pathfinder 1st edition for years, so when I see an encounter like that I just feel like the "GM" is screwing with me.

The only way around some of the overtuned enemies is turn based and then stacking CC spells until the enemy falls over, unfortunately.

Also kinda lame that Monks are the best tanks, but that's just Pathfinder, apparently.

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by Rosh+:

Originally posted by Pit Wizard:

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the "difficulty". As I said I don't mind having tough fights. What I object to is a normal-looking creature that has insane stats for no reason. I GM'ed Pathfinder 1st edition for years, so when I see an encounter like that I just feel like the "GM" is screwing with me.

The only way around some of the overtuned enemies is turn based and then stacking CC spells until the enemy falls over, unfortunately.

Also kinda lame that Monks are the best tanks, but that's just Pathfinder, apparently.

Yeah that's pathfinder but you're actively pushed towards that or having pet tanks[i.imgur.com] given that they get way more AC for far less investment.
The only thing stopping you from running 5 mercs all of whom have pets is that Mercs point buy is comically awful this time around.

[Nazkai]

Yeah on normal those undead cats are a bit ridiculous for sure